BS: Obesity a disease? Really??

Subject: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:17 PM

Here goes:

LA Times Story Here

OK - I understand that obesity is going to be called a disease so that more insurance money can be used to fight the problem. But let's call it what it is - not a disease but mental disorder. It's not rocket science - if you WANT to lose weight it involves fewer calories in and more calories going out. But as it stands now we want to spend more time with Ben and Jerry than Gym.

There are those unlucky few that can trace their excessive weight to a medical problem. But those people are very few. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the rest of us. I know all the excuses. I've used all of them too. I'm too busy to work out, I don't get any support from the rest of the family, I just can't help myself, ect.

It's a lifestyle choice pure and simple. And my concern is that if we call this thing a disease it just enables us to go on practicing denial. Better food choices, portion control, more activity - and most importantly - a true desire to change is what we need. Not Oreos and french fries. Until then we're just going to be a nation of fat people.

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:38 PM

Medicalizing it is better than criminalizing it, at least. Saying it's a disease doesn't say it isn't mental.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:47 PM

"It's a lifestyle choice pure and simple."

Oh dear. Got yer flak jacket on?

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:01 PM

I think for a lot of people, gaining weight can come on them unexpectedly when busy with other things, like working long hours at a sedentary job and having little energy left for whipping up healthy meals. Or maybe there were stresses like bereavements, divorce or illnesses which led to depression and consequent poor choices and the weight creeping up. Medication can have an impact too - mine does. Poverty, yes poverty, is a big factor, it's considerably more expensive to eat ready-made shite than buy fresh fruit and vegetables. Once it's there, for whatever reason, it is tough to shift it unless you are seriously committed to some big lifestyle overhalls and not everyone is in a position to make those changes easily, other things get in the way, like reduced mobility, long sedentary hours at work, hormonal changes like the menopause. I guess all I'm getting at is that it's neither a disease, nor a lifestyle choice. Numerous factors are involved and for each person, it's going to be slightly different.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:43 PM

Because of the complexity of obesity, I'd call it a 'syndrome'. And I'm sure psychological factors have a large part to play. After all, very few people want to remain 'obese', but (as has been said) they just can't make the necessary changes. I do blame the food manufacturers who promote and aggressively advertise sweets, burgers, pizzas, chips, KFC and many other unsuitable foods. And as most people in a household work all day there's no-one to cook a good meal for the evening, so fast, junk food is such an easy option when you're dog-tired and the family is hungry. So I think stress, sedentary lifestyle, availability of 'bad' ready meals and fast food, and the pace of working life are mostly to blame. I'm overweight myself, and can hardly contemplate changing my eating habits, so I do understand how hard it is for others. Even when you're told you're putting your life at risk, it doesn't seem to scare you into doing something about it!

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:49 PM

I know a woman in her 40s who is morbidly obese. It started early with a nasty divorce between her parents. One thing after another and I won't get into all of those. Food was the only drug she had and that drug was a dog chasing it's tail. The depressionsss fueled that drug. She is on social assistance and happy pills. Very sad that she does not get or even have the ability to get proper treatment for her "choice of lifestyle".

Don't get me wrong, Wesley... I mean only to offer you ONE opinion for consideartion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:49 PM

many people have the gene just like people with alcohol problems. There are diseases such as Huntington's that is gene related also .. that doesn't make it any less of a medical situation that needs help. Call it whatever you want but people who need help need help and that is the problem with no universal health coverage.   It is like insurance not covering birth control pills but will pay forever for a child that is born. people who need help need help and am far from obese by any measure and stay in shape, but that doesn't mean everyone can for a host of reasons. It is not "they just like to eat" it has a lot to do with gene's I think. My daughters, my family can eat like an anaconda and not gain an ounce. Some people walk by a burger and gain two lbs. It is a problem for many and help should be there

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:55 PM

From my perspective: It concerns me that I keep packing on the pounds. I know that many facets of my life would improve if I took them off, from weight-bearing joints to lungs to walking strides. Two problems: I love to eat and I don't know if it is worth it to me - at my age and stage of life - to deprive myself of that pleasure.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 04:04 PM

