BS: The Largest darkest Mystery

Subject: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 01:15 PM

The largest darkest mystery
Three years ago I set out to discover the largest darkest mystery that has been called dark energy.
A Noble prize even went out to the person who claimed to discover the phenomenon as a result of calculating that the cosmos is accelerating in its expansion. Within one year I had mentally pictured the forces and fields in the cosmos in a thought experiment that would explain dark energy. The thought experiment was like imagining squeezing a ten dimensional balloon and seeing where it bulges as a result. In Photoshop, I demonstrated how the relativity of time moving at different speeds throughout the universe is responsible for the apparent acceleration and that actual acceleration is only an artifact like an optical illusion. The picture I posted showed the cosmos on a mega scale like the sponge like filaments in which large areas of empty space abounds like bubbles in a fluid. The light areas were brightest and the densest areas were dark, all bound in a Klien bottle curved space. I was hoping to show the relativity of time itself but no one who commented got it.

By year two I described that the universe would measure at about 18 billion years if averaged on the relative empty regions alone and 14.2 billion years when averaging both sparse and dense areas including black holes which coalesce over time and have a time speed of no time movement at all. I discovered we have the technology to measure the difference between the dispersion of black holes long ago compared to now that would proved exactly how much the relativity of time and and gravity has changed time across the universe in a relative way. I mention that gravity that can not be explained is still being fudged in the calculations that physicists get stuck on when multiple infinities disrupt their equations. Even Einstein did it with his cosmological constant that he would stick into equations to avoid getting those nasty repeating infinites. No one 'here' commented or discussed the finding so I guess they did not get it.

Now it is year three and someone else gets it. So far it is only one other cosmologist all the way over in New Zealand, but now there are at least two who can see it.
What this discovery means is that we can cancel the current misperception of dark energy and correct all the measurements of all class 1a supernova that we have always used to measure the universe. It means we have a clearer understanding of large scale gravity and the uncertainty of quantum gravity.

It may also influence our thinking about dark matter which was made up out of tin air to correct the amount of gravity that is measured being 90% more than the observable universe can account for. Certain particles like the Higgs and neutrino can exist in many smaller dimensions and not just our own 3Dverse. Perhaps dark energy's gravity signature is only the smaller fractal repetitions over the ten smaller dimensions, which could add a lot of gravitational forces, perhaps 90% more.

But not to get ahead of ourselves, so far the question of dark energy in my way of thinking, is solved for the ages as long term knowledge. That the relativity of time has been left out of equations will help the number crunchers move toward more truthful fertile fields to make better measurements and perhaps one day help see into the center of black holes and the changing structure of the universe as a whole. For the 3rd time I invite any questions or remarks you may have about this discovery and how it can be empirically proved using the Keplar and M map instruments.

Basicly the illusion of dark energy acceleration is due to time slowing and speeding in different regions of space and how the empty areas distort the observations that time only makes the universe appear to accellerate. There is no anti gravity causing the phenomenon but rather the simple relativity of time which is determined by the amount of gravity.

Don Hakman

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 02:08 PM

Don, I have messaged you off-thread.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 03:16 PM

Scientists who will have to amend their view of the cosmos after taking into account the relative behavior of time and gravity are the big bang inflation theory advocates.
My model shows that there was no sudden miraculous inflation of the universe but rather very very slow time during the time in which density was still so dense that a smooth expansion progressed steadily instead of somehow instantly.

You see when inflation theory scientists say that a billion billionth of a second after the big bang explosion there was enough cooling that particles like quarks could exist...their mistake is that they are trying to calculate using Earth time which is a low density time much faster than near black hole gravity time which is super slow.

Not only are the inflation theory advocates going to have to change their minds but also many of the big bang theorists.

Using time relativity thinking the universe would gradually speed up clocks as the cosmos expanded. Certain areas may have had half the density of black holes but eventually became less dense as they traveled apart.

Early in the baby universe massive stars created first generation black holes with plenty of mass nearby to be incredibly large. Today they are seen as quasars bursting gamma rays out their poles.

The teenage universe made more black holes and those hung out together and sometimes pulled other black holes into themselves.

