Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:33 AM

Hi, AKS. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that poem I quoted in my OP, would you? Including what its translation is in English? I've been told by a Finnish online friend and some Finnish online acquaintances that that particular poem is written in the equivalent of Middle English. And am I right in thinking that those poems about Kullervo come from all over the Finland/Russia border, both Ingria and south Karelia?

BTW, you might know that this story was also Tolkien's favourite Finnish folktale. He did a retelling of it in 1914 but never finished it, which you can find here: The Story of Honto Taltewenlen (Kullervo, son of Kalervo) by J.R.R. Tolkien, with notes by Verlyn Flieger. In that version, the incest is the result of a curse by the evil mistress.

The story was the basis of Tolkien's later Narn I Hin Hurin, The Children of Hurin, which also has a young hero, Turin, whose name is similar to one of the names of the incestuous brother in some of the Ingrian songs separated from his family as a child, living in a foster home, where he is taunted by a member of the household, who he later kills. He then falls in love with his unknown sister, then kills himself with his talking sword, asking it to drink his blood, when he learns who she is.

In The Children of Hurin, Turin and Nienor, his sister, actually get married and Nienor gets pregnant. Glaurung, the Dark Lord Morgoth's greatest dragon, who cursed her with amnesia, tells her, after listing all of Turin's bad qualities and deeds when he meets her, "But the worst of all his deeds you shall feel in yourself." Then she leaps off a cliff into the sea in despair and drowns herself- the same as the way Kullervo's sister dies. Soon after, Turin asks his sword Anglachel, which can talk, glows and loves to taste blood, to kill him, and falls upon it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: AKS
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 04:24 AM

Kullervo is the tragig figure of Finnish folklore. Some variations name him "Kalervon poika" /son of Kalervo/, some "Kalevanpoika" /mythical giant/, strong, handsome man with golden hair.

Several, slightly different versions have been collected. The one found in Kalevala is based mainly on version(s) collected in Inkeri (Ingria, Ingermanland, area around St. Petersburg). Here is the plot in short:

-Kalervo and Untamo get to quarrel with one another.
-Untamo raids Kalervo's house and kills everyone except a servant gir (who btw is pregnant by Kalervo.), she becomes Untamo's slave.
-Kullervo is born, grows beatiful and strong, but unfit to any real work. Several means to get rid of (=kill) him are tried with no success.
-Kullervo is sold to Seppo Ilmarinen (seppä/o = 'blacksmith'), who sends him to herd the cattle. Ilmarinen's wife does not like Kullervo at all and bakes a stone into his bread one day.
-Kullervo's puukko (=knife) gets broken when cutting the bread. That drives him frantic, because that particular knife is the only thing left to remind him of his real father.
-Kullervo conjures bears and wolves to kill the evil wife and her cows – and runs away.
-Miraculously he finds his family alive, only his sister missing. He is sent to take the tax money to the collector, and on the way back meets a fair lass, whom he seduces – but later finds out her to be his sister. Sister drowns herself into the rapids.
-Ashamed and in despration Kullervo sets himself to war against Untamo's house. While on campaign he comes to know that, finally, his closest have died one after another. He succeeds to destroy Untamo's kin, returns home but finds no peace of mind.

-so finally:
Kullervo, Kalervon poika, tempasi terävän miekan / Kullervo, Kalervo's son, pulled (his) sharp sword
katselevi, kääntelevi, kyselevi, tietelevi / looks at, turning over, asks, inquires
Kysyi mieltä miekaltansa, tokko tuon tekisi mieli /asked his sword's opinion, whether it would mind
syöä syyllistä lihoa, viallista verta juoa / to eat guilty meat, to drink sinful blood

Miekka mietti miehen mielen, arvasi uron pakinan / the sword thought man's mind, guessed brave's speech
Vastasi sanalla tuolla: "Miks' en söisi mielelläni, / answered with a word thus: why wouldn't I willingly eat
söisi syyllistä lihoa, viallista verta joisi? /eat guilty meat, drink sinful blood
Syön lihoa syyttömänki, juon verta viattomanki." / I do eat meat of the not guilty, drink blood of the innocent

Here's the almost iconic painting of Kullervo's Curse by Akseli Gallén-Kallela.

