BS: The REALLY Big Lie

Subject: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 04:13 PM

With all of the "Obama is a Fascist, a Socialist, a Communist, a Muslim, a Kenyan, an Indonesian, Gay, and a Real Bad Tap Dancer," I thought I'd try to inject a bit of intelligent information into this section of the forum.

On one thread (at least), there is much talk about "The Big Lie," and debate (wrangling and name-calling) over who, exactly is telling "The Big Lie." More heat than light, as usual.

Here is someone giving the run-down on the REAL Big Lie that's foremost in the news these days of budget cuts, tax raises and cuts, and the one that is probably the Biggest Lie of All.

I tried this link and it worked for me. An ad may pop up, but I was able to get rid of it by clicking on the background. It's a video. Have your sound turned on.

The Big Lie

Franklin D. Roosevelt knew this. And this is how he ended the Great Depression (NOT by starting World War II, as his detractors would have you believe). Regulate the financial interests to stop them from looting the system, and through agencies like the WPA and CCC (building or repairing the country's infrastructure), employ people and put money back in the hands of people who have to spend it right away--on necessities like food and rent.

One stimulates the economy, not by giving the fat-cats more money, which they ship to Swiss banks or the Cayman Islands, but by giving the money to people—a large customer base—who will BUY things.

A lesson in basic economics.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 04:45 PM

If you have trouble with that link, here's another. Apparently, Nick Hanauer's brief talk has gone viral! It's now on YouTube.

CLICKY.

Hanauer gave this talk some time ago. But it was suppressed. Now, however, it has managed to re-emerge.

Lots of people—the wealthiest 1%—are madder than spit at Hanauer for blowing their dirty little secret. But if they just THOUGHT about it, it's obviously for their own good as well as everybody's.

Spread the word!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: gnu
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:53 PM

Posted to my Facebook page.

Thank you, Don!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:59 PM

Here's the other side of that from a UCLA professor of economics.

Did FDR End or Extend the Depression ?

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:02 PM

Sorry, but the blue clicky didn't come blue or clicky.

So try again:

Did FDR End or Extend the Depression?

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:18 PM

One thing the fat cats never mention; when they hire employees, they deduct their salaries and benefits as a cost of doing business.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:31 PM

Well, duh, Kendall---It is a cost of doing business, and it is reported every year.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:45 PM

This all goes back to an argument that occurred over 100 years ago... America was still in the grips of the robber barons, Congress was corrupt and in bed with them and the working man was getting screwed...

And then along came Henry Ford... He wanted to build automobiles on an assembly line and advertised that he was going to pay his workers $5.00 a day... The robber barons and their buddies were real pissed off at Henry and chastised him as if he were going to ruin America...

Henry Ford's response to their criticism is actually what is the theme of Don's link when he responded, "If I don't pay them a living wage who will buy my cars?"...

Check mate...

Today, the monied class is sitting on $3T in un-invested cash telling us that if we just give them more cash they will create jobs???

How many more trillions do these liars want??? Another $3T??? $30T???
$300T???

Let's get real here... The greedy are so stupid that they haven't a clue just how stupid they are... They think that squeezing the working class will produce more for them... It works in the short term as we have seen but...

... in the long run??? It is suicide for capitalism...

Square business...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:54 PM

BTW, Hitler is credited with coining the term "Big Lie"... He said that people might not believe the small ones but would believe the big one...

It's no coincidence that it is the US "industrialists" who are now pushing the BIG LIE...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: gnu
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 09:06 PM

Common sense, innit it?

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 09:11 PM

Yes, it is, gn-ze...

I was fortunate to have an economics professor in college, Dr. Snellings, who made understanding economics all common sense...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 09:14 PM

First of all, John, my main point here is to air the comments of Nick Hanauer. My comment about FDR was not intended to start a debate about him.

However, I know full well what the New Deal and FDR's various reforms did for my family and families that we knew. And I was also aware of the vitriol with which Republicans spoke of FDR. My Dad was caught in the Depression and was out of work for some time, having to take jobs (when he could get them) driving taxi or selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door, simply to try to keep food in our mouths. There was no work to be had!