Our universe is making more black holes relative to early times.
With an accelerating formation of black holes today the regions between ultimate density and ultimate emptiness is growing in contrast. The universe seen from a mega perspective now looks like connective tissue with many black holes at the center of the massive globules of matter and only a few along the strands that stretch accross emptiness until they encounter another large massive collection of more black holes usually at the center of galaxies in groups of hundreds or thousands of other galaxies.

The trend seems to be more contrast between isolated massive groupings and larger areas of relative emptiness.

These different aspects of the way time works over the course of an aging changing universe must be taken into account to understand and then man manipulate these cosmic forces to our advantage. The science fiction concept of the Romulan singularity drive begins to make sense with a control over time over large distance along with a bubble in space space time gravity to "warp" time and distance.

Physicists who resist the simple relative space time concepts I promote are stuck in the idea that all things resemble each other everywhere with a uniform sameness so that a proton here and now is identical to a proton someplace else in time. People are looking for a wrinkle in that assumption to show that universal laws may change over the course of time in our universe. When it comes to the speed of time it certainly does. Some theorists even dispel the entire idea that time is a dimension (relative to gravity) or may even exist at all!

I believe time is very real and exists at in its entirety relative to past present and future to somewhere and somewhere at all times.
Speed and direction at near light speeds relate to increased mass which then relates to increased gravity that affects time.
As Prof Greene describes his slice of time thought experiments you can watch a traveler go into Earths relative past or relative future by merely changing the speed and direction they make at relative speeds.

To communicate directly to the past or future with entangled particles is what I am now exploring. Of course the current thinking is that it is impossible to transmit information via spooky action at a distance (entangled particles) but I think I see a way past this despite the idea that it is verbotten.

If a time machine is not in the cards the next best thing is a "rime Radio" that can can tune into the past of future at command.

PS this would require physically dropping of one of a pair of entangled particles on a place far far away and taking its win with you to the far corner of somewhen and some where else. This would be time consuming scut work for sure, but once in place instant communication could ensue, barring technical difficulties

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 07:53 PM

Don... most of us here are not really qualified to comment on the details of those ideas.

I love reading about it and following the science.. as far as it goes... but there are so many variables in even thinking about multi-dimensional possibilities and particle physics, that I can't hope to follow more than the superficial debates.

I DO tend to worry about ANY theory that has "I believe that..." as a major component. We need ideas & theories that explore all the concepts in order to address the ultimate nature of reality..... and coming up with a succinct way to describe it is a goal.... but as Alfred North Whitehead said: "Strive for simplicity- but learn to mistrust it."

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:36 PM

What you're talking about, Donuel, is incomprehensible to at least 99% of the people alive today...including me. ;-)

You may be right in what you say. All I know is, it's beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:56 PM

That's not the Largest Darkest Mystery; the Largest Darkest Mystery is still WHAT WAS IN THE BOX .

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 03:59 AM

The largest darkest mystery is what the feck they put in Greggs sausage rolls.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:18 AM

Is this the same theory?

David Wiltshire, a theoretical cosmologist from the University of Canterbury in New Zealand. In 2007 he worked out a solution to Einstein's general relativity, which far from being radical, he claims is "radically conservative".

This is because, unlike other cosmological theories, it does not require altered gravity or other exotic factors. And it doesn't need dark energy.

According to general relativity, the presence of mass slows the rate at which time passes. So, for example, clocks on satellites tick very slightly faster than those on Earth.

Wiltshire suggests that the distribution of matter in the universe leads to larger differences in the flow of time than previously considered. It is this oversight, he claims, that leads to the false conclusion that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate: "Such acceleration is fundamentally not there; it is an illusion brought on by trying to fit an over-simplified model of the universe."

Wiltshire's theory also accounts for another quirk. According to the Standard Model, the universe has not always expanded at a uniform rate. After an initial period of rapid expansion called 'inflation', it slowed down. Then, approximately 6.3 billion years ago, the expansion started to speed up again.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 01:55 PM

Everything is POV

Rates of inflation are merely seen by us as going at different accelerating speeds when all that is happening is time moving at different speeds as the amounts of mass clump differently as the universe ages and expands.


Bill wrote
"most of us here are not really qualified to comment on the details of those ideas.