I've learned over my long life not to criticise and condemn people when we don't fully understand their problems, especially if/when addiction is implicated. It's very ignorant IMO to merely say, "They choose to be like that so they should jolly well get a grip and stop!" Presumably the poor souls would stop tomorrow morning if only they could. I've worked with heroin addicts and alcoholics, and it was patently obvious that there was a lot more going on in their heads than mere self-gratification. And you're right olddude, people's metabolism varies and changes as they age. I used to be so thin all through my younger days, skeletal in fact, that doctors were convinced I had TB or some other terrible disease! Now, well, I look like Nellie the Elephant frankly, and this began when I hit 45 yrs old. As for insurance, thin folk can get ill too, and as long as one hasn't developed heart problems, diabetes, cardio-vascular disease etc, you're as good a 'risk' as anyone else IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 04:13 PM

Why shouldn't an obese person be able to get help to lose weight and to have it be covered by insurance? Hmm?

Michelle who has been a size 16 and up since she was 12 years old.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 04:23 PM

I have been obese - not morbidly but enough - for at least 5 years. I was overweight back then but at least I could jog and work out enough. I started to pile on the weight - about 30lbs and couldn't loose it no matter what. I could no longer work out - I didn't have the energy and the only thing that helped my fatigue was sugary foods and alcohol! I assumed diabetes but when I got checked out, back in February, a low hemoglobin count showed up. I was dangerously deficient in Iron. Since I have been on Iron tablets - about 2 months now - I can easily walk 5-10 miles, I have lost about 7lbs and only drink at weekends - If I gave that up I would loose wight quicker but be pretty miserable :-) Just so you know it can be a temporary condition as well.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 04:44 PM

It often is. It can be caused by thyroid or pituitary problems and I am sure they ,ust be other causes. None of which are lifestyle related.

So why don't you get off your dumb ass and do some research before you post. Ignorance is a life style choice; get educated.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:16 PM

I got off my dumb ass and started walking. I've lost 35 pounds this year. So I'll stand by my original comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:29 PM

No need to go overboard, Bert. There are a range of reasons people end up very heavy - once you end up there, losing the weight is a lot of work, "life-style choice" or not.

Allowing a medicalization of it (I'm surprised it wasn't already, considering it is an underlying cause of so many other health problems) allows more people access to insurance support of preventative measures and weight loss methods.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:34 PM

Kinda complex issue... Some people are obese because they over eat and others because of metabolism...

Either way, the end result is harmful to one's health...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:40 PM

two or three times, I've lost up to seventy pounds by dieting. however I always put the weight back on. It wasn't until I reached my late fifties that the heart defect which made me put on weight was diagnosed.

I think you have to struggle with the problem, if you have the weight problem. But if they;d diagnosed it quicker, they could have done more to help me,

Plus I wouldn't have had a lifetime of being regarded as a lazy slob.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 06:11 PM

Just because a thing can be prevented or cured doesn't mean it isn't a disease. Heart DISEASE often has many factors that are within the sufferer's control. Some types of cancer, which includes cervical cancer and HPV. Hepatitis, both viral and toxin-induced. Lots of diseases.

Wesley, I'm happy for you, but something made you gain the weight in the first place, didn't it?

I did notice something when looking for healthy microwavable meals: they seem to substitute a large volume of low calorie vegetables with a small amount of stuff in some sort of tasty sauce. I'm getting to the point where I don't even need salad dressing because it tastes better without. But in this day of fast, convenient everything, it's often easier to nuke a prepared meal than fix your own food. At the very least, you don't have to think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 07:39 PM

"but something made you gain the weight in the first place, didn't it?"