Until FDR came along with the New Deal

That's why he kept getting voted back in!

And by the LATE Thirties, we, and others like us, were in pretty good shape.

I KNOW that what Hanauer says is true. Whereas, the words of Prof. Lee Ohanian mimics what was being said at the time by Republicans and other Right Wingers, and simply was not the case. It's pretty hard to justify the comment that FDR prolonged the Depression when people all around us were suddenly finding work—after a long period of unemployment.

History has blamed the Great Depression on Wall Street madness encouraged by the policies of Herbert Hoover, whom Roosevelt defeated in the election of 1932. It was not long after that that things began to turn around. The Depression didn't end for a few years after that, but it began to end when Roosevelt's policies went into effect.

Sorry to disagree with the good professor, but I note that in addition to being an economics professor at UCLA, he is a Fellow of the Hoover Institution, a Conservative think tank located at Stanford University.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 09:19 PM

Hoover = austerity = Great Depression...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 09:20 PM

Labor and management need each other like peanut butter and jelly and should work together in the same way. Henry Ford was right -- if the workers don't have any money, who will buy the manufactured goods?

But in the US and many other countries those manufacturing jobs have gone elsewhere. You can probably take it from there.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 09:32 PM

Yup...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 10:08 PM

"Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play."
                            --Joseph Goebbels

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 01:40 AM

Thanks, Don. This guy is remarkably honest and lucid, and his TED talk should go viral, enough to counter-infect all the blowzy-minded zombies who are currently ill with the mantra that rich people create jobs. His clarion explanation that hiring is ONLY resorted to when demand requires it makes perfect sense.

He's speaking from the inside scoop, IMHO, and should be heeded and celebrated, not suppressed.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:24 AM

The REALLY, REALLY BIG lie is that we can go on multiplying and polluting and using up the planet's resources forever with no consequences for our species and every other species!

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 05:50 AM

I think fixing the first lie might lead to fixing the second one, Shimrod.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 06:42 AM

Wise words, gnu, but I'm not sure the second one is actually a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 06:56 AM

I hope you're right, gnu. Unfortunately, it seems to me, that all existing, dominant shades of political and economic opinion regard the environment to be irrelevant. My definition of a mainstream politician (of left or right), or economist, is a person who is wilfully blind to the existence of limits, the blindingly obvious fact that all wealth derives from environmental sources and the equally obvious fact that our species is utterly dependent, for its continued existence, upon a healthy environment.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 09:14 AM

Well, population is a problem but only because we are unwilling to find ways for it to be supported without using up so much of the Earth's resources... It can be done, however, but not with the current paradigm of burning up so much stuff to create energy... It's going to take a major cultural shift that is going to be messy for the folks who profit from the burning...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 10:01 AM

If energy and water were solved, the over-population issue would be manageable.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 12:47 PM

The two go hand in hand, Amos... But you know that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:30 PM

Refresh.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:06 PM

Good video, Don. I agree with it 100%.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:12 PM

As of this posting (it may change over time), a whole pot-full of talks by and discussions with

Nick Hanauer

This man knows where his towel is!

Don Firth

P. S. The Fat Cats wish he had been drowned at birth.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 06:19 PM

America was still in the grips of the robber barons, Congress was corrupt and in bed with them and the working man was getting screwed...

A hundred years ago? Sounds remarkably comntemporary to me, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 07:27 PM

FDR went a long way to loosening the grip of the robber barons in the 1930s by instituting regulatory agencies and making them behave themselves.

But Reagan systematically gutted FDR's regulators in the 1980s.

We need to put real regulators back in those agencies, let Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy come to an end (which they were supposed to), and repeal Citizen's United.

And additionally, lobbying should simply be redefined as what it truly is:   bribery.   And be made illegal.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 07:39 PM

History repeats itself...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 11:58 PM

Bobert: "History repeats itself..."