You are great Bill but that is BS BS BS ! @ !   You would be amazed how jack assed little cosmologists know about the cosmos this very minute. Even an uniformed question has merit and more possibilities.
Cosmology should not be thought of as sancrosanct or well understood by anyone. We are at the ape finds bones to hit with stage, relativly and cosmoligicly speaking.

The truth is that we currently have such a pathetically limited idea of what is going on in our universe/multiverse that the seeming discoveries are interpreted mostly without evidence and we make up excuses to make sense of what we can or cannot see or measure.

Aspects of relativity have been tested but almost everything else in cosmology is an imaginary process of "maybe something like this is happening". Some guesses are better than others. My prior idea of time variations from gravity distribution can be quantified and measured.

In other words cosmology is a game anyone can and should play, from early philosophers to sci fi writers to astrophysicists forcing square 3D pegs into hyper dimensional holes.

Stuff that is simply made up, (assumptions made without real evidence): cosmic strings, branes, multiverses, quantum gravity, 10 extra dimensions, dark matter, dark energy, even discreet particals and waves etc.

The real answer to 99% of all cosmological questions is "dunno".

The whole question of why galaxies apparently weigh over 80% more than we can see(has more gravity)**This discovery was made by a woman 37 years ago. This is the reason why some people invented the term dark matter to account of all the extra gravity.
Anyone here could think about what might account for all this discovered gravity. The current idea that dark matter is even matter can be challenged. One could imagine that the extra "weight" is from different but infinite possible states of the visible galaxy stored in stacked dimensionally in smaller and smaller fractals of possible parallel universe galaxies. This was an idea I made up just now as an example and does not mean I believe it or have any ego invested in such speculation.
Perhaps dark matter is a region in which our regular matter galaxies&black hole reaches down to the substrate of the Brane fabric of the cosmos and transmits some of the Brane's immense gravity (membrane of the universe) in and through to our visible universe as where a bubble touches a much bigger bubble. (another idea created just now)



Each of us should learn to think in more and different possibilities than just accepting the current temporary fudged excuse of what someone else is suggesting of what is going on. Cosmology is a great sandbox/paint box to practice.

I spent a great deal of time qualifying the concept of what dark energy is and felt a good deal of satisfaction that it can be verified. Permanent discoveries/truths are rare and feeling of discovery is amazing.
New ideas are simply fun.

Dollars to donuts Bill I bet that anyone here could create a workable model of what dark matter could very well be. A simple explanation has a very good chance of working. Cosmologists have the habit of calculating themselves out of more reasonable interpretations.
Some even believe that only math itself exists or that there is no such thing as time. As I said you would be amazed at how crude a state the science of cosmology is in. We are spending money to find a dark matter partical but we have had no luck. Sure a neutrino might be detected ever couple years deep underground but the partical search is going nowhere.


Everyone has heard of how a unified theory of everything is stymied because we still cannot compute the laws of quantum gravity.
Now lets take a simple approach to solving it right now...

Anyone who has had a thought has noticed the very big resembles the very small. Today we can see in the very small an enormous amount of uncertainly, but very little gravity. On the very big scale there is a bit of uncertainly and immense gravitational forces.*

Given just this *information and a decent vocabulary of the standard model, a workable view of general and special relativity as well as new measurements we have only recently made...I believe a human being is capable of solving what mathematicians got stuck on, and find a more unified theory better than Albert, Brian or Joe Hill ever dreamed of. I am sure that if all kids in school had all the knowledge expressed in just the Morgan Freeman's science series 'Through the wormhole', we would have new cosmic break throughs in the thousands inside of 10 years. Never be afraid to dream, to learn or even learn to dream. It may hold the symbolic answer to be expanded consciously later.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 02:00 PM

uninformed

not uniformed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 03:30 PM

I don't understand it - but I'll bring my popcorn and soda pop.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 05:46 PM

Don, have you done any artwork based on these ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 08:54 PM

Yes I did, and believe you must have remembered that I mentioned it some time ago. Perhaps it was part of the initial visualizing process that comes easy while a succinct verbal description is a greater challenge, at least for me. Come to think about it, I have a history of painting something years before it happens like the 16 ft. oil of two sky scraper towers burning with explosion, a tidal wave, tornado, an afixed tiny fighter plane, anguished facial skies and many streaks of pinkish hands and feet rising to the heavens. It was horrific in orange green purple and pinks but it sold. The collectors in TX e mailed me a week after 9-11 to exclaim what they suddenly saw in the painting after having it for four years. It was begun 5 years before it sold on ebay and went from Buffalo to Boston and finished in Wash. DC.

