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Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff

GUEST,Julia L 22 Feb 13 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,999 23 Feb 13 - 11:12 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Feb 13 - 12:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Feb 13 - 12:17 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 23 Feb 13 - 12:56 PM
Rumncoke 23 Feb 13 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,Julia L 23 Feb 13 - 11:08 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 24 Feb 13 - 08:35 AM
maeve 24 Feb 13 - 10:02 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 24 Feb 13 - 10:14 AM
maeve 24 Feb 13 - 01:33 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 24 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM
maeve 24 Feb 13 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,Julia L 24 Feb 13 - 06:10 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Feb 13 - 06:24 PM
maeve 24 Feb 13 - 06:31 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 24 Feb 13 - 07:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Feb 13 - 08:25 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Feb 13 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,Julia L 24 Feb 13 - 09:56 PM
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Subject: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 10:00 PM

Hi folks- anyone know where Norman Luboff got his version of The Dark-eyed sailor? I seem to remember someone telling me it was from PEI...
many thanks

BTW- I just recorded it; learned it when I was 4 and have loved it all these years... sigh


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 11:12 AM

http://books.google.ca/books?id=WNNwgB4d7PgC&pg=PT112&lpg=PT112&dq=Dark+eyed+sailor,+prince+edward+island&source=bl&ots=Wibb5SmN

The song certainly had a presence in PEI. Check out p.93 on that link. I have never heard Luboff's version/arrangement. Perhaps you can tell from the melody notation and lyrics whether NL was influenced by it. That said, the song was darned near ubiquitous and I have been unable to locate any specific references providing 'proof' that Luboff got it from PEI.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 12:01 PM

"The Dark-eyed Sailor," in Kenneth Peacock, "Songs of the Newfoundland Outports," vol. 2, p. 51-514, with musical score.

Rekarks at end of entry: "All of the Newfoundland variants of this English broadside song are similar. It is also well-known in the Maritimes and in the United States where it was printed in many song books during the nineteenth century."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 12:17 PM

The Bodleian Library, Oxford, offers four broadsides, England and Scotland, 19th C.

http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/regsrch.pl

It would be difficult to determine which one, or ones, of the many variants was used by Luboff. UK, U. S., or Canadian.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 12:56 PM

The version sung by the Norman Luboff Choir, from the bit I could hear on Amazon, is not the PEI version linked by 999. The sample has v2 and the wording is different.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Rumncoke
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 08:58 PM

Q, I did a copy and paste on your link and got an error message.

I'm going to do a search from my own resources, but that might take some time.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 11:08 PM

Thanks guys- I wonder if the notes on his Songs of the Sea LP (circa 1960) have any info?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 08:35 AM

The Roud index lists only that one entry (the one linked by 999) for the Dark Eyed Sailor with PEI specified: collected in 1958 at Spring Hill, PEI from Angus Emman.

It's possible that there were other versions collected there but not indexed, but it may not be from PEI.

Roud has 34 entries for The Dark Eyed Sailor (#265) from Canada: 15 NS, 1 NB, 1 PEI, 3 ON, 5 NL, 1 QC, 8 just Canada


Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: maeve
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:02 AM

Looks like a 1956 release date.

An auction photo of the back cover says, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor is of English origin dating roughly from the early eighteen hundreds."
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORMAN-LUBOFF-CHOIR-Songs-of-the-Sea-Vinyl-33-LP-Music-Record-Album-VG-Stereo-/300852331913?pt=Music_on_

I've loved the song for years and look forward to hearing your rendition.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:14 AM

That link is really useful maeve. As well as the cover art, there is a picture of the notes on the back and they're quite readable. All they say of the Dark Eyed Sailor is: "The Dark-Eyed Sailor is of English origin, dating roughly from the early eighteen hundreds." The 1957 date means the PEI version above was not the one used.


Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: maeve
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 01:33 PM

Yes, Mick; I agree- the description both you and I quoted answers Julia's question regarding a PEI source.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM

Sorry maeve - didn't read your post closely enough - I clicked the link too soon and needlessly repeated what you'd just said!

Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: maeve
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 02:41 PM

On the other hand, Mick, if you didn't see it, perhaps others would have missed it also. In any case it's good if we have answered Julia's question!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 06:10 PM

Very interesting... the song is noted in Fanny Hardy Eckstorm's notes for her proposed Maine Sea Songster (circa 1930 or so)but I have yet to see her version.

Any idea where Luboff got his material in general? perhaps there's a clue amongst his sources

Thanks again, all!
J


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 06:24 PM

Pearce, the Bodleian is linked by http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ballads/ballads.htm
Enter Dark-eyed sailor in Browse/Search and four copies are linked.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: maeve
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 06:31 PM

Julia, have you heard the lovely version sung on this compilation (available from Timberhead)? The notes for the cd specified sources. Unfortunately, my copy is ashes so I can't check it for you. Do you have a copy of it- or of the Flanders Collection? You might also contact Dan Milner or Gordon.

Irish Songs From Old New England: Traditional Irish-American Songs from the Flanders Ballad Collection compiled by Dan Milner (Link to mp3 included.)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 07:17 PM

Q - not sure why you're telling me the Bodleian address (I'm more than familiar with it, it lives in my Folk Essential link directory. I also have my own copy of the index). Is this in case I rushed through your post the way I did with maeve's and missed the important bit ;-)

I was only looking at the versions collected in Canada, since Julia thought it was from PEI. The full 389 entries in Roud are too many to check!


I had a look at the songs on the Songs of the Sea album and initially wondered if they came from Doerflinger's Shantymen and Shantyboys, (published 1951), which does have the Dark-Eyed Sailor, but there are 5 from the record not in there I think. There were a few collections of shanties and sea songs available to him before 1956 and it's possible he used one or more of those as his source (Whall, Fox-Smith, Shay for example as well as Doerflinger)


Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 08:25 PM

Flanders et al., The New Green Mountain Songster, pp. 36-38, remark that "The air to which it is almost universally sung, both in the old-country and American tradition, belongs to another ballad, "The Female Smuggler" (cf. Phillips Barry, "Fair Phoebe and Her Dark-eyed Sailor," FFSSNE, Bulletin No.7, pp. 8-10).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 08:38 PM

Perhaps Luboff's books might provide some sources, e. g., "Songs of Man, International Book of Folk Songs." Norman Luboff and Stracke, Win.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Dark eyed sailor-Luboff
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 09:56 PM

Thanks to all
seems to have been a popular song
Maeve- the melody on that recording is very similar isn't it..lyrics different though

Q- Good leads! the Phillips Barry version may be the one FHE collected... I'll be in DC next week and might could check the files in the LOC. They probly have a copy of Songs of Man, if not, I have a copy which I'll check when I get home.
cheerio-j


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