...and history teaches us that man never learns from history!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:08 AM

No. What the aphorism says is that, "Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:33 AM

Hmmm. Yes, well, most societies have been run by rich elites, haven't they? The thing is, money buys favors. And firepower. And airtime. Enough money buys very big favors, and it works its way to the top of any system very fast. And then it ensures that it will stay in power there.

What do we do about it?

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:06 AM

First, we don't accept the status quo and simply say that there's nothing that can be done about it.

As I have said before, the adage, "You can't fight City Hall," was started by City Hall. Think about it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:08 AM

I agree with you on that, GfinS... George W. was too busy playing drunk frat boy during Vietnam to have learned the lessons of that slobber-knocker of bad foreign policy and mindlessly went ahead into getting US into Vietnam II in Iraq...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Amos
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 11:09 AM

HE was said to be a student of history. But I think he specialized in the history of cocktails.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: saulgoldie
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:47 PM

Really big lie? Written in ALL CAPS, Bold, 72 point font. Now THAT is BIG!!

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:38 PM

Well, I'm going to weigh in, but I'm not going to labor it, other than to say, the video made sense, but is based on a false premise by exclusion of certain facts.

That being said, a massive amount of our financial 'woes' are due to interest being paid on fiat money being held by banks and corporations, that were allowed by crony inspired legislation. Bush did it, Obama did it...PLUS, collateral was permitted by bankers through unpaid mortgages.
it is 'normally' an illegal practice called 'pyramiding'.
Forty six cents of every dollar that you have, is to cover the interest alone on the debt to pay for the 'loan' of even having the money printed....therefore the tax rate now gets raised to cover the debt, making employment a bit more difficult, for smaller businesses to hire, and put more people back to work, to pay for their subsistence....what does the government/bankers do??...print more fiat money...which new taxes is imposed on the people, reducing the value of their money, and buying power of it...which, of course, slows the economy.

Now to the 'left', they may see private property as obsolete, and are willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater...so this type of rhetoric has a certain appeal to them.
That being said, as well, the bulk of the problem is not with private ownership of property or business, but of government/banker intrusion, into the public, for the sake of perpetuating corrupt and therefore faulty fiscal practices.
We have taxes foisted upon us without representation of how that money is spent, whether it be wars, intervention into foreign civil wars, domestic social programs, and borrowing and lending.
Rather than clamping down on the public, don't you think that cleaning house of the 'intercourse' going on with the bankers, government and Wall Street, whose main concern is NOT the citizens at large, but rather a power struggle for control, in which we all become debtors to?

The video made sense, and sounded good, but it was just another lie, based on a lie, to those who enjoy being lied to, because it makes them feel that they, and their political beliefs are the only ones that matter.
Rather Machiavellian in nature....create a problem, so the ones creating it can offer a 'solution'...in this case, an agenda driven response to a false premise.
FACT!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 02:07 PM

The idea that the so-called "left" see private property as obsolete is not substantiated. It's an opinion.

If the government didn't intrude by offering an SEC as an example, we as a nation would be relegated to feudalism. The only reason that we are in trouble today is that private industry, banking, big pharma, the poisonous fast food industry, the military industrial complex own government and it's well to remember that corporate ownership of government is call fascism. The yoke of the chain is lobbying.

I agree, however, that cleaning house by purging banking speculation, taxing those who really can afford it as part of the contract of being a citizen, and the monopoly of larger private corporations who are in the business of squelching competition by defeating the emergence of smaller businesses, giving real news over the media as opposed to corporate propaganda, keeping private prisons out of business who have not rehabilitation as an agenda but profit from a prisoner industry, not to mention the dirty lie of clean coal, the profit motive of the nuclear industry who is poisoning our air, as well as the natural gas and oil despoiling the land and groundwater, all these in the name of private enterprise, the biggest lie of all, supports Hanauers talk.

Reagan's dictum that government is the problem is false. It's private ownership of the government that is at fault and why we as a nation have high unemployment rates, excessive taxes on those that can least afford them, wars that can't be paid for whereby billions of dollars of taxpayer monies are lost.