2 years ago I illustrated the symbolic cosmos and posted it here. (not actual size) ha. It was not well received.
The lightest areas were areas of the fastest time and lowest mass.
The dark areas were highest mass and slowest time. The realistic sponge like organic nature of the visible cosmos was curved along an invisible substrate (sub space/Brane) and for cuteness sake inverted upon itself like a Klien bottle which was just a fanciful symbol in place of not knowing the boundaries of the cosmos. Also there was a white dove structure flying away from a relative empty area toward density which was a joke about time flies. The darkest area at black holes had at one spot two tiny stopped clocks saying that time stops at black holes but are still correct twice a day. It is cartoonishly colorful but elegant like art glass and does not obviously communicate anything about time distortion ideas. It needed a map legend like this to tell a viewer the idea in words.

I also made a 3D space painting 3 years ago of the underlying Brane of the cosmos with layered translucent silk with polished stones, paint, opals and micro diamonds, round multi colored reflective foils from DVD's to designate astronomical bodies. The large sphere of the sun made of translucent yellow stone I forget the name) was illuminated by parts of a LED flashlight. It is still just a space painting.
The earth and moon were painted stone spheres with appropriate shadows. The idea was to hint at a dimension of subspace in which everything else is stuck. A virtual invisible face at the bottom level was Asian and an intermediate layer was a hand. It did not photograph anything like it appears in life since a photo did not capture changeable colors and subtle deeper reflections. Oh yes it comes with two florescent black lights on each side that reflects UV painted details and silk layers below. I need to re attach the sun.

I've had plans for a multi layered glass painting made from an architectural storm window and plexiglass layers behind.
Then I could show the emerging multiverses visible only from the back.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 04:06 PM

What excites me most about the original hypothesis is that it is capable of being proved empiricaly right or wrong. So many postulations in cosmology can not be tested with our current technology.

Due to the fact that the rate of black hole formation is increasing over billions of years, over 1 a day, the density regions of stopped time is increasing and the expanses of empty space (faster relative) time) is growing larger in comparison. This is the reason why the measurement of the expansion of the universe is skewed which makes it seem to accelerate. Some of you will hear a gathering chorus in years to come about the revamping of the concept of dark energy. Meanwhile the guy who won a nobel prize

My next idea is to provide a workable premise to engineer a non locality radio which could be taken on a Mars mission which would allow instant communication with no time lag.
German scientists have been able to transmit quantum information in a way that had always been assumed to be impossible. This lends hope to also do the impossible regarding information transfer using non locality (spooky action at a distance). So far it hAlF works.

I just wanted to have some kind of time archive for the idea progression to be put in perspective and not just rant egotisticly about what a good boy am I, so I'll stop pestering the folk artists and make room for the posting nude, stoned and strumming threads.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 08:14 PM

You mentioned with approval a cosmologist in New Zealand apparently thinking along the same lines. A reference would be useful.

I've no idea whether any of this makes sense, but I am reminded of what JBS Haldane wrote once "I have no doubt that in reality the future will be vastly more surprising than anything I can imagine. Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 12:14 PM

you mean the universe is gay? now that really is queer

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 13 - 07:50 PM

I'm comfortable with ambiguity being right brained but I logically see simplicity in nature from the same kind of neuronal layering that leads to complexity in a repeatable and simple way to the nature of time being as flexible as space. Space can move faster than light, light can go at different relative speed depending upon the space it is in.   Near a time stopping black hole it is slow, in a virtual void it is fast. I can think of the interplay of time space and gravity a bit like imagining different scenarios on a see saw.

My idea is as simple as a bag of hammers.

My simple hypothesis is that our current guesses about dark energy regarding the universe expanding faster with acceleration. I believe that the perceived acceleration is like an optical illusion CREATED BY looking out from a relative dense area of space out into and through high time speed voids.

As the universe condenses into more black holes at an accelerating rate (over one a day now) there is a corresponding growth in the void areas. As the black holes are more numerous the void spaces are larger.

When the universe was young it was denser and time was at a snail's pace. There is no need for cosmologists to put in fudged numbers and create a fix called the inflation theory.

The true flexibility of time due to dense mass gravity or no gravity in empty space has caused our astronomers to measure the universe incorrectly as a Mercator map. They measure by spotting a type 1a supernova and measuring its brightness. Since they don't take into account the kinds of dense/no density space the light passed through those measurements are often wrong but close

I can copy and provide source info as recent as last year regarding the one cosmologist who sees as I do. All good ideas come to more than one person be it calculus or the radio. BTW My idea for an instant message radio that receives the signal of its twin radio instantly even if it 50 light years away could be very useful of we had an interplanetary space program.

Ideas of mine that went on to production: The electronic cochlear enhanced hearing aid-evolved into the cochlear implant. I got this idea after listening to a deaf guitarist. (The first one looked like a yamaka.
Clonal inject able myelin cells into spinal fluid, for nerve damaged MS patients- after meeting a severe victim of the disease.(treatment - not cure)

Cool pillow with weight activated compressor and cool tubing.

Sound enhancing foam for sound posted instruments, the soul post.
Tromboon. Trumbo.

Post hypnotic suggestion techniques with self actuated reinforcement.



As a kid: a canard airplane that never stalls and travels at highway speeds capable of heavy loads as slow as 50 mph. A five foot prototype flew with the smallest gas engine made. (Four times longer than wide)
I had the winning design of the Scientific American paper airplane contest.
The 1st and only street loge I ever saw.
A 360 degree horizontal landscape painting with constant rotating color change. Numerous school fads that went 'viral'... The strangest one was the mini pipe cleaner people kept in match boxes. (right before "trolls".

I am thinking of a foam carbon fiber material for instrument making that exceeds the capacities of wood in tone volume and indestructibility. Something 20 times acousticly better than fiberglass. I found that the most resonant acoustic materials are porous, light weight and has a specific stiffness (double bass excepted). Foam carbon fiber fits the bill for violins cellos guitars etc..
Also I want to make HD radios that have a feature to replay what I just missed like a dvr. The mini drives to do this are now obsolete and cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 05:06 AM


As the universe condenses into more black holes at an accelerating rate (over one a day now) there is a corresponding growth in the void areas. As the black holes are more numerous the void spaces are larger

Voids are not created by black hole formation.
To make a black hole requires a great density of matter, as in a collapsing super-giant star.

Galaxies have central black holes that do not swallow the galaxy and create a void.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 02:28 PM

Why 42?

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 04:19 PM

Don... had company and missed a couple days of posts and so missed your remark:"In other words cosmology is a game anyone can and should play, from early philosophers to sci fi writers to astrophysicists forcing square 3D pegs into hyper dimensional holes.

I see your point as it relates to your basic thesis, but I can't quite agree. In order for 'anyone' to be relevant in any useful way in such areas, there needs to be an easy way of sorting the 'just plain silly' from the 'totally crackpot' from the 'hey...that really sounds plausible'.

Don.. I don't know if you 'do' UseNet, but there is, in GoogleGroups and forums called alt.sci.physics.new-theories

In it you will find all of the above categories I mentioned... and more. Some of them have websites.. like http://jdkabc.blogspot.com/2012/05/occams-universe-cmbr-as-space.html or http://www.bibhasde.com/magmass.html

and ummm... this! (George Hammond has been on this group for years, shouting and declaiming. It is very difficult to decide whether he is a genius or....)

Reading posts to the group is something between exhilarating and laughable as you watch them nodding wisely in agreement or calling each other crazy.

When I said *I* am not qualified to sort it out, it is partly because I am ..ummm... bound, for want of a better word, to analytic, philosophic logic in evaluating the very language and thought structure used to propound these theories. My very being recoils from trying to enter the debate by embedding my own thoughts in the free-form bits of imagery required.
I am aware that many of the great ideas in Cosmology were ridiculed and not comprehended in their early stages, but all I can make myself do is to read, listen and look for substantive progress by those who DO have the fortitude and concepts to pursue it all.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 05:55 PM

Fonuel, the thing I don't understand...and I don't understand why the scientists don't understand it too, is that no matter what anyone traces back to being the existence of time, the generator of the cosmos, the reason it's all here, etc. etc. it is impossible to work out HOW the first particle, atom, black hole birth-baby actually ARRIVED in the first place?

THAT'S the bit I don't get.

No-one will *ever* truly be able to say HOW the Universe got here, when it started, why or how, because the answer is beyond anyone's comprehension or ability to actually prove.

Everything comes from somewhere, so if you decide you know the first thing which created The Everything, WHERE did The First Thing come from?

I used to ponder this when a child. I'd lie on the summer grass on hot, sunny days, staring at the clouds, making pictures of them and wondering, wondering, wondering...

I soon worked out that there were 'things out there' to which there would never be answers, because there weren't *supposed* to *be* answers in the first place....

Yes, I was a strange child... :0) lol

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 05:56 PM

Oh, bums..

Apologies, *D*onuel, NOT Fonuel..!

Mudcat, how I WISH you had an edit button...and a LIKE button...and...SMILIES!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 09:32 PM

"... there weren't *supposed* to *be* answers in the first place..."

Lizzie... that may just be the most profound comment on the thread.

I never understood why it was so important to most people to HAVE detailed answers. It would be interesting, but it's fun to look, even if there's no way to find.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 10:26 PM

No smilies please!! Or snarlies for that matter. Written language can do all that stuff, if we give it a chance.

Since it's pretty evident that the way the world works can only be expressed in ways that sound pretty crazy, it's a puzzle to know how it's possible to sort out the crazy that gets nearer to the truth from the crazy that goes nowhere.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Musket
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM

Interesting thread in that Donuel words his posts in a way that his interpretation of a theory are, to him, answers rather than supposition. My interest in such matters is not profoundly deep but hopefully deep enough to know that it is difficult to perceive such things by our perspective, hence the answers are there, we just can't tune into them just yet.

Quantum mechanics and astrophysics both test our sense of reality. From Bohr's description of an atom that has us imagining electrons as orbiting spheres, to imagining string theory without the use of string; we use analogy to help us understand and I doubt that is ultimately helpful.

Of course, when we test the limits of understanding, and even understanding of those who try to understand as part of their role, we reach a point where we have no further answer and then idiots take over and substutite superstition for no answer. The usual explanation has the word "god" in it somewhere, or the old priest trick of "there are some things..."

When people ask me why I am so dismissive of religious faith, it is this type of debate to which I refer. Where convenient false answers get in the way of discovery.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 12:56 PM

Amen..I mean I agree, Musket. This is related to what I describe as the human foible of naming something, then treating it as 'real' now that you can refer to it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 02:09 PM

The thing is though, it's only when you put a name to something that you can refer to it most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 12:00 PM

Lizzie, I do know and probably never will.

Keith, The relationship between black holes and empty voids is that as certain regions contract around areas of ultimate density and time stoppage, the surrounding areas of relative nothingness are relatively larger. It's easy to picture. It is trickier to measure.

Bill I will look into cosmic communities for ideas, but not for agreement.

I fully recognize my idea that "dark energy is an illusion" is a hypothesis.

This hypothesis can be proven wrong or right with the uses of the M telescope and the Keplar;

Looking far away with a universe mapping M scope we will be able to measure the rate of formation of black holes and compare it to rates relatively close today. IF they are significantly different rates then the relative time distortions can be calculated. By comparing a 3D map of the early universe to one 10 billion years older we could map the time distorting voids changing shapes over time. We could update distance measurements of using the type 1 a super nova brightness scale that may be incorrect due to relative time distortion. They may be closer or farther than we thought most likely at the same rate as the acceleration of the universe hypothesis assumptions.

Even the Keplar scope will help measure differing gravitational lensing of different regions of space. (the more lesning the more dense) Although considered relative smooth, the universe does have regions of much less density compared to regions that are more dense and seem to be attracted to an even greater density. (the great attractor, which may be an aspect of or clue to a nearby multiverse structure, or not, but it is immensely gravitational)

What would make these measurements perfectly simple would be a triangular measurement 4 or 5 billion light years apart.
But alas we are looking from one point, Earth.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 12:54 PM

Dark Matter video - the other dark meaty mystery

Note that the mystery began with a woman Vera wanting to look at the rotation of galaxies since nothing was known about their movement. She discovered a galaxy mores like a phonograph record, all together at the same speed. Our tiny solar system doesn;t move like that at all but at slower speeds as one moves out from the center sun. Its like our tiny solar system had different laws of motion than galaxies, like atomic orbits behave differently than solar systems.

We assumed from the start that the galaxy spins in inison becasue of extra gravity from matter we can not see, 95% more matter than visible matter.

What is this strange gravity mass that is an invisible 95% of the universe? weakly interacting particals like neutrios? The other 10 dimensions of string theory? gegions in which the substrate of space (Brane) is closer allowing its gravity to seep into ours?

Amos was first to post on this site the bullet galaxies which showed two galaxies in collision while it's invisible gravities behaved differently than visible matter.
It does not look like the invisible 95% is a fog of mini black holes. It seems to be dimensionally seperate implying other dimensions may have different values of gravity which even when weakily interacting the gravity is huge! 95% huge. But on the sclae of our solar system where is it? Are the planets larger in mass that we think? Nope, moons and asteroids obey Newtonian laws.


Dark energy is easier to describe as an illusion of space time distortion in comparison to what the heck is dark matter.

Dark matter is way darker a mystery than the "illusion of dark energy".

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 01:02 PM

If you like a good mystery, fine.
attempting to solve a mystery is not everyone's cup of tea.

To say,"its not meant to be solved" sounds to me like supersition or intentional blissful _________.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 03:14 PM

Well, "its not meant to be solved" does not necessarily invoke superstition - as if 'something was intentionally preventing' us from getting there.
I take it as just an admission that 'solving' the riddle of creation and first cause, or even demonstrating that there was no 'beginning' in the usual sense, may be beyond our capabilities. We can speculate about acquiring new capabilities thru science(s) that we cannot even name right now, but almost all our conceptual referents are phrased in ways that don't really cope with the idea of "before there was Being". Saying "We don't understand it, therefore God did it." is just as weak an answer as string theory and/or multiple universes: in that 'God' and 'more than one universe' are similar terms linguistically.

I LIKE the idea of looking at ways to solve all mysteries.... which is different from expecting that it must be possible just because we want it badly.

(wow, it's tricky just finding language that avoids most of the ambiguities of language! :>)

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 03:56 PM

pictures are just as trickey.

In mathmatics when presented with an answer that is a series of added infinities, experts will claim that the result is obviously a mistatke.
If we suppose it isn't for a minute, asking which of the infinities was the first infinity is as meaningful as 'whoo made de first atom?'

Going from a revision of the ideas about dark energy, to dark matter to the origin of a first universe is a series of increasingly complex mysteries.

be that as it may

allI'msayinis

A revised look at dark energy if accurate would bunk Inflation theory, the age of universe would also be revised, even space navigation would be viewed with a stronger emphasis on time navigation. The most far out application of using relative time understanding could be applied to quantum gravity which as you know seems to be the missing link of a theory to everything.

Now that might be important to humankind as well as recalcitrant "neighbors".

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 04:31 PM

Here is a you tube I found today that speaks of everything and more regarding cosmology, everything except my contention that dark energy is not what the nobel prize winners thought. (also the expansion theory is also like an optical illusion)

a general overview of time

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 05:50 PM

Doesn't the macro view of matter distribution in the universe resemble the dispersal of neurons in the brain? cool huh.

Perhaps the the "deepest thing I can say is
"Our right brain is Eienstein pertaining to logical geometry
and our left brain is the quantum brain that deals with the peculiar nature of time and the uncertainties of real interactions" while they both continually rewrite our experience over riding either the right or the left to provide the best coherence.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 06:23 PM

I'll try to watch that later... but what is daunting is the list of 'related' videos on the right side of the screen. In the internet age, everyone can post theories and videos that would take years to even sort thru, much less evaluate thoroughly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 07:48 PM

The lecture is a virtual summation of our current cosmological knowledge. Honestly I have total comprehension of all the concepts until the lecture reaches the Yang Mills model.

The Brian Greene video has a magnificent demonstration of the simmultaneous existence of now, past and future, 4 mintes 25 seconds in. Brian Greene stretches your mind about time Short and sweet.


As for the big bang I don't buy it as creation. It is just an observation of one particular birth of one spacetime universe.
The multi verse explains much more, perhaps dark matter itself.

IF a new universe is birthed into its own discreet space, it would do so probably from the largest black holes at the center of various galaxies. This is where dark matter is best inferred as adding much more gravity to a galaxy. If a galaxy is a mother that birthed a new universe from its black hole then the gravity from the baby universe may be close enough to leak into our space dimension. I have thought this way for over 22 years but I have yet to think of a way to prove it by thought experiment or math.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 08:06 PM

I need to correct my claim that a new view of time would rebuke the entire inflationay universe model. I actual believe it would actually revise and correct only part of the inflationary model.

The inflationary model has to do with the big bang being born of a quantum fluctuation of gravity under exotic circumstances where gravity sort of goes in reverse. The revision I propose would occur at the point where the universe suddenly and impossibly grows beyond comprehension to the incredibly large in "no time".

To get a more realistic view of time, remember time is not a force but is an emergent effect dependant upon gravity, speed and relative observation. Think of how you would feel if you were hit by a powerful gravitational time wave vs you riding a gravitational time wave.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 13 - 09:31 PM

It just struck me that the dark matter mystery could have a simple AND a visible solution. All we need to do is trust Al.

Suppose a mathematician calculated all the angular momentum speeds of each spinning body in a galaxy and added the orbital velocity speeds of every object in a galaxy and added that to the mass of of the entire galaxy rotating and the speed of the entire galaxy moving relative to its neighbors in a super group and the expansion rate of the universe and finally add all the non luminous rocks, mini black holes, mega black holes and gas ...

As we know the faster something moves the more mass it has and the slower time goes. Add all the mass added by all the various speeds and the dragging gravitational vortex* that drags along with it and YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADD A HELLUVA LOT OF MISSING MASS to the visible galaxy. I doubt if speed generated mass would be enough to account for why galaxies rotate in unison but at least we have the means to prove or disprove this off the cuff hypothesis. But maybe it can account for the missing mass.   We need to do tedious work on a galactic scale to really know for sure.

Simple Einstein geometry solutions work well on the mega scale but the tiny is anti intuitive in comparison to the large. Could it be we have forgotten to add the motion of spin and orbit and all relative speed and expansion, which all increase mass, to the measuring of the weight of the universe??? Sounds like a typical human mistake to me.
It would be fun to prove a simple solution but I kinda prefer the sci fi whimsical notion of invisible mysterious mass.

*a predicted Einstein vortex effect only conclusively proven via a 20 year NASA experiment last year.


Einstein was so correct that when he thought he made a mistake since his equation called for our universe to be expanding so he fudged it out with a made up cosmological constant. Turned out his mistake was that his equation was right from the get go. He was brilliant even in his mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Feb 13 - 05:36 PM

Not at all my field of science, but didn't Amelia Fraser-McKelvie's work at Monash last year find (provisionally of course) the "missing matter"?

Subject: RE: BS: The Largest darkest Mystery
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:04 PM

I see she is merely 22 and not a career researcher.

See, this is a game that anyone can play. Cosmology is in a slump right now after the boson was found and string theory having no testable experiments.

When we democratize science we expand the potential discoveries exponentially.

By the way some of the filaments could be cosmic strings with a gravity inside so strong that it makes photons orbit the string and not shine in our universe. They were possibly formed at the big bang and would seemingly have only one dimension which makes it impossible so far to see.

I have all the names of the scientists I reffered to at the start including the like minded thinker. David Wiltshire a physicist at the University of Canterbury in New Zealand alson believes that dark energy is so mysterious because it is an illusion. WWe differ slightly on the modality of the illusion however.

When only the big grant big institutions have access to the machines and data what we will get are findings limited to the equipment they have and the yes man committees and grad students they control.