BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???

Subject: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:21 PM

Well, we are anticipating the arrival of the cicadas. That should be a noise "treat." But at least it is natural. But what about other stuff, the stuff that humans make and impose on ourselves?

The UPS truck that stopped by a little while ago was properly muffled. Yet, it was very noisy just with the mechanical noise of the engine. Same with the construction trucks, front end loaders, and such. And lawnmowers and leaf blowers. And so on. And radios from cars that you KNOW that the person in the car is killing their ears because it is hurting YOUR ears from 50 feet away.

Some restaurants have some sort of soundscape that varies from somewhat soft to you-can't-talk-over-the-sound. Choice of soundscape varies, too--sometimes classical music (OK, I guess), sometimes pop, and in the Indian place we like to go, Indian music(!). But volumes vary widely. (Is this imposed on the joint by some suit in central office, or chosen by the manager?) Some pubs just have so much voice noise that I don't know how anyone can hear the person next to them, much less have a conversation and exchange phone numbers.

Emergency vehicles get louder so that you can hear them over the ever-improving sound insulation in your car because of which they must be still louder so that you can hear them, and then you have to get better sound insulation in your car to keep the noise out, and so on.

Some restaurants have accoustics the amplify the soundscape to a roar. And many places where people congregate, even medical waiting rooms have visual noise that you can't avoid, and that the staff get upset if you try to turn it off, even if noone is listening to/watching it. And in many stores these days, we are "serenaded" by whatever they play, mostly sales promotions--blue light special in aisle 6, etc.

Some of these sounds are "merely" annoying. Some are downright dangerous to the ears and cause permanent hearing loss, in addition to making those hearing it more jumpy.

If one complains about any of these, does that make one a "sound nazi?" Or are we "allowed" to complain and insist on a softer environment? Well, I have my own answer, of course. That is that we are absolutely entitled to a softer soundscape. It is even a Libertarian issue in that we have a right to not be assaulted, and these assaults are inescapable. Anyone care to comment?

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:29 PM

Our world is being polluted with unnecessary noise and it is getting much worse. I believe it is making us sick.
Recently at a grocery store I said to the clerk, "Will you please turn that damned racket down"? It was that ubiquitous screeching that tries to pass for music that invades our senses everywhere we go. He said, "Most people like it, some even sing along, they find it soothing!"
I said to him, "It has the opposite effect on me, it makes me want to break things or hurt someone."
He said, "Well, we can't have that." he turned it off.

Don't let them annoy you, complain, loudly!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:36 PM

I am extremely sensitive to noise when I have migraines. I have to ask people if the sounds are really loud, as they seem much louder to me than others.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:49 PM

We live on a quiet street. Just a garbage truck or street sweeper once in a while. But about 2 miles east is the airport and the Marines in Jacksonville, NC area send very noisy Ospreys, Harriers and F18s down here on training runs, south and west are train tracks. In the summer, after a good rain, in the swamp near our back door we get peepers and crickets that can compete with the trains which are half a mile away.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:25 PM

I was in a popular barbecue place that has the usual loud environment - ugly music playing and customers trying to talk over it, often made louder by beer.

At one point I thought to myself, "This is so miserable. Some idiot is seeing how high and shrill an electric guitar can get, and a baby is crying, too." The so-called music was so shrill it was actually hurting me.

Only later did it click that the baby was naking those thin, sharp cries because the damn 'music' was hurting her. How puerile can you get, hurting a little baby with your high-energy noodling?

Next time I'll be prepared to SAY SOMETHING.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:39 PM

Kendall... some stores want to annoy you so that you buy and get out. Why some idiot thinks this sales "tactic" applies to a gocery store is beyond my comprehension. You would think they would want to sooooothe customers to get them to browse longer instead of the hamburger joint's "Eat and get out."

I go to The Superstore and I get Celine Dion wailing away and I just wanna get it and get out. I go to Sobeys and I get the sweetest tabboo. and it's just barely audible. THAT is what keeps me in the stroe. That and the girl watchin. >;-) I love flirtin with the deli gal... she's... ahem!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:55 PM

I think I may to have to go with the guitarist on that one Leeneia. If he was paid to be there he needs to do his thing. If you are going to speak to anyone speak to the parent. Than again, who brings a baby to a loud BBQ joint? One of the musicians might well have been the parent.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 06:57 PM

"He said, "Well, we can't have that." he turned it off."

You are a persuasive man!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:04 PM

When it is necessary. On the job it's called "Officer presence". Barnie Fife lacked it.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:29 PM

I dunno.... I never get exposed to a lot of really obnoxious "music" in stores. Just the same old shit that passes for "easy listening." It does sometimes make me want to grab Elton John by the neck and scream, "You guess that's why they call it the blues? What the fuck do you know about why anybody'd call it the blues? You're richer than four feet up a Brahma bull's ass! Last time you had any direct experience with anything resembling the blues, your name was still Reginald!" But it doesn't actually hurt my ears.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:45 PM

LOL Kendall!