As for banks, there is one solution that would solve this problem, the return of
Glass/Steagal.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 02:33 PM

For the most part, I agree with Stringsinger on this one. However, I can't help being VERY suspicious of the funding of these agendas, and to what end.
By 'private property' I was referring to private businesses and their assets. I'm sorry if that was unclear....but that being said, one thing that is NOT 'private property' is the government being owned by private financial institutions, nor big government using tax payer dollars to bail out those institutions, whose assets are built on fiat money, and unsecured collateral.
Bobert, is quick to point out that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was initiated by Republicans....but it was signed into law by Bill Clinton. It was for the benefit of those same bankers, of whom I've spoken plenty about before, so not necessary to go into it further. Both Clinton, and the Republican backed repeal of it, were not for the benefit of 'We the People', but for their bankster cronies. That is a FACT...also it is a FACT that BOTH parties participated in it, because they had been corrupted, and it was BOTH parties who opened up loopholes for mega-corps and banksters to get around MANY anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws, already on the books.
Who do I fault?..Both parties, corruption, lack of integrity, and greedy power mongers!...AND a misinformed electorate, which has been willfully kept ignorant, while 'appealing' to their emotions through deceptive party agendas, masquerading as political causes, when in fact, they were meant to increase the debt through profitable borrowing, while leveraging their way to complete control.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:18 PM

Just out...Obama's new 'budget' calls for increase of 1.1 Trillion in new taxes and fees. Two things: Wasn't he promising NOT to raise taxes on the lower and middle classes??..who ultimately pay them .......AND...didn't he give the bankers just shy of a trillion for the 'stimulus'?..who are holding on to them??.....I guess you might want to check out my previous posts!
This being said, I'm not attacking Obama's policies...after all, he had no choice....and they also aren't HIS policies!!!
They came down from his bosses.
Think about it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:28 PM

Stringsinger definitely knows where his towel is. A man who knows where it's at.

And I am truly amazed! Even though I don't agree with everything he's saying, GfS's recent posts have actually made sense!

I am duly impressed!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:02 PM

Well don, that being said, maybe it's time to re-evaluate what the media is telling us 'who' he 'left' and 'right' really are.
As far as I'm concerned, we are all Americans, and we have been intentionally confused, as to who and what the threat really is.
Now of course, some of us are serious musicians.....we should NEVER be confused!

Regards All,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: LadyJean
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 01:45 AM

Every year I come to the S.C.A's annual Pensic War and sell my stuffed plague rats.
I have learned that the person who comes to Pensic with $5 over what he needs for food etc. will not buy a rat. The person who comes with $50 may buy a rat. The person who comes with $100 will buy a rat. The person who comes with $500 will buy a rat and may buy 2 or 3. (One guy buys a bunch for his jack russell terriers.) The person who comes with $5000 will buy no more rats than the peson with $500, and may buy fewer, as he brought money for a high ticket item.

I call this Ratenomics.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 12:28 PM

Trickle down wealth??..or trickle down taxes?...or maybe just trickle down your pants!...in any event whatever is trickling will affect you!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 03:54 PM

Oh, too bad!

Back to the same old incoherent drivel. Or should I say "dribble"?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 04:22 PM

"However, I can't help being VERY suspicious of the funding of these agendas, and to what end."

I think that it's fine to skeptical here since that pattern has been that lobbying and campaign contributions by corporations have determined how these agendas are implemented.

I also see that money is the chief arbiter of elections in both Parties and corrupts them.

The Roberts Court did the country no favor by humanizing corporations. They essentially destroyed the election system. We need a Constitutional Amendment banning Corporations as becoming "people" and money buying speech. In a democratic society, this is necessary.

The really big lie here is that democracy is up for sale. USA is on the block.

BTW, thanks Don. I appreciate your compliment.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:10 PM

Yo, GfinS...

The repeal of Glass-Steagall was a product of Citibank, Sen. Phil Graham (R) and congressional Republicans... Clinton was is deep shit and being "Slick Willie" and painted into a corner he reluctantly signed it... He never pushed for the repeal or even mildly suggested it should be repealed...