AKS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:21 AM

*In that tale, too, she's torn apart by wolves and bears.*

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:18 AM

There's also an Estonian tale, The Royal Herd-Boy, along the same lines. There too is the evil mistress who abuses the young herdboy, who's of royal/noble origin.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 10:11 PM

*(useful information)*

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 10:10 PM

@Bob and Leeneia, and anyone with : Interestingly, in researching folktales and their forms in different cultures (in order to how other people have solved the same question of how to transfer stories to a different cultural context). I came across various forms of the Cinderella story and other folktales like say Jack and The Beanstalk in different parts of the world, even in parts of America. But unfortunately not in my part of the world, for some reason.

Seems to me that the Kullervo story, both in folktale form and Kalevala form, is a Finnish/Karelian variant of "Cinderlad" or "Ash Boy" tales with a wicked mistress/employer taking the stepparent role.

Also, it seems weird to me that the original folktale, found in variants of folk poems in Finland and Karelia,(the version of the story used in the poems of the Kalevala comes from the shores of Lake Ladoga in southern Karelia) has no distinctive local American variants despite the number of Finnish immigrants to America, particularly in Appalachia, where the really distinctive variants of European tales seem to be from. You could easily take out the Finnish elements, transplant the story to somewhere in the States, and it would still be the story of Kullervo.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 08:42 PM

"thanks"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:24 PM

That's certainly interesting about the parallels in Alaska, Canada, and Greenland. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 10:42 PM

@Bob: What does that mean?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:36 PM

Kittos! bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 07:59 PM

*Kaujjarjuk*

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 07:48 PM

@leeneia: I never really noticed that element of the plot before. Interestingly, in the Kalevala, Untamo, the orphan's uncle, says that he'll sell Kullervo, the boy, to Karelia, "to the blacksmith, Ilmarinen/there to swing the heavy hammer."

But, as we've seen, that's not what happened.

A similar tale turns up in Alaska, Canada, and Greenland. In this story, the boy is called Kaujjarjak, Quadjaq, and other names, and he usually pounds whale blubber, a similarly degrading job. But he still takes his revenge through bears and a knife still plays an important role in the plot (giving him a knife was one of the kindest things anyone did for the kid).

Knowing that aspect of the story makes this passage,

   -snip-
"Of the youth am I the poorest,
Hapless lad and full of trouble,
Evil luck to me befallen!
I alas! must idly wander
O'er the hills and through the valleys,
As a watch-dog for the cattle!"
-From John Martin Crawford's 1888 full translation of the Kalevala, which is also where the first quoted passage came from

which is Kullervo's lament about his bad situation, more poignant.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 12:40 PM

There's another thing going on in the story. The orphan is living at the blacksmith's, and if he's healthy enough, he could learn to be a smith, too. However, the wife sends him out to herd animals, a job that's far less rewarding. She's denying him a future.

In many traditional societies, herding the animals is a kid's task. It doesn't pay anything, and it's not well-regarded. Basically, "any warm body could do it." A smith, however, is a respected man who is well paid.

By the way, there are a bunch of enjoyable mystery novels by Donna Andrews where the main character is a modern-day, female blacksmith. She sells her hand-made ironware at fairs. So you don't have to be a Hercules to be a blacksmith.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 07:34 PM

Oh, and did.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:53 PM

*Sorry, that should be so and extremely valuable, especially in a region that (in the 19th century at least), frequently experienced famine and poverty.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:42 PM

@leeneia: That's fascinating, since Idid find references to a biblical reference in that song. Obviously some themes are common; the idea of stone in bread is ''so'' shocking and dramatic because a loaf of bread was ''extremely valuable'' both in Biblical Palestine and in Russian Karelia, so baking a stone into it was a violation of social norms. Add the fact that the boy is an orphan, and the mistress's wickedness symbolises the possible victimisation faced by the orphan who had to work for their keep.