Yes - I tend to be lazy. And I have an addictive personality which I self medicated with food.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:33 PM

There is ever increasing research showing that obesity is environmentally induced - TOXINS. Even found in lab animals that the obesity continued unto the 3rd generation. Substances referred to as obesogens (google it) have been identified and isolated for research purposes. Obesity is not a mental problem. It is an environmental problem. I have found that only by serious de-toxing am I able to lose weight.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:37 AM

OK..I haven't read all the posts..and probably won't...because the 'problem' might be brought on by several ways...however, that being said, people who are obese, are that way from malnutrition....and their bodies OFTEN, as a result of it, do not process the food well. This too, can be caused by 'receptors'. Certain substances, and behaviors are caused by the 'receptors', which tell the central nervous system that they HAVE to HAVE certain 'bad' ones, that can cause 'addictions' to the wrong foods, which tends to starve, the digestive and metabolic systems, hence malnutrition...when the 'receptors' are 'satisfied' they signal the brain to release dopamine...the 'reward', for appeasing the receptors.
That also goes for various behaviors....even mental and emotional distortions of reality....(including contentiousness).

I'm done.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:56 AM

You're right SRS, there are a range of reasons, not all of them are related to lifestyle or diet. Some obese people can not lose weight and just because some ignoramus can lose 35 pounds, it doesn't mean that all other people who are obese are able to do the same.

Wesley S,

Those who can lose weight by diet and exercise are sometimes the ones who gained it through gluttony in the first place, so they perhaps should not gloat over their small success and put down others who are not able to do the same and have often spent a lot more effort and courage in the attempt.

If you can lose weight with a little exercise then you are lucky. Many obese people cannot, most obese people have tried over and over again with exercise and diet without success.

When Lou was dying of non Hodgkins lymphoma, her doctor was treating her (mild) obesity with a starvation diet. Of course it didn't work and she died.

She was not a glutton, it was not her lifestyle that caused her to gain weight, it was a cancerous growth.

You have a right to be proud of your own success, but you can thank whoever you pray to, that those 35 pounds were fat and not cancer cells.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:53 AM

According to my body mass index, calculated from my weight and height, I am obese. I've come to realise that there's nothing wrong with my weight – I'm just too short!

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:09 AM

the trouble with the medical profession is that it spent the first two thousand years thinking about humours and the influence of the stars.

It doesn't know all that much. What it does, it does very well. But there are all sorts of gaps in its knowledge. Why some of us are cursed by obesity - whilst others are not is still a strange conundrum.

I will say this. That no one person seems to centralise the knowledge. I have learned about my problem from all sorts of disparate places, and by deduction. Often I am astonished by how little interaction of knowledge exists between the different disciplines of medicine.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:17 AM

With reference to obesity *being* a disease, I don't know how many of you have encountered the movement Health at Any Size? The contention is, that while obesity can coexist with certain illnesses like diabetes and heart disease, obesity in and of itself is not a causative factor.

I think there is sense in this thinking. Losing weight in and of itself will not necessarily cure conditions such as heart disease and diabetes - the Atkins diet will make you lose weight but low carb diets that are full of saturated fat, will do nothing to help heart problems, quite the contrary.

I've been mostly vegetarian now for about a year, maybe more - I say mostly because I have sometimes eaten fish during that period. My diet is also low in refined products like sugar and white bread and high in wholefoods like brown rice and pulses. From blood tests, my cholesterol and blood pressure are nada, I've had no indicators suggesting diabetes, in fact I'm in the athlete range for blood pressure, I attribute this entirely to my diet which being primarily vegetable based and high in wholefoods, is of course low in saturated fats and simple sugars.

Up until fairly recently I had asthma and I'd also started exhibiting signs of arthritis, cutting out dairy completely eliminated all joint pain I'd starting experiencing and my asthma completely cleared up too. I've reintroduced dairy subsequently at a low level with no recurrence of joint pain and only minimal signs of asthma compared to previously.

I'm not a fat advocate of any kind, I'd really rather be back to my normal size which is many dress sizes lower than at present! But even so, presently I have no fear for ill health associated to being fat. It's just a drag not fitting any clothes, and feeling hotter under all the layers of insulation!

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:21 AM

EDIT: I'd like to retract my comments about diabetes, as it's a complicated illness and barring diet, I'm unsure about the causative factors.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 08:15 AM

Not health at all sizes but "Health at Every Size" - again, I do think this is not an unreasonable assertion. Gaining weight may have happened due to adopting bad habits (for whatever reason), but losing weight is a slow long slog. Even adopting more healthy habits may not be significant enough to actually lose the weight once gained. You really have to slash those calories in order to lose weight. While eating a vegetarian wholefood diet has made no difference to my *weight*, it has made a difference to my *health* - or at least the signifiers of potential ill-health such as cholesterol and blood pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: sciencegeek
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:04 AM

there is a world of difference between putting on a few pounds and morbid obesity ( which is a life threatening condition).