That was the "politics" part of the story but we fully understand that you know nothing about politics... You and yer buddies are incapable of understanding political realities and that seems to be the reason it is so difficult to discuss real events with ya'll...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 02:23 AM

Nice try.................Did he sign it, or not sign it???....the rest is just theater!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 02:44 AM

Well, I'm going to weigh in, but I'm not going to labor it, other than to say, the video made sense, but is based on a false premise by exclusion of certain facts.

Maybe, but it would be clearer if you said what those facts are.

And I am truly amazed! Even though I don't agree with everything he's saying, GfS's recent posts have actually made sense!

Not to me, unless someone actually says what the relevant excluded facts are.

Now of course, some facts are excluded. The talks is around 5 minutes long, so lots of stuff is excluded. The question is, which are the facts that were excluded that show the argument to be false?

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 02:51 PM

Back in the 1930s, President Roosevelt based his policies on the principles expounded by Nick Hanauer in the video--and it worked.

There was a fair amount of cleaning up to do after the stock market crash that heralded the Great Depression, but by putting money back in the hands of ordinary people by employing them (WPA, CCC, TVA, etc.) and standing on the coat tails of the bankers and Wall Street wheeler-dealers through regulation (SEC, FDIC, etc.), FDR jump-started the economy and pretty well got the country back on track.

Would that President Obama would read up on FDR.

Don Firth

P. S. Goofballupagus has nothing, knows nothing. He just feels impelled to dump on any idea put forth by anyone he regards as a "loony liberal."   Dumb!

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 03:38 PM

MtheGM must have a comprehension problem. I said that the premise was false, and explained clearly as to why...sorry you missed it...

Firth, you 'P.S.' was just another one of your baseless, snarky remarks, meant to incite ill will.

Bobert now says that it was Citibank that gave Clinton the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and we KNOW that Monsanto wrote the bill that Obama signed and is currently trying to sneak in on the budget as a rider, and STILL the diehard devotees are conditioned to think the Democrats are clean! ...The biggest fuck-ups in food and housing, with global ramifications, creating a massive crisis, at the behest of bankers and corporate greed, and the devotees are still insistent that the Democratic Party is watching out for 'the little guy'.
Well, I'm telling you it is corruption, and they have corrupted your thinking processes, as well....Morons, and proud of it!!!
...and just for equal time, the Republicans have their 'pet' corrupt partners as well. America has succumbed, to debating over the distractions, and a couple of you just seem to be going right along with it....and then want to be seen as being so 'wise' and 'informed'!
Monty Python-esque!!!
Why don't you stare at your navels and debate which way the lint is leaning...then root for one way or the other!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 03:58 PM

DMcG is not MtheGM

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 04:08 PM

Well, firstly, I'm not MtheGM so maybe complaining about his comprehension abilities is beside the point.

But my comprehension is fine, thank you. And while you wrote a good few paragraphs none of them addressed whatever flaw you percieved in the TED talk

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 04:32 PM

Goofballupagus, you are really losing it!!

"MtheGM must have a comprehension problem. I said that the premise was false, and explained clearly as to why...sorry you missed it..."

First of all, MtheGM has not posted anywhere on this thread. The person who challenged you was DMcG. And he said, "Maybe, but it would be clearer if you said what those facts are."

If you, indeed "explained" the erroneous facts, you certainly buried them deep in your usual deluge of nonsense.

Nick Hanauer knows whereof he speaks, there are other multibillionaires who agree with him.

Warren Buffet for one, and Ted Turner for another. Turner gave away one billion of his three billion dollars, donating it to the United Nations. And he built a sports stadium in his city with his own money, not nicking the taxpayers for it like others are trying to do. Bill Gates' personal fortune reached 90 billion dollars before he started giving it away to various causes (he had to be nudged by his new wife and his more socially conscious father), and his personal fortune is now down to—last I heard—around 30 billion.

He's doing some real good with his money now, and with $30 billion stuffed in his mattress, I think he'll manage to struggle by.