BWL, LOL as well! I know Reg Dwight played blues piano with Long John Baldry. I've never heard him play blues piano, I don't think I've heard him play the blues. I've heard Baldry sing, saw him in concert once. I think his band was Canadian at that time. Actually I'm not sure that Baldry knows exactly why they call it the Blues either.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: DebC
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:05 PM

I have a real problem with excessive background noise. I have left restaurants where the acoustics are live because I couldn't have a conversation with whom I was sitting.

I cannot try to talk over this because it would damage my voice.

Times Square has a paralyzing effect on me. When I have to go to NYC (our Union office is in the theater district) I try to avoid Times Square by taking a different route to the subway.

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 09:47 PM

See, saulgoldie, it's not just you. And it's me, too! Sometimes I think I'm the only member of my generation who didn't ruin her hearing by listening to loud rock music. A few days ago I was complaining on another thread about the loud music in evening exercise classes at my local Y. I, too, hate it when the music from another car is so loud that my car shakes. Sometimes I go to a folk concert where the musicians are folk-rock types who are too loud for me. I try to sit as far away from the speakers as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:10 PM

Having hearing problems is bad enough. If there is too much noise from the "background music" in a restaurant we will ask them to turn it down. We haven't been refused yet. We also ask for a "quiet corner." Perhaps if more people did that it might have an effect.

Do we REALLY need nine or ten televisions showing sports? Especially re-runs? Even with the volume turned off? And why is Fox News on the TV when it's turned to a news station?

While I'm ranting: If you go to a restaurant which is something more than McDonald's why don't you leave your very young children, the ones who can't keep quiet and stay in one place, home? They engender thoughts of infanticide in other diners.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:11 PM

Shisssshhhhhh....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:53 PM

So many shops here are staffed by young people, who seem to be half deaf because they have their music playing so loudly on the speaker system that my wife won't stay in there, or sometime won't even GO in there.

When you stop at the lights, the lowered car next to you is often positively vibrating with base-and-drums. Deaf youngsters, again.

Or they will be. A audio survey was done in the main street of how loud people had their earphones set. The average was at a point well above where a business would have to supply its employees with earmuffs, and well into the risk-of-permanent-damage level.
So it is going to get worse with so many clothears about.

Then there is visual overload when you are driving.....

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 11:52 PM

Back in the mid-late 80s my young colleague (late 20s) reviewed music for the local free gig guide paper. He already had industrial deafness & had only been listening to music for about 10 years, 3 or 4 as a reviewer.

Like ChantyLass I didn't listen to LOUD music in my younger days - tho now my 61 year old ears are fading a bit.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 11:54 PM

I won't stay in a restaurant playing Fox news. It upsets my digestion and I am not paying to be proselytized.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 02:12 AM

I suppose that many of us who are perturbed by noises, have a hearing loss. I've had my hearing loss since weapons qualification in Army basic training, when I didn't have time to put my earplugs back in when they fell out. I compensate for it pretty well, but I've never been able to shut out conflicting noises. Sometimes, it drives me near crazy. After some parties, I'm ready to kill. Three hours in a din is sheer torture.

I paid $80 for two tickets to a symphony performance this afternoon. I like live performances of classical music because I hear so much more in a live performance.

But there was a lady behind us with a breathing machine. It made a constant hum, and a regular blast of "ssss" when the air went up into her nose. I felt sympathy for the woman, but I have a hearing loss and could hear very little of the first half of the concert. I feel embarrassed being fussy about interfering sounds, but I really hate it when I hear conflicting noises when I want to hear music.

I also get really bugged at singarounds when there's talking while we're singing. Some people talk really loud, so they can communicate above the music - probably because they, too, have hearing losses. Or maybe it's just because they're assholes.

Am I out of line for being fussy about this? I realize that my hearing loss makes this stuff bother me more than it bothers most people, but it really ruins a musical experience for me when there is conflicting noise.

We moved for the second half of the concert, and I got to hear Pictures at an Exhibition without interference. It was lovely, and that was the piece I really wanted to hear. Hearing it live, I caught nuances I have never heard on recordings - and it's one of my favorite pieces.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 12:41 PM

Etymotic ear plugs & earphones to make your own soundscape.

Noise cancelling earphones only work well at lower frequencies - but are another solution.

But it is a problem, not least for wildlife. Songbirds have been measured at higher volumes to compete with noise that masks their territorial outpourings.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 12:50 PM

All y'all be thankful you are not marine mammals at US Navy practice range. Try having 130 db of sonar stuffed down your blowhole while a depth charge is going off!!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 12:51 PM

"Actually I'm not sure that Baldry knows exactly why they call it the Blues either."
.,,.
Actually he doesn't 'know' anything ~~ he has been dead for 8 years!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 02:35 PM

A few years back I lived in an apartment, with another directly above. Sound seemed to travel doward.

A single girl lived in the apartment, and she worked late at night. She frequently would arrive home from work with her boyfriend, and the loud "bedroom sounds", with yells and moans would always wake me up. Her boyfriend would eventually would leave and I had hopes for a sound sleep. But, often her girlfriend would arrive after he left. I would hear similar moans and yells from above that kept me awake for another half hour. No, I did not complain, as it seemed to personal to mention to her. I just got accustomed to it - but, it did cut into my sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 08:09 PM

I've told more than a few shop keepers that I will not pay to be annoyed.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 06:10 AM

The single most infuriating noise related imposition, for me, is the way in which TV ad breaks are played at volume 11.

You've set your TV volume at a comfortable level for watching the loudest war film in existence, then comes the ad break. BAM!

Some Corporate Arsehole is screaming at the top of his voice, and just in case your next door neighbour can't hear him clearly, they whack the volume sky high and blast you out of your chair.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 06:35 AM

In a garden centre this weekend and there was competition between R1 or KISS or whatever (nasty electronic muzak) and some little TV blaring out an advert for some new chemical whizz thing. I really won't be going back, he's lost this customer. It was pretty empty in there too. I can't see too many of those who spend the most dosh in garden centres (often middle aged and retired people) liking that kind of environment to browse for bulbs and flowers in.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 06:38 AM

And on gardening and retired people and noise, my fella gets wound up by the fact that retired next door neighbours will religiously mow and trim hedges and other noisy outdoor jobs on a Sunday when he likes to have a read or sit in the peace of the garden. It's not just the young folk that can be a noisy pain!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 08:01 AM

It seems that commercials now outweigh the programs. I sometimes forget what I'm watching.
I remember when the movie "Midway" first hit the tv, I counted 51 commercials and it has gotten worse.
I will not watch or listen to them.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:36 AM

Being of a different generation, I listen to my music loud. I enjoy it that way. Things that make my father cringe. :-)
I am one of those who sings along in the grocery store if I know the song. I also have the ability to block out much of what is going on around me; the behavior of my fellow shoppers irritates me much quicker than the music the store is playing. I find it interesting that noise (read music) you don't like is "racket" but noise you do enjoy is fine. Just because it's not my taste doesn't mean I should be able to speak for those who are enjoying it.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:46 AM

All very fine for now Becca, but one day you will have to listen through a hearing aid because of the damage you are inflicting on your ears, which is fine, as long as you don't feel you have a right to damage the ears I have carefully looked after for 72 years by inflicting your preferred volume level on me.

I find many of your generation polluting the air around me on the erroneous assumption that I share their taste in music.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:46 AM

>>>From: MtheGM - PM
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 12:51 PM

"Actually I'm not sure that Baldry knows exactly why they call it the Blues either."
.,,.
Actually he doesn't 'know' anything ~~ he has been dead for 8 years!

~M~ <<<

It is nice that someone noticed. I don't care what they say. You are a good man! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:51 AM

Don,

I'm in my 40s, not 20s. I also listen at my preferred volume in my car or in my home. Unless you are in my car or in my home your opinion means little to me.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:54 AM

Thanks, Jack. Nice to be appreciated!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:56 AM

I didn't mean that last sentence quite as callously as it came out. But I won't take responsibility for being the first "loud music" generation. That's ridiculous. The 60s and 70s were just as loud as the 80s and 90s.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 10:05 AM

A relevant story IMO from my long-life recollections. I remember my father once, about 1970, holding forth on a programme he had heard on the radio. "There were these young people, and they pointed out to them that if they went on listening to music at the volume they kept playing it, they would finish up deaf. And do you know what they said? They answered that THEY DIDN'T CARE!" - he concluded in horror ~~ and took a long drag on his cigarette.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 10:39 AM

""I didn't mean that last sentence quite as callously as it came out. But I won't take responsibility for being the first "loud music" generation. That's ridiculous. The 60s and 70s were just as loud as the 80s and 90s.""

Indeed they were Becca, but referring back to the post I responded to:
""I also have the ability to block out much of what is going on around me; the behavior of my fellow shoppers irritates me much quicker than the music the store is playing. I find it interesting that noise (read music) you don't like is "racket" but noise you do enjoy is fine. Just because it's not my taste doesn't mean I should be able to speak for those who are enjoying it."",

you do seem to be suggesting that if I want to go shopping, my ears too are fair game for people who feel they have a right to force music on me in every circumstance.

That seems more than ordinarily callous, if you'll excuse the comment, but not surprising these days, when 8000 watts of base in the boot of a mini, blasting the ears of all who pass by, is considered OK by the most thoughtless generation in history.

I'm glad you are not of that generation, but you do, I'm sure, see my point.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 01:27 PM

You have combined two separate statements, Don. When I am enjoying my chosen music in the privacy of my own home or car I will and do play it as loud as I so choose.
I am also more tolerant of that music played in grocery stores, as if it isn't something I enjoy I can simply block it out. I have never been in a grocery store where the music was so loud as to be overwhelming.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM

I almost always wear my 15dB-reduction ear plugs outside the house. Always wear them for highway driving, also for low speed driving if I'll have the radio on; usually wear them for instrumental music-making with more than 1 or 2 others (depending on the room and the players), rarely need them for a cappella singing. I wouldn't dream of entering a chain restaurant like Kelsey's or Boston Pizza without them. As for stores with too-loud music, I often will go in and tell them I need [what they sell] but shall buy it where the music volume does not cause me pain, and then I leave. I have no patience for noise pollution. While I'm grousing about pollution, I'll add my 2 cents about scent pollution too--both types are a problem in our back yard. Yes, lawnmowers and leaf blowers, etc., which are made all the worse from being accompanied by the wretched stink of "fresh scented" dryer sheets that literally sting my nostrils as much as leaf blowers sting my ears. I am not generally in favour of gated communities but if one opens up that restricts noise and forbids perfumes, I'll move there in a flash!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM

I was once, many years ago, in the beautiful old Lewis's department store in Liverpool. Those who knew it will remember its interesting layout: a vast central atrium with the floors rising gallery style. Suddenly, notes of music came over the tannoy. "Oh, tut! no escaping that horrible muzak!" the annoyed expressions all around said ~~ which changed completely as we glanced upward to the edge of the top gallery, and saw a harpsichordist and a couple of lutenists and violists playing the beautiful baroque music we were hearing -- live ! Frowns were replaced by smiles all around. I have been contemplating the psychological implications of that incident, and those reactions, ever since.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 04:06 PM

It all boils down to manners. I would never inflict my music on anyone. It's the Golden rule.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 04:53 PM

"you do seem to be suggesting that if I want to go shopping, my ears too are fair game for people who feel they have a right to force music on me in every circumstance."

I would suggest that the owners of the property, the store in this case, have a right to run their business as they see fit and you have options of complaining, shopping elsewhere or putting up with it.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 05:06 PM

I'm quite hypersensitive to noise, not just music but any intrusive or over-loud sound. But I'm very lucky, as our tiny village is completely silent at night, (and pitch dark into the bargain as there are no street lights.) Over-exposure to stimulation such as noise or light does, I'm sure, make us nervy and aggressive. It isn't natural.
I remember vividly last autumn sitting on a bale of straw at the edge of a newly-ploughed field near here (in Norfolk UK). My feet were on the good earth and the silence was palpable. I could almost feel Nature breathing gently, and felt tears come to my eyes. It was truly a memorable and beautiful moment of total peace.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,roderick warner
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 05:17 PM

Moan moan moan... I'm going to put on some of my favourite band's music: Wolf Eyes - and crank it up. I'm 66...

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 07:33 PM

They are your ears, Mate. Ruin them if you wish.

My problem is with UNNECESSARY noise. Motorcycles with no mufflers, idiots in traffic with speakers that are worth far more than the car they are in. Oh, I also have a problem with stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 09:24 AM

""I would suggest that the owners of the property, the store in this case, have a right to run their business as they see fit and you have options of complaining, shopping elsewhere or putting up with it.""

Just what I'd expect from you Jack, supporting those who inflict whatever they want on others. I do indeed shop where I don't have to have that crap, but I certainly suffer on the street from imbecile radioheads with multi megawatt motorised boom boxes.

Now let's hear your words of wisdom about how they too have a right to ride roughshod over my rights.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 09:42 AM

Your right to make a joyful noise unto yourself stops where my ears begin.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 09:59 AM

Don, I am completely in agreement with you and Kendall about those big burly grown up hairy children and their expensive noisemakers.

The Harley's with loud pipes should be illegal everywhere. When I lived in Ottawa the were banned in the down town. Making loud noises to intentionally bother and get attention from other users of the street should be subject to legal penalty. Confiscation would work best.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 10:59 AM

Selfishness and lack of basic manners, that's what it boils down to.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:07 PM

I am certainly appreciative of Kendall's remarks - all of them. Also of leaving a store or other venue that that pollutes my ears or nostrils - connected to my brain which takes issue with being assaulted.

My idea of real living is NO noise but the wildlife, no lights at night but those provided, or not, by nature, no odours but those indigenous to my home turf. Not easy to achieve these days!

I am told I have a "slight" hearing loss but my sensitivity to noise requires ear plugs in pocket at all times. It is my brain damage from environmental toxins which make it difficult to impossible to separate sounds - and carry on a conversation with background noise. It is called Auditory Processing disorder and is in the brain, not the ears. My partner mediates between me and the world by interpreting for me, not because I cannot hear but because I hear a mess of goulash and cannot separate out the meat.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 08:13 AM

I have that same problem. If two or more people are talking at once, I can not understand any of them. I may be rude, but I often speak out ONE AT A TIME PLEASE!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 11:56 AM

""I am certainly appreciative of Kendall's remarks - all of them. Also of leaving a store or other venue that that pollutes my ears or nostrils - connected to my brain which takes issue with being assaulted.""

As always there is another very practical reason for feeling that the necessity to leave premises with unwanted music, rather than to have ones feelings and needs considered by the owners.

By having to choose between ear damage and shopping at my local supermarkets, I am condemned to paying around 5-10% more for my basic needs.

Can that be taken as the reasonable exercise by the stores of the right to deafen.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:01 PM

Yeah! And if that don't work, open fire.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 05:07 PM

Don: maybe ear plugs in your pocket could save you the extra money!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 07:19 PM

I have to eat, therefore I have to shop. You don't have to make unnecessary noise.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 07:43 PM

Here in the U.S. a federal law went into effect a few weeks ago that commercials during television programming couldn't be louder than the program itself. If a TV station is in violation of this rule, the citizen can go to the FCC's website and register a complaint. After that, it's anybody's guess whether the FCC takes these complaints seriously - but then again, it is federal law. At least now a citizen has some legal redress against this specific form of noise pollution.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:58 AM

One of the characteristics of Aspergers Syndrome is an intolerance to noise, and the inability to listen to more than one thing at a time.
But BOY, can they/we concentrate!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:58 AM

""Here in the U.S. a federal law went into effect a few weeks ago that commercials during television programming couldn't be louder than the program itself.""

Roll on the day when that happens in the UK.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 10:33 AM

But, what if they set the volume at the level of a gun fight? or a car chase?

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:18 AM

Good question, Kendall. Actually, the FCC says:

"Effective December 13, 2012, the FCC's rules require television commercial advertisements to have the same AVERAGE volume as the programs that they accompany. The FCC established these rules to comply with the directive of Congress contained in the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation (CALM) Act (PDF)."

However they calculate the average, I don't think the commercials will come out at the loudness of a gunfight.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:26 PM

BANG BANG

YOU'RE

something or other...

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Rumncoke
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:46 PM

When I used to go to places where there was loud music I used to wear ear defenders - I do have tinnitus thanks to a moron with a starting pistol, but my general level of hearing is still quite acute and I am told it is above average for someone 62 years old. (If so why don't the bats squeak any more? It gives me quite a shock when a stealth bat swoops low.)

Sure I got some odd looks, but it also made some sound engineers go a bit thoughtful.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 01:34 PM

Some few years ago my Beautiful Wife and I and one or two of our kids went to what was then a new restaurant in Indianapolis, called Joe's Crab Shack. Our time and other commitments made it necessary (we thought) to eat there rather than other restaurants.

The sound system was cranked WAY up, so loud that the crowd were trying (unsuccessfully) to talk to each other over it. The waitress couldn't understand our shouted food order, so that we eventually got a wrong (and expensive) item.

But there's more: The group at the neighboring table (3 or 4 feet away) had a birthday boy/girl in their party, it seems, so about ten of the wait staff gathered around to (allegedly) sing "Happy Birthday". They knew the combined sound level of the P.A. system and competing customer chatter wouldn't allow the folks at the table to hear them, so the leader of that ten-strong chorus had to use a BULL HORN for that joyous occasion!

I sat with my hands frantically pressed over my ears whenever I didn't really need them to eat or drink. Helped a little, though not much.

When presented with the erroneous bill (because the waitress hadn't been able to make out our order), I shouted directly into the ear of the wait-staff supervisor a request that the "music" be turned WAY down. Shouting, he managed to get across that "We would like to, but Corporate Headquarters, down in Texas, won't let us turn it down!"

They did delete the entire cost of the erroneous item because of the order mistake. But who ended up with that cost? It was the unfortunate waitress who had to pay for the mistake, we learned.

We bad-mouthed that restaurant far and wide, and never patronized it in the following eight or ten years. When we reluctantly went back there, as the guests of some friends, we found that somebody had gotten through to the high muckey-mucks in Texas, and the noise level was way down.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 01:35 PM

As I walk along I nearly always have a bit of a tune that I'm thinking about or a song I'm singing to myself . Then I go into a supermarket and a different tune is playing . Whether I like the musical tastes of the supermarket owner or not , the music being played will invariably conflict with the tune going on in my head . Grrr

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 04:04 PM

Is this overloud restaurant muzak an American thing? I don't think that restaurants who use it here in the UK generally play it all that loudly. We never have any difficulty conversing in the Costa Coffee at Ely Tesco's where we go quite often, even though there is a speaker playing quite quiet music in a nearby corner.

Is others' experience different here in UK?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: JennieG
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:24 PM

I don't know about in restaurants, but in many shops music is used as a marketing tool according to an article I read a few years ago.....sorry I can't link to it, can't find it, but it was in the Toronto Star. Shops pitch their stock and music at a certain demographic, and if you don't like the music played in that shop then you are not the customer they are after, it seems.

A local cafe to which Himself and I often go for a coffee has soft music playing, often gentle classical....not Wagner.....at just enough volume to be heard. It seems to make kitchen noises recede into the background and give privacy to other people's conversations, without being intrusive itself.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:03 PM

Years ago there was a drive in in Toronto that had a problem with teen agers hanging out, driving paying customers away, so they started playing classical music on there sound system. Problem solved.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: mayomick
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 08:10 AM

Understandable , but a pretty rotten use for classical music all the same, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 03:24 PM

""Is this overloud restaurant muzak an American thing? I don't think that restaurants who use it here in the UK generally play it all that loudly.""

I think UK rstaurants on the whole tend to be fairly good.
It's pubs, shops and diners like MDonalds and Burger King that seem not to understand the damage they can cause.

Funnily enough, one of the worst places to eat has no music at all.

Wetherspoons generally sound like an amplified parrot house. I have the same problems holding a conversation as I would at a disco. So much for the intended peaceful meal with the gentle hum of conversation. Everyone is shouting to be heard above all the others.

Ear plugs are not the answer, as they reduce my ability to hear even more severely.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:14 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:03 PM
Years ago there was a drive in in Toronto that had a problem with teen agers hanging out, driving paying customers away, so they started playing classical music on there sound system. Problem solved."

That's pretty funny! Though I always think that if teenagers have to resort to hanging around takeaways of an evening, that it's a pretty loud indicator of how little society thinks about and values young people. Children and adults are fully catered to, teens are expected to just eff off and are left to linger around cemeteries or car parks and then people get exorcised about 'feral youth'.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:25 PM

kendall, there are numerous activities available for young people but many of them don't seem interested. There are clubs for almost any type of sport. There are the Cadet branches of all the Forces. There are Scouting and Guiding groups, (and they're not by any means as 'twee' as they used to be; they offer adventure and interesting activities). There are music, choral and instrumental groups. Also St John Ambulance, Red Cross and other First Aid organisations. Not to mention the Junior branches of any and every church and religious community. There are also youth clubs, and clubs associated with the youngsters' schools. The possibilities are endless. I get quite cross when these feckless and idle young people whinge that 'there's nowhere to go and nothing to do.'

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:37 PM

Actually, Eliza, it was CS you were replying to, not Kendall. She was just quoting him.

Best

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:46 PM

Oops! Thank you Michael for pointing that out. And before anyone replies that these poor young folk haven't the money to do these things, most of them are free, and run by highly praiseworthy adults who give their time and expertise for nothing. My lovely neighbours' lad (in his teens) does his homework for two hours in the evening then plays floodlit hockey. He is in a photography club and has a little Saturday job at the village garage. The dear little lass on the other side of us goes horseriding and has saved up and bought a super pony. She too does a bit of work at the stables and in the village pub restaurant to earn enough to pursue her activities. Neither family is at all well-off, but their offspring don't 'hang around' or cause problems to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:53 PM

"" I get quite cross when these feckless and idle young people whinge that 'there's nowhere to go and nothing to do.'""

There are two sides to most stories Eliza. There's a group of about ten or twelve local teens who have, by dint of surveillance cameras and hassle from both shopkeepers and police, been driven away from our small town centre.

I used to feel intimidated by them with their hoodies hiding their faces, but they've settled on a low stone wall in our cul-de-sac, about twenty yards from my back gate, as a place to sit and hang out.

Acting on a suggestion from my son, who is a secondary school teacher, instead of trying to get them moved on, I stopped by to chat with them on a balmy summer evening and found them polite and respectful (once I had made it clear that I wasn't trying to shift them), shared a couple of hours of stimulating conversation and a bottle or two of shandy.

I talked with them about what was lacking and found that they were quite certain that local authorities cater very well for children, but don't have a clue as to what is needed for teens.

I mentioned youth clubs and scouts etc. and was surprised to find that the activities and guidance, games and such are exactly what they don't want. As one of them said to me ""When you were sixteen, did you want to go to anywhere that was run by somebody the same age as your Dad?""

They just want somewhere that they can hang out free from adults and buy a few soft (ish) drinks, and natter and socialise with their own age group.

I'm not saying that there are no feckless louts, but it's probably worth checking to see if they are really what you believe. You might get a surprise.

I regularly sit with them for a while on those nice summer evenings, and they welcome me as a friend.

We haven't had a tyre slashed or a car window broken for about four years.

The glass in my back door was smashed two weeks ago by a twelve year old from the other end of the estate and the police had the name and address of the culprit in less than an hour.

Just saying we don't always understand what it is they need and they are worth a second look.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:59 PM

Oh! and by the way, they think my music's Kewl!

No accounting for taste.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 06:37 PM

So, Don, all those suggestions are 'exactly what they don't want', and instead they just wish to 'hang out, natter and socialise'. Sounds pretty feckless to me, and a singularly useless and pointless waste of their time. And yes, when I was sixteen, I absolutely adored many of the activities I listed above. So do most of the young folk I know round here. At sixteen plus, they should be either studying or in work, which doesn't leave much time for 'hanging around'.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 01:03 AM

They should 'hang around', chewing the fat with their friends for some of the time. It is a valuable activity for a young person [or anyone else, for that matter] to socialise with one's contemporaries and discuss and natter about topics both grave and gay. But I agree with Eliza it is a terrible waste doing only that. I recall, many years ago, my sister being cross with my then teenage [now 60+!] nephew for spending a whole afternoon in a coffee bar with friends, & appealing to me [then a senior teacher] to support her; but climbing down when I pointed out the manifold youth group & sporting activities he was involved in most of his time, and how important social and intellectual, and even trivial, intercourse with his peer group was also.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 07:31 AM

""Sounds pretty feckless to me, and a singularly useless and pointless waste of their time.""

If you had troubled to read my comments Eliza, you might have noticed that I mentioned evenings.

Some of these teenagers are in school and some have jobs. Maybe a few are out of work, but I don't enquire as to their efforts to find work (because it really isn't my business).

Given that you probably relax in the evenings, I can't see why they should be made to do otherwise.

Hanging out and socialising with friends is no more a waste of time than the activities you describe, after all half the population does the self same thing in pubs, drinking alcohol.

My point is that stereotypes are more a description of those who use them than those they purport to describe.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: mayomick
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 09:21 AM

Don may think that the feckless gang don't bother him nowadays because of his reaching out to them on a balmy summer's evening. More likely they were frightened he would come out to the wall with a ghetto-blaster playing Beethoven at full volume.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 02:33 PM

""Don may think that the feckless gang don't bother him nowadays because of his reaching out to them on a balmy summer's evening. More likely they were frightened he would come out to the wall with a ghetto-blaster playing Beethoven at full volume.""

Thank you for that erudite and fair minded comment Mayomick. I'm sure it has added something to the topic, relevant or not.

Kind of makes my point about those who stereotype others.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 06:38 PM

Don seems to have it down just right. The young people may have "adults" telling them what to do all day. What they are able to enjoy with Don is an adult respecting them, not telling them to DO this or that but allowing them to just be themselves in a safe environment. Could any of us ask for better than that?

When I spent a summer on the coast of Nova Scotia in 1971, I attended at a dance mainly for teens. A young lad from the village where we were living sat down next to me and asked me if I had "seen the RCMP around?"

I matter-of-fact-ly responded: "No, why would they be around?"

"Well a few of us broke into a cottage."

"That does not seem like a very nice thing to do."

"we did not break anything or take anything. We just wanted a place to hang out. None of our parents will allow it. There is no place for us to go."

How I wished I could have stayed in that village and opened our home to the kids as a place to hang out. They even had to have their dances in the next village - 10 miles away - because in their village people complained about the noise they made walking home.

We need to meet the real needs of our young people, not the needs we think they SHOULD have.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 06:35 AM

Precisely Dorothy!

Too young to use the local pub, and with no cafe or diner option, they have absolutely nowhere to go except the streets.

Then they are pushed away from the shops and the high street into dark corners on the edge of town, where they are automatically suspected of being up to no good.

Small wonder they have the same suspicion of the motives of adults as the local adults feel toward them.

In this world, you get what you give. Offer smiles, friendship and respect where the normal expectation is suspicion and dislike, and guess what...........?

You get the same back!

If anyone should be the stereotypical Gumpy old Git, it's 72 year old me.

But I like youngsters, and strange to relate, they seem to reciprocate.

I just wish we still had the coffee bars of the 50s and 60s, which is where I did my hanging out as a teenager and beyond. I spent many hours in the Macabre, The Heaven & Hell, or the 2i's in Soho just chatting and listening to Skiffle, Rock, or Classical music (depending on our mood of the moment).

We didn't attend youth clubs because the organisers actually dictated how much of the new music we were allowed. Adults of the time were scared of Rock & Roll and the effects they thought it might have on us.

In the Coffee Bars we could play what we liked on the juke box.

When my kids were in their teens, we kept open house for their friends and Ircall evenings when my son had ten or fifteen mates in his room until close to midnight.

There is nothing like that for our grandchildren, and that is a sad reflection on how we feel about teenagers.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 08:04 PM

When I was a teen ager I used to hang out with guys my age, but we had no place in town, we lived 5 miles from town, so we hung out at different houses. We made music, played penny ante poker, listened to stories from the old folks. Many of those stories ended up in my book.

We also played sand lot baseball, raced bikes, fished in a local brook, caught migrating Tom Cods and eels, hunted in season,hell, we were limited only by our own imaginations.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:45 AM

Two different cultures Cap'n. Even when I was a kid, the only open spaces where we could go without being told we were trespassing were parks and playgrounds.

We were nowhere near the open moorlands or forest areas and club fishing rights kept us away from almost all but day ticket waters, which we couldn't afford.

Only when I visited my grandparents in Ireland could I walk freely in the fields and fish or snare rabbits for the pot.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:59 AM

Imagination knows no borders.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:12 AM

I think Don had already covered the quaint fancy that 'imagination knows no borders' when describing how every scrap of land here in the UK is OWNED by someone else, and those boundaries (whether you prefer to 'imagine' - or rather pretend - that they're not there or not) are clearly demarked with fences, barbed wire and "Private Keep Out" and "Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" signs. The highlands of Scotland are one of the few areas in the UK that people are free to wander where they like.

My uncles (going back to the eighties here) learned to fix and make motorbikes out of scrap they found at the town dump, a fairly constructive activity you'd suppose for a teenager, building things that work out of other people's rubbish, but no, the cops would come round to tell my grandmother that they were trespassing and stealing! Nan would have none of it though, and instead of telling off the boys, would tell the cops to go and find real criminals instead of hounding kids who were doing no-one any harm!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 11:18 AM

I may have missed it in the posts above but why, oh why must reasonably interesting TV programmes insist on music at the same time as the presenter is speaking? With much less than perfect hearing I can't make out what is being said so, in the end, I switch the TV off.

Gripe over - I'm going to play some music now!!

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:21 PM

Strad, I have the same bitch!

Guest CS, Stealing? from the town dump? In this country, anything you throw away no longer belongs to you, or anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:44 PM

""Guest CS, Stealing? from the town dump? In this country, anything you throw away no longer belongs to you, or anyone.""

In the UK it belongs to the Local Council and if you take any of it, you can and will wind up with a criminal record.

Daft, I know, but that's the law in Merrie Englande.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 06:48 PM

The same law applies before the Council collect, if you take anything that has been put out in a neighbour's bin for collection.

It belongs to the Council, and you would think they'd be bloody ecstatic if somebody took it and saved them the trouble.

NOT SO!

They prosecute.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 11:04 PM

I must have closed captions to understand anything on TV. Background sounds in any case make it impossible to comprehend, including musicians who do not enunciate or have their instruments too loud. I understand I miss a lot of good words. There was marvellous music at our fav venue last Fri. I know that because I saw everyone enjoying it and my partner told me so. I had ear plugs and still needed my fingers in my ears and still it was physically painful. I felt as though I had been run over, repeatedly, by a steam roller. It was torture. If it had not been so loud, I would have been able to enjoy it.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 07:35 AM

If some drunk takes a piss in the street, does the council own that too? What does the council do with all that junk?
I guess both countries have silly laws.

Subject: RE: BS: NOISE...Is It Just Me???
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 08:27 AM

The only noises that really get to me are

1. The young mother in downstairs flat when she goes into one of her mentally unhinged shrieking sessions at her partenr or baby girl. This happens almost every day (at any time of night) and at least once one the weekend. This has been going on for 3 years. I have called police. They visit. They leave. She resumes. Baby has now taken to shrieking in the same way.

2. The low air conditioning hum I have heard/felt in some large warehouse stores like B&Q. It really unsettles me and makes me feel quite ill.

3. Sound effects in cartoons and canned laughter in television comedies. Easy enough to turn off if it my TV, but if I am somewhere this stuff is going on, it sets my teeth on edge.

4. My ex-husband's voice when he was incessantly picking at me about some thing or another. Literally hours of following me around as i did house work and yammering until he would wear me down to get an agreement on something I really did not want to do.

5. Last and probably the most important. The sound of someone crying. I cannot let them cry alone and when I start it is very difficult for me to stop.