Our metabolism has evolved to use the nutrients available and maximize our ability to survive periods of drought & famine. Studies of women who suffered from near starvation during wartime were found to actually alter their metabolic pathways to conserve calories. This change in metabolism continued during their pregnancies and influenced the developing fetus... who then shared the metabolic conservation of calories.

Couple altered metabolisms with major changes in lifestyle and you have the present situation. And many of the most affected are low income folks who have almost no access to affordable, healthy food.

Obesity is a major health issue... but it will not be solved by close minded arguments or by ignoring it. Our founding fathers were products of the Age of Enlightenment and appreciated the need for scientific study and endeaver. Contrast that with today and a growing number of folks who want to return to an ignorant past and fear those who "think outside the box". It's easier to pass judgement than to actually determine what the heck is really going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: goatfell
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:08 AM

it's just another word for being fat, I'm slighlty fat, but these fat folk that's their fault along with mine

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:17 AM

If you get hungry when you do not need food, there is something wrong with you.
That and not bad diet is the cause of some obesity.

I get no pleasure from eating more after I am satisfied.
It is unpleasant.

I would hate to be hungry all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Highlandman
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:01 AM

Blind men.
Elephant.
Complex condition, no simple answers.
When you do find an answer for yourself (Wes) of course it looks simple.
But what good does it do to make someone feel weak and selfish if they are conditioned (by habit or by genetics) to react to discomfort by eating?
-Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:07 PM

I'd love to know how many folk here of a larger size attribute their weight to simply eating too much of the wrong stuff. For myself, I know food was not the culprit. Though I've always enjoyed food, I've never been a binge eater, and I've always had a strong interest in wholefoods and healthy cooking. For me it was a combination of factors, medication being one (yes, I was told so by my doctor), a tendon injury which suddenly stopped me exercising (something I did quite a lot of - mainly jogging) and principally self-medication with booze to block our the world (after a bunch of hard stuff happening in my life). I think it's far too easy to smugly blame other people's weight on too many cakes. While it may be a causative factor for some, I doubt it's as simple as that for most of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:47 PM

My old dad used to say, "No-one ever came out fat from Belsen." Not politically correct nowadays, but I do actually believe you can't make
fat out of very little food. Something must have gone in, surplus to requirements, for the body to convert it into fat. I suppose one should adjust the intake to cater for one's age, lifestyle, health and hormone levels etc. I started to go to the gym some years ago, and the young lad who showed me the machines said, "If you do 15 mins (!!!) on this treadmill, you'll use up 50 calories." I thought, "Big deal! One biscuit and it's all on again!" I stopped going and have had a lovely time since then. But I'm far too plump now! (PS My downfall was crumpets, dripping with butter.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM

Can you imagine FatAnonymous, " Hello, I'm Eliza, and I'm a crumpet addict." ?

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: mg
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:12 PM

The biggest, most easily solvable at least where some discretionary funds are available, problem is metabolic syndrome/hyperinsulemia/insulin resistance combined with very bad information given to clients by doctors and nutritionists. A totally inexcusable failure to keep up with research, to have an emperical attitude and measure what can be measured inexpensively in a lab. This knowledge combined with compliance to a diet that is logistically difficult but simple to be on if you need to be would probably help (estimated by someone somewhere) at least 80% of overweight people. Weight gain is part of the diabetic process. You might not ever be classified as diabetic, but for many people, the process is there..that is why it is so hard to lose weight with some of the recommended diets...they are bad for you in your condition. A huge amount of public hysteria, often led by "experts" in medicine and nutrition has led people to believe their bones will crack, their kidneys will fail etc. despite all currently measured indices showing improvement for many people.

It is pretty simple. We all had ancestors. We have a specific metabolic blueprint. We may or may not know what it is depending on if we are Norwegian forever in the past, or Nigerian or whatever. Most of us are mixed so we really don't know. That blue print says how many caloric carbs we can metabolize for any given level of stress, pregnancy, exercise etc. Some of us can not metabolize caloric (sugars, starches) carbs in other than very small amounts..mine is close to zero per day...it gets worse as we age and as we defy our basic metabolism with too many carbs. Needless to say many of us did not evolve to eat white bread, noodles, etc.

So there is an insulin response to carbs..too many carbs for that particular individual..and it will vary..what is good for husband might be bad for wife etc....will result in too much insulin being released..then comes the cycle of crazing more carbs to soak up the insulin, releasing more insulin, etc. Insulin is a fat-storing hormone. If you have too much and too little exercise you will store fat.

Indications: overweight of course..but you can be at a good weight and still have it. Chipmunk cheeks. Midsection obesity. High triglycerides. You need to..everyone needs to...get their insulin levels checked...and if you tell your doctor or nurse this and they say do you mean your blood sugar level..they are not whom you should be seeing for advice. No..I mean insulin levels. Then compare it to your blood sugar levels. I think BS to I should be about 10 or so.

Stress will make all this worse.

It is idiotic to say that complex metabolism, probably involving every hormone in the body, is not involved. The body is doing the best it can with too many carbs for current exercise level, stress level etc.

Answer: get insulin level checked. Immediately get rid of all sugary drinks, including most fruit juice. Get rid of all white flour products. You may or may not need to go further in reducing carbs...try to find a medical person who knows what they are talking about. Some people, and I am one, have to have high fat low carb. Everyone is different. Everyone's needs differ. You must must must get help with this and good advice and the courage to ignore bad advice, which is most of what is out there. You can measure everything..some at home. Weight, waist circumference, energy levels etc.

Do not believe people who say it is only calories in and calories out. It probably is true for some people. Anything is true for some people. It is complex metabolism with fairly easy solutions, if you have enough time and money and energy to eat what you need to. It is harder for poor people of course, but there are options..substitute beans and lentils for white flour products. Give up all sodas.

I am only talking about starchy and sugary carbs, especially those that are highly ground and/or processed. High fiber carbs are good..some people can eat a fair amount of fruit and some must not.

Read books by Dr. Robert Thompson, others I can't think of now...Raven?? former head of endocrinology at UCLA I think...

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:24 PM

I'm with Wes/

As a PE teacher I have seen how inactivity without reducing calorie in take results in weight gain.

Ignorance and lack of recognition that you are loading the body towards self distruction and further physical complications are major contributing factors.

The less your body moves the less fuel it requires.

and we in the 'developing' world are just plain greedy.

Dont see obesity in the under developed areas of the world

We in the west are thick and stupid

Ban beer

Go Wes go

Now where's that doughnut, I havent had one since breakfast, lunch , dinner
and its nearly supper time already.

gis an apple, or two

checkout trim down

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 05:19 PM

many, many factors need to be considered

There was almost no serious obesity in my family that I ever heard of (I couldn't gain much weight if you paid me), yet my younger brother (3 1/2 years)outweighed me by the time he was 10 years old, once got to almost 300 lbs. He was able to control it, but it was a mystery why he found it so easy to pack on pounds.

I have known people whose body type seemed to have been 'set' in childhood, and no amount of diets made much difference. But.... there is no reason not to explore the possibilities! Life can be pleasanter and maybe longer if really excessive pounds can be defeated.

I sometimes feel a bit guilty for having few dietary issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Rumncoke
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 07:37 PM

I find it amusing these days that everyone who gives advice on diet seems to assume that I eat a lot - I have watched in amazement as people who have no weight problems eat and eat and eat - I do not have any idea how they can eat so much and not look like an elephant seal.

Then there are the people who do look like elephant seals who spend all their time stuffing food into their mouths.

The one type of diet which works for me is low carb - but mention Atkins and medical people go ballistic.

Of course they think it is just fried foods and more fried foods - it isn't but they don't listen.

The part of most interactions with a medic which I most enjoy is when they think their doo dad for measuring blood pressure must be broken because mine comes out as normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 08:30 PM

Yes indeed Rumncoke, my wife eats much less than I do and is heavier.
She has the same problem with the medics, they just don't believe that she doesn't have high blood pressure and diabetes.

So, I guess that if your extra weight is due to over eating, then you can take it off with exercise and diet; but if your obesity is caused by genetics or by some disease then no amount of starvation is going to help.

While those who have lost 35 pounds certainly do have some bragging rights, they should not draw the conclusion that others who cannot produce the same results, are living a bad life style.

Those who have tried starvation diets without success and are willing to try something new, might want to take a look at the Shaklee 180 plan.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 08:34 PM

You get fat because you eat more food than your body needs. That is the bottom line.

There might be all kinds of reasons for that. Your body might be particularly efficient at using the food you eat, so that you need relatively little, but you still eat the same amount as other people who need more. In a famine you'd have much more chance of living than they would, but in a non-famine situation you put on lots of weight and die sooner than they do.

Or it might be that you eat a lot more than the other people, and there might be various reasons for that. With some people it's going to be a way of coping with problems of one sort or another, with some it's a matter of doing something they really enjoy, and with some it's a kind of addiction.

And of course once you've put on the weight it's a great deal harder to take it off, because carrying it around must be exhausting. It's very impressive how some people can get round at all. Sometimes I'm staggering along with a load of shopping and I get passed by some massive person the same height as me, and I think, they are lugging around several times as much extra weight as I have in the bags. Amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:45 PM

if all we had to do was lie down and respirate, you might be right. We have to produce enough energy to go to work, etc. So you can be quite overweight and not be eating more food than your body needs, which is quite rude by the way, but you are feeding your body the wrong mixture of food. If you put milk in your gas tank, lots of it, and try to shame the car because it is not driving, you have given enough food to your car but it is not going to work. Some car need diesel, some coal I presume, some gas. If you give them the wrong substance, no matter how much of it, plus you scold them severely, they are still not going to run.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:57 PM

The arrogance of the OP is effete.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 04:06 AM

"The arrogance of the OP is effete." Guest

I like words. But see, I have this hangup about using words that come close to what I wish to say. So- which of these meanings do you refer to?

Definition of EFFETE
1: no longer fertile
2: having lost character, vitality, or strength

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 05:48 AM

"You get fat because you eat more food than your body needs. That is the bottom line."

Not more food, more calories. My excess calories came in the form of alcohol not food. Bar going vegetarian my eating habits were no different when I put on a lot of weight four years ago compared to all the years previous. What changed and what caused the large weight gain, had nothing to do with food.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 10:22 AM

Drinks are food. Not always the best food, but that's another matter.   Whether our food is solid or liquid is less important than what it contains, and how much we have.

Colloquially we may talk about food and drink as if the former didn't include the latter, but that's rather the same as the way we talk about animals and birds as if only mammals counted as animals.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 11:12 AM

It's OK Ebbie. The opinions of an unnamed "guest" about the OP are not important. You might even say they carry no weight....

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 01:02 PM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 04:08 PM

Right you are McGraw.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 08:07 PM

Today on the Ed Show he displayed the array of foods that a -Republican, of course - legislator bought while participating for a week in the SNAP experiment. The legislator scoffed at the idea that poor people couldn't live on food stamps- he said that * he * did and even gained weight that week.

Except for two items, the food he bought was ALL high calorie, high sugar and fats, NO fruit, NO vegetables, NO meat.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 08:14 PM

So it's not surprising he put on weight.

But putting on weight is only part of the problem of eating the wrong food, because you need the other stuff for health reasons unconnected with weight.

Subject: RE: BS: Obesity a disease? Really??
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 08:37 PM

I saw that assortment of foods too. Can you live on it? Sure. Is it healthy - no way.

The deck is stacked against us. Doctors don't want to push us to change our lifestyles. If we have a symptom they are trained to just medicate it. Not help us to prevent it in the first place by eating right. Watch some TV tonight. You won't see a single ad for food that is really good for you - except perhaps orange juice.

And we're brainwashed into thinking we're too busy to cook for ourselves. So - as someone said the other night - we outsource our food supply to prepackaged food made by corporations. And corporations are not interested in our health. Just profits.