When other multi-billionaires criticized Ted Turner for giving away a third of his fortune, he flashed back at them, "Just who in the hell NEEDS that much money!??"

Nick Hanauer is right.

And Franklin D. Roosevelt, some eighty years ago, PROVED it.

And—YOU are the Proud Moron around here!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 05:13 PM

My apologies to MtheGM for the mistake. While typing it, I was somewhat surprised at MtheGM, because his posts were not as stupid as the one I thought was his!

1.1 Trillion in new taxes in the new Obama budget..and NONE of that goes to funding ANYTHING!..just to pay for the interest for other loans.
This money WILL be paid by the middle and lower class people, no doubt about it...all the while, banskters are holding onto a Trillion of 'stimulus' money...as the interest adds up. Now, before we go much further in debating over ill informed 'opinions'...nurtured right from the corporations from where you got them...won't anyone even address a couple of FACTS...for a change?

GfS

P.S. As long as the topic is the REALLY Big lie.....what kind is this one?

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 05:24 PM

Love your suggestion that asking you for clarification is stupid, GfS!

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 06:57 PM

The problem I have with GfinS is that GfinS refuses to see anything but black or white... The real world isn't black or white... The real world is gray...

I have long been a student of politics... There's more gray in politics than in ideologies...

Here's what we know:

1. Obama inherited two hot wars...

2. Obama inherited the worst economy in 80 years...

3. Obama has the highest level of opposition/obstruction since Lincoln

Here's what else we know:

1. Obama has ended one of those two wars and is in the process of ending the other...

2. Obama has not started any new wars...

3. Obama has stabilized the economy...

3, Obama is a centrist pragmatist...

Do I agree with everything that has happened during his administration??? Hell no, I don't... But I don't think that Obama is responsible for the stuff that has happened I disagree with...

Let's get real:

1. Obama is neither a king or dictator...

2. Obama understands the constitutional limitations of the executive branch of our government...

Here's a little advice to the Obama haters here, mainly Krinkz, pdq & GfinS:

1. Enroll in a American history course at the local community college and learn about a subject ya'll apparently know nothing about...

2. Don't read the right wing blogs that ya'll post as if they are objective and truthful... They are neither...

3. Spend one hour a day reading "real news" at either the Washington Post or New York Times... Read the news along with all the op-eds... Yes, I read the righties (Chuckie K, Jennifer Rubin, George Will and David Brooks)... If yo don't read them all then you aren't educating yourselves... You are conducting mental masturbation... In other words, leave your hate and ignorance behind...

That about wraps it up...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:25 PM

I have not posted to this thread other than to point out a mis-identified poster.

This thread seems to be just another excuse for the usual suspects to call their boogey men nasty names.

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 08:03 PM

I haven't called you any nasty names, pdq...

I have made observations...

But no names...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 11:05 PM

Pdq, the purpose of this thread (apparently you missed it) is to introduce people to Nick Hanauer, a very wealthy venture capitalist and his take on the current situation and how to solve it. TED was going to air it, but was pressured to suppress it. "Certain people" did not want it to be heard.

But YouTube picked it up and it has gone viral.

If you haven't already, give it a listen (the link in the first or second post). You may learn something.

It's bloody well about time that this realistic and proven method of solving our current economic problems became known, rather than the so-called "trickle-down theory," which never has worked.

But, of course, the usual collection of nay-sayers and trolls felt impelled to leap in and do their usual shit-stirring.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:00 AM

I have a correction to make....I've been posting that the banksters and corporations have been sitting on a trillion of our tax payed dollars. The number is actually just over TWO trillion!
Gosh, and to think Obama needs to cut social programs and unemployment!
You tax dollars at work!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The REALLY Big Lie
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:26 AM

And what is Obama supposed to do about this? What can he legally do when, to do anything, he has to buck the current Congress?

The BANKS have the money. The Government does not.

And there is no assurance that social programs are going to be cut. This is what the Republicans (like Paul Ryan) want to do.

DO try to keep up, Goofy.

Don Firth