BS: Mudcat Community

Subject: BS: Mudcat Community
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:27 PM

With the passing of our dear Kat, it was so nice to see so many old friends posting again on the Forum. I asked several why they left. To a person the attitude was "Mudcat use to be a community of friends, of thoughtful caring people who helped each other. Sadly it has become a community of adversaries"

Looking at the threads in the last year of so, there is truth to this statement don't you think. The question is, how does it go back to what it use to be instead of left vs Right, religous vs non religious, guns vs non guns etc.

Sadly I do think it will cease if it continues don't you or maybe I am all wrong. We all get heated up sometimes (me too) but isn't it time to stop?   I ask the question

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:35 PM

In my experience, there have always been fights here. A lot of the worst people are gone. It seems to me that about 10 or 15 people are doing about 80% of the fighting. On the other hand it is usually easy enough to ignore those threads.

There is a little too much name calling.

On the other hand a lot of the community has moved to facebook.

One can start thread there and police it themselves. Amos, Mick, Spaw and Gnu are my friends on FB, lot of friendly greetings and no fights that I have seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:36 PM

On the other hand a lot of the community has moved to facebook.

should be

On the other hand a lot of the community activity has moved to facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:47 PM

Dan, I think if we can ignore the trolls, including stupid people and stupid posts, and contribute to what we love, we can be that community.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 01:00 PM

The "10 or 15 people who are doing 80 percent of the fighting" post over and over, overwhelming any attempt at logical discussion.

They either must heal themselves, or be subject to rigorous censorship and/or barring from posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 01:12 PM

membership conditions.



You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak.

a few warnings and deletions over these things as well as a discussion over the what is permitted may go a long way. There are members who show nothing but those traits below the line.

unkind, impolite, argumentative,


on the other hand, I enjoy the snootiness, especially from the Englishmen, make me nostalgic for the Empire! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 01:25 PM

Yes, the occasional argument with the inhabitants of that quaint little island adds spice to mudcat.

Perhaps a list here of the argumentative, impolite and unkind might help. The average good, kind mudcat can refuse to post to threads started or infested by these miscreants.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 02:40 PM

Seems the colonies are starting to bang the rocks together at last.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 04:49 PM

I give up I tried

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 04:54 PM

We make FIRE! Got super fire starter from Brookstone!

There is STILL community for those who look for it.

I cannot comprehend how anyone follows & keeps up on FaceBook unless they are on continuously.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:26 PM

"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us..."

(Frankly, I don't know if I could stand the sight.)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: maeve
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:41 PM

Don't give up, Dan. Those who understand what you are asking and are willing to care will continue to reach out. The community will continue and grow to the degree that we make connections and treat one another with kindness, respect, and good humor/humour.

It's worth the effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 06:49 PM

Thank you maeve. I've written and then erased at least 8 posts to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:14 PM

As that great philosopher Peter Green once said...


"Don't ask me what I think of you

Might not give the answer that you want me to"

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:22 PM

If you think that Mudcat has become a community of adversaries today then you need to take a trip back to when Bush was trying to sell the Iraq War...

Today is peaceful compared to then...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:33 PM

And probably the same old miscreants who need to be handcuffed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:40 PM

Dan... "how does it go back to what it use to be..."

Only by you and all the other good hearted people posting when it matters. You speak of "adversaries". Yup. I just last night went absolutely apeshit in this here Café. Overboard on the good ship. I dove overboard and swam with the sharks. I bit back. But I did so in the wrong way. I know better. I know I should not have posted the things I posted but I was just in that mood when... when... ya just can't take listening to any more assholes. And what pisses me off is this. We used to be a community that would rally and defeat these trolls and assholes with humour and prose that would shame them from posting again. It was a collective effort of like minds of tollerant and intelligent people telling these pieces of trash to fuck off in a very polite and very mannerly way.

I apologize that I have sunken to the depths of telling them to fuck off when they they try to hijack and cheapen threads for whatever reason they feel they need to do so. I long for the day when we get back to the community we were years ago.

On that note, I do like some songs by Eminem. >;-)

If ya don't know what I mean, ya ain't been here long enough ta understand what I said before that.

Good thread, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:56 PM

I thought that was a purdy decent rant, gn-ze...

And I agreed with every word...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:58 PM

Telling other people what they need to do or how they need to act or think is rarely, if ever, an effective strategy for change. I have no capacity to change others. Only myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:12 PM

People perhaps should be discouraged from intentionally breaking the rules as they say they are doing so?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Rapture Underway???
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 09:03 PM

Four billion years of evolution has led to no end-points save the ones involving dead ends and extinctions and billions of useless or malevolent miscopies of genetic information. Arguably, not even improvements. The suggestion that evolution has some kind of goal is pure nonsense and reveals that you have a good deal of studying to do. You are about as advanced in your knowledge of evolution as pete. Please take that as the insult it is intended to be.
Please take that as the insult it is intended to be.
Please take that as the insult it is intended to be.
Please take that as the insult it is intended to be.
Please take that as the insult it is intended to be.

What we really have is a very basic philosophical difference, Steve. We differ philosophically in what we think life is primarily about, and these last few posts have clarified that very well.

Covering up your sheer ignorance of this matter by pretending that your deluded standpoint is some kind of philosophical position is ludicrous and risible. Even more so considering that my position is one of an understanding of overwhelming scientific evidence and nothing to do with "philosophy". You are, to put it plainly, full of utter bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:15 PM

*sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:27 PM

I'll see your *sigh* and raise you two *sighs*...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:28 PM

Well, olddude, Jack-S has effectively shown why mudcat is no longer a community.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:42 PM

The problem is that Mudcat IS a community - and like ALL Communities has its share of Arseholes ! As the community gets bigger , so does the share of Arseholes , and sadly its the Arseholes who make the most noise !

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 10:04 PM

I'm wary of threads such as this, because, while olddude would like things to be nicer, most people will use it as an excuse to complain about whatever and whomever bothers them. Sