BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama

Subject: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 11:03 PM

Personally, I think he nailed every single major issue, domestically and diplomatically6.

An impeccable presentation of the State of the Union. Lucid and compassionate and politically savvy.

That's my two cents' worth.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 11:21 PM

I double your money- I fully agree.

I was much less impressed with Rubio's response for the GOP.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: gnu
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 11:26 PM

He didn't mention the Manatees or the Dutch overlords even once. Whassup?

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 11:30 PM

He did mention you by name, though, Gary. I thought that was a nice touch.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:44 AM

One thing bothered me in the SOTU. Obama committed to the Simpson-Bowles model of social security rate inflation. This "chained" rate is significantly lower than the rate of inflation as experienced by real people.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:17 AM

He did what a pathological liar does best. Didn't scrambleate the words like Bush did though, and I kind of miss that.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:56 AM

I was out on errands and didn't get to watch, and when I went to the usual news sources all I got was talking heads who wanted to tell me what they thought they heard rather than what he said.

A search specifically for "SOTU Transcript" did easily find several places where the transcript was posted and easily pulled down to file.

At only ten pages (as I saved it) it was short as such things go, but a first reading didn't suggest much that was left out. It will take more than one pass to pick the nits, of course; but it's easier to make a DIY project of figuring out what he meant than to try to clear the hype from what all the commentators added in their "reports" of what was said.

John

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:22 AM

I am reading the transcript (I ought to be working) and will comment as I go.

I'd quarrel with "this generation of heroes has made the United States safer and more respected around the world." It seems to me that for example the Algeria debacle, the continuing drone attacks in Pakistan and elsewhere, and the failure to support a secular state in Syria (a vile secular state but at least not a theocracy) and the spread of failed states in Africa leave the US less safe and indeed less respected.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:33 AM

I'd quarrel with "a country that leads the world in educating its people". That may be so of a tiny minority of the best students at the best universities, but school-level provision for those in the poorest communities is at third-world level, and the impression at least from the media is of schools where bullying thrives and indeed is almost encouraged in the name of freedom of speech, academic betterment is ridiculed by street culture, the weakest are left to go to the wall and those in the greatest mental trouble receive neither counselling nor help - and meanwhile teachers are held in contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:37 AM

I am suspicious of "companies that choose to stay in America get hit with one of the highest tax rates in the world". I quite simply doubt its truth.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:48 AM

I do not believe that the US will treat "Muslims and Jews" equally. The system locks the US into support for Israel to the detriment of Palestinians.

I see only marginal tinkering with the corrupt Washington lobbying system.

I see nothing about the unworkable current filibuster rules.

I see nothing about the right to live a life free from threat of violence, even armed violence.


But I do see much that is good. C+, maybe even B-.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:34 AM

Waht Richard said....

It's asinine for anyone to claim that ""this generation of heroes has made the United States safer and more respected around the world." (but it's typical presidential rhetoric. What American president would NOT say such a thing in order to make his audience feel good and justify his own policies?)

First of all, the generation he refers to aren't heroes. They're just a generation of quite ordinary people who have had the very bad luck to be put in harm's way by a criminally irresponsible government bent on securing a world empire through any and all means possible, including great financial fraud, open aggression, occupation and destruction of other societies, and using every form of intimidation on the people who won't submit. Like any people placed in mortal danger by their bosses, these American "heroes" have done the best they could, while being cynically used as cannon fodder and as prison guards and executioners by their corporate masters. The number of non-Americans they have slain in their illegal wars is immense, and so too the damage they have done.

The result? The United States is far less safe and FAR less respected than it was before the so-called War on Terror began, I don't think it's EVER been less respected, and the entire world is far less safe than it was before the launching of the war OF terror, which is what it really is. Shock and Awe = Terror. Guantanamo, Abu Grahib, and Falluja = Terror. Attacks by Drones = Terror. Betrayal of the Arab Spring by employing the craziest Islamic extremists to do your dirty work for you, topple sovereign governments, and establish new dictatorships in their place to serve American interests = Terror. NDAA = Terror. I'd say we have seldom been less safe than we are now, aside from during the 13 terrifying days of the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. We are teetering on the abyss of World War III at any time, that possibility hingeing on what appears to be the most fondly cherished military objective of the War OF Terror, the final piece de resistance of Terror: an American-Israeli attack on Iran (and regime change there, of course).

The Russians and Chinese will not stand aside if such an attack is made, no more than the USA would stand aside if Russia or China launched a major military strike on Mexico... and that means a Third World War if the insane architects of the War OF Terror get their way.

Obama, being an American president, is merely serving as one of their principle errand boys at present....and, yes, he's a marvelous speaker and a very, very bright man. Quite likable and personable too. I'd definitely have voted for him in those last 2 elections, given the choice of who else they put up to vote for at the same time. No contest! But I don't believe in the order he serves nor in its purposes. So it's a moot point.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 10:56 AM

I was on errands too.    Uh, well, that is, tearing the town down singing mostly French songs plus "Let the Good Times Roll" in 5 pubs, In Mardi Gras finery.   Tradition started about 4 years ago here and it's snowballing.    There's already one pub where the fire marshall might welll shut us down soon.

Well, hell, if he is so thoughtless as to schedule SOTU on Mardi Gras what does he expect?

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:16 PM

"I'd quarrel with "a country that leads the world in educating its people". That may be so of a tiny minority of the best students at the best universities, but school-level provision for those in the poorest communities is at third-world level, and the impression at least from the media* is of schools where bullying thrives and indeed is almost encouraged in the name of freedom of speech, academic betterment is ridiculed by street culture, the weakest are left to go to the wall and those in the greatest mental trouble receive neither counselling nor help - and meanwhile teachers are held in contempt." Richard Bridge

That is the problem, Richard Bridge. The media may well give you that impression, but it is a vast and misleading statement and a very limiting belief.

One thing I am VERY proud of my country for is our willingness to examine and accept our failings and our determination to address and redress them.

A beloved song of ours has the line in it:"God mend our every flaw". Aside from the fact that I believe that Americans realize it is up to us, ourselves, to mend our flaws, I have read that NO other country would consider including such a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:06 PM

Some valid points to think about ... from the CBC

Obama dekes right, test-driving a new agenda

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:23 PM

Yeah, Obama gives great speeches. We'll see how much gets done.

I waited the whole time for him to explain how he's going to pay for all he announced, especially since he claimed that none of those things would increase the federal debt. But he didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:31 PM

It's an easy trend performed by many politicians these days ... promise everything but never explain how it all can be achieved ...it's just rhetoric, and it's what the numb minded populace falls for.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:40 PM

You may as well talk to the wall as try to convince Mr. Bridge that the President has done anything right--or that the US has. Perhaps he's still bitter about the unpleasantness of 1775-1783.

Also, Mr. Bridge told us years ago that Mr. Obama is not black enough for Mr. Bridge--(Mr. Bridge being of course the ultimate authority on what constitutes being black--just ask him. )   And he's not likely to ever forgive him for this alleged sin.

Besides, who could compare with Mr. Bridge's idol, Mr. Cameron?

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:06 PM

Obama described, with energy and enthusiasm, a number of near-term ideals the nation could reach for, and expressed the intention to reach for them. It should be obvious even to the most miseducated rapscallion that you cannot make things better if you have no concept how things should be if they were going well. Generating a positive vision of a way forward is certainly a key part of the President's job. And Mister Obama, using common sense and a broad compassion for individual lives and struggles, is certainly doing it better than his predecessors. Parsing the individual rhetorical strokes used in a national address is kind of pesky-minded, wouldn't you say> Maybe even specious?

A

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:37 PM

Ron. Reality check?

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:47 PM

Well said, Amos!

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:51 PM

Ebbie: "I was much less surprised with Ebbie's response."
Surprise, surprise, surprise!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 09:31 PM

A beloved song of ours has the line in it:"God mend our every flaw". Aside from the fact that I believe that Americans realize it is up to us, ourselves, to mend our flaws, I have read that NO other country would consider including such a thought.

I very much doubt that. I suspect there'd be songs enough in pretty well all countries recognising imperfections. It might make an interesting thread. Just off the top of my head for Ireland there'd be "We're on the one road, maybe the wrong road, on the road to God knows where"

Is it stereotyping though to think that perhaps it's a bit characteristic of the USA to think that such a sentiment is an only-in-America one? Rather in the same tradition as Obama's words about how American education is the best in the world. Which definitely doesn't stand up too well to scrutiny. Though I don't see such things as deliberate misrepresentation, but rather as a kind of rhetoric built on an instinct that the best way to achieve something can be to talk as if it were already achieved. "The power of positive thinking".

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 10:04 PM

Good grief Amos .... of course one cannot make things better if you have no concept how things should be if they were going well. But let's face it, the SOTU Address is just rhetoric, an annual public relations event for the numero uno executive office of the U.S. It's political theatre.

To label Obama's SOTU Address as 'awesome' is beyond exaggeration of nothing more than let's say the Queens Christmas message, or the Pope's Easter message. All of which does not stamp a milestone in the annals of history.

Anyway, in short and after the day is through, it's all just PR rhetoric.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:16 AM

But, alas...like so many before him, he NEVER stated the state of the union!
The rest was empty rhetoric.
By the time this guy is done, you'll be whining that he acts more like a Republican...but then refuse to admit you ate up his bullshit!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:31 AM

". Just off the top of my head for Ireland there'd be "We're on the one road, maybe the wrong road, on the road to God knows where" McGrath

Are you saying that that song is an Irish anthem? I'd love to know more about it.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:43 AM

These are stirring words, no doubt about it, Kevin. Is it commonly sung, or was it a product of the times, a song with a short shelf life? Can it be sung regardless of its audience, i.e. Unionists versus Republicans?

(Incidentally, I would postulate that this song does not refer to 'flaws', per se.)

On the One Road

Though we´ve had our troubles now and then
Now´s the time to make them up again
Sure aren´t we all Irish anyhow
Now´s the time to get together, now!

Tinker, tailor, every mother´s son
Butcher, baker, shouldering his gun
Rich man, poor man, every man in line
All together now like auld lang syne

The night is darkest just before the dawn
From dissension Ireland is reborn
Soon we´ll al united Irishmen
Make our land a nation once again

We´re on the one road sharing the one load
We´re on the road to God knows where
We´re on the one road, it maybe the wrong road
But we´re together now who cares
North men, south men, comrades all
Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal
We´re on the one road, swingin´ along
Singin´ a soldiers song

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:44 AM

"God mend our every flaw"...NO other country would consider including such a thought.

Now THERE, ladies and gentlemen, are corrosive "exceptionalism" and jingoism at their finest.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:04 AM

Yeah, Palinesque.

This speech was way above average for one of these things especially toward the end. This guy is trying to move this country back into a more sane direction. More power to him.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:54 AM

Hokay. Show me an example refuting the assertion. I repeat: What nations have anthems that acknowledge flaws inherent in their country?

It is not my assertion, by the way; I but read it.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:35 PM

You didn't say anthem, Ebbie, you said beloved song.

Jersusalem is at least as close to being an unofficial National Anthem as America the Beautiful.

Bring me my bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire.

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Plus Dark Satanic Mills.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:59 PM

Jerusalem crossed my mind too, though with it's referencing of 'dark satanic mills' it's actually more of a damning critique than simply 'acknowledging flaws'.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:23 PM

Blake's "dark satanic mills" are not factories - they're more usually thought to be his reference to the Establishment as represented by the Church and the Universities. Orthodoxy, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:30 PM

Segue here: "Dark satanic mills"? What happened to the religiously- disinterested England/UK/Europe? lol

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:37 PM

Really, Mr. Bridge?    Would you like me to resurrect the thread in which you call Mr. Obama a coconut (white on the inside)?

Or have you conveniently forgotten it? That certainly seems to be a skill you have mastered.

What a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:48 PM

"Segue here: "Dark satanic mills"? What happened to the religiously- disinterested England/UK/Europe? lol"

It may be worth noting that Jerusalem (the poem) is over two hundred years old and that Blake it's author was a mystic rather than religious as such. Or it might not be of course :)

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM

Then you've got the very much beloved unofficial anthem of Australia. Waltzing Matilda doesn't exactly paint a picture of a flawless society.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 10:25 AM

I can't tell you how astonished I am that Mr Bridge has not found time to respond to my question.

For anybody who is interested, try the thread titled:    "Identikit".

Mr. Bridge's credibility on anything regarding the US--see for instance his views on the BP spill--is at this point somewhat below zero. And shows no signs of recovering anytime soon.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:15 AM

What?   Still no word from Mr. Bridge as to whether he wants me to revive the " Identikit" thread? I'm astonished beyond belief.   He must be very busy.

Or, just perhaps, this means he will start to refrain from sounding off quite so often, in his patented spectacularly ill-informed fashion, on US subjects. That would be a pleasant change.

Reminds me of another paradaisical situation:

"And noble statesmen do not itch
To interfere in matters which
They do not understand"

Well, perhaps, the day after hell freezes over.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:40 AM

I'm never sure whether or not it's better for personal feuds to be carried on through Personal Messages or not.   Less entertaining for the onlookers, if they like that kind of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:48 AM

It's better for the attention whores. The rest of Mudcat, probably not so much. It makes it hard to talk about any subject other than them.

Subject: RE: BS: An Awesome SOTU Address by Obama
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:14 PM

I dunno, Jeri. I got a fellin that Ron is just really pissed at Rick (fellin??? Hahahahaa!) and wants to continue to slap him for "good measure" and to make sure everyone sees it. I know I have been guilty of doing that many times and, yes, I know one slap per fuckup is sufficient... but, I always blame it on my Irish Nature = some people need to be slapped repeatedly until they "stop that shit".

Yes. It is childish. But, I understand it so I don't necessarily consider such behaviour equates with being an attention whore.

Anyone got a problem with that? Eh? Do ya? >;-)