I think the song may have been intended as a cautionary tale on how not to treat children, especially orphans. Sorry if this post's a bit rambling!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 09:32 AM

I did some searching, Morwen, but couldn't find anything. However, I did see an interesting tie-in with the Bible verse which asks, "Which of you, if your son asked you for bread, would give him a stone? Or if he asked you for fish, would give him a snake?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Kalervon Poika (Trad. Finnish)
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:56 AM

For reference, here's what I found after searching (first on a Finnish database
-through Google Translate- I can't speak or read Finnish, and anyway according to an online friend, this song is written in a very old dialect of Finnish.) It's a variant of the Kalova Boy's Revenge song/poem.

Tuo kaunis Kalervon poika
Kaupattih on Karjalaha
Vienahan Vienäjän moalla,
Kahtee kattilah ranihe,

Viiteh viikate kuluhe,
Kuutee kuokan ruopivohe.
Tuo kaunis Kalervon poika
Jopa noin sanoiksi virkki:

"Kulla työllä uusi orja,
10 Roavolla rahan alaini?"
Pantih lapsen katsojiksi.


"Syötä lasta, syö itseki,
Katso lasta, kaiva silmä."
Syötti lasta, söi itseki,
15 Katso lasta, kaivo silmän.

Jopa noin sanoiksi virkki:
"Kull' on työllä uusi orja.
Roavolla rahan alaini?"
Pantih nuotan soutajiksi.

20 Hänpä näin sanoiksi virkki:
"Soutanenko veän takoa,
Vain souan asun mukaha."
Vetäjä on Venarin poika,
Perimies Pelasen poika

25 Hänpä noin sanoiksi virkki:
"Mikä siitä soutajasta,
Kuin ei soua veäntakoa,
Kuin soutaa asun mukahe."

Souti hankat hajalla,
30 Levitti lesen venehen,
Katajaiset koaret katko.

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki:
"Kull' on työllä uusi orja,
Roavolla rahan alaini?"

35 Pantih häntä tarpojiksi.
Hänpä noin sanoiksi virkki:
"Tarponenko veän takoa,
Vain tarvon asun mukahan?"
Vetäjä on Venarin poika,
40 Perimies Pelosen poika,

Jop' on sanoiksi virkki:
"Mikä siit' on tarpojasta,
Kun ei tarvo veän takoa,
Kuin tarpou asun mukaha."

45 Honkan varreksi hotasi,
Pani poajen tarpomeksi,
Tarpo nuotan tappurahe,
Vejen velliksi sevotti,
Kalat liivakse litsotti,

50 Kalojah hän käsin) kantoi.
Itse noin sanoikse virkki:
"Kull' on työllä uusi orja,
Roavolla rahan alaini?
Pantih hänt' kasen ajoho.

55 Leikkai puuta kaksi, kolme,
Itse nousi kannon peähä:
"Kuni huuto kuulunohe,
Sini kaski koatukohe,
Älkä vesa venykkä,


60 Älkä kanto kasvakka,
Olen hyvän ottakka,
Vain älkä terävän tekkä
Kasessa Kalervon poijan."

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki:
65 "Kulla työllä uusi orja,
Roavolla rahan alaim?"

Pantih häntä paimeneksi,
Viijen vitan vartihaksi,
Puun kaheksan katsojaksi.

70 Mäni päivä männiköllä,
Kului päivä kuusikolla,
Vieri vehnä koivikolla,
Karkasi katajikolla.
Jo emäntä koista huusi:
75 "Aik' on syyvä uuven orjan,
Ravita rahan alaisen."

Veti veitsehe kivehe,
Karahutti kallivoho:
"Syöjätär paha emäntä,
80 Kiven leipo leipähäni,
Vehnän peälitse veteli,
Vejin veitseni kivehe,
Karahutin kallivoho."

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki:
85 "Millä maksan naisen naurun,
Naisen naurun, piian pilkan,
Emännän pahan piännän?
Millä jaksan, sillä maksan."

Jo emäntä koista huuti:
90 "Mist' on paimen pillin soanut,
Rautivo rahasen torven?"

Jätti lehmäset leholla,
Maion antajat aholla,
Hatasarvet hoavikolla,

95 Kultasarvet kuusikolla,
Ajoi köllit kotihe,
Karhut kirjokartanohe.

"Oi sie entini emäntä
Tule lehmies lypsämähe,

100 Roavahis roavittamahe,
Vaikeitas valuttamahe!"
Mäni lehmies lypsämähe,
Roavahia rovittamahe,
Vaikeita valuttamahe.

105 Susi peällä suimastihe,
Karhu peällä koamistihe,
Jalan reijestä revitti,
Keän katkoi kalovehesta,
Kiskoi karvat kinttuloista.

110 Hän noin sanoiksi virkki:
"Oi Ukko ylijumala
Eli toatto taivahini,
Nossa pilvi luotehesta,
Toini kohta koilisesta,

Oi Ukko ylijumala
Eli toatto taivahini,
Nossa pilvi luotehesta,
Toini kohta koilisesta,

115 Tapa sie Kalervon poika
Rakehilla rautasilla,
Niekloilla teräsnenillä!"
Hänpä joutu kuulomassa,

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki:
120 "Oi Ukko ylijumala,
Toatto taivon valtivoija,
Nossa pilvi luotehesta,
Toini lännestä lähetä,
Vihmu vettä taivosesta,

125 Mettä pilvistä pirota,
Jott' ei tukki tulta ottais,
Vänttä veäntäisi savuo,
Suurina sotakesänä,
Vainovuonna vaikiena."

130 Kuulin minä kummempia,
Näin minä imehempiä
Hämehessä käyessäni.

Hämehess' on härkä suuri,
Sonni Suomess' lihava,
135 Ei ole härkä suuren suuri,
Eikä ole härkä pienen pieni,
Keski lehmien vasoja;
Päivän lenti peäskölintu
Härän sarvien välitse,

140 Hätäsestä peähä peäsi;
Kuun juoksi kesäorava
Härän häntäluuta myöte,
Eipä vielä peähä peässy,
Härän hännällä lepäsi,

145 Siit' on vasta peähän peäsi;
Kesän kärppä keäntelih
Yhen kyntyvön sijalla.
Etsitähkö iskijövä,
Tahotahko tappajoa.

150 Läksi ukko iskemähe,
Palvani pitelemähe,
Virokannas viilemähe.
Härkä peätä heiluhutti,
Mussat silmät muljahutti.

155 Ukko kuusehe kajahti,
Palvani pajun nenähä,
Virokannas kannon peähä.

Ukko kuusesta toruve,
Palvani pajun nenästä,
160 Virokannas kannon peästä:
"Kuin mie tullen toisen kerran,
Soan verta seitsemän venehtä,
Satoa syltä makkaroita,
Satoa puutova lihoja,
165 Kuuta kuusi leiviskeä."

Siitä mäni toisen kerran,
Ukko hammast' hivove,
Palvani pitelöyve,
Virokannas viilömähe:

170 Sai verta seitsemän venehtä,
Sata syltä makkaroita,
Sata puutova lihoja,
Kuuta kuusi leivisköä.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:11 PM

Refresh. Can anyone help?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 11:29 AM

*takes*.

Subject: Lyr Req: Karelian folk song: orphan boy's revenge
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 11:25 AM

I'm drafting a retelling of the story of Kullervo called The Pearl Of Combat, following Grishka's advice to find a shorter folktale to retell first. This story is dungeon punk (cyberpunk/high fantasy), loosely based on its source, and the country of Kalevala, its setting, is modelled culturally on Karelia and southeastern Finland as portrayed in the Kalevala. (Karjala, Finnish/Karelian for "Karelia" is one of its Northern provinces) It has colonised Pohjola, based on Siberia and southwestern Alaska. The Maiden of Pohjola's culture is based on Siberian and Central Alaskan Yup'ik cultures, and Kullervo's is based on the Aleut.

I found out that there is a Karelian Kalevala-metre folk song called "The Revenge of The Kalova Boy" which is the seed of the whole Kullervo story. In brief, the Kalova boy is an orphan living in a blacksmith's house. His master's wife doesn't like him and sends him out to be a cowherd, baking a stone in his loaf of bread. He discovers what she's done when he tries to cut the bread and his knife breaks. He take his revenge, turning all her cows into bears, getting them to maul her when she leaves the house to milk them. I know that one of the lines is "Tuo kaunis, Kalovan poika (The handsome Kalova boy)" but can't find anything else.

Does anyone know anything about this song and its lyrics? Could someone help me find a full text with an English translation, if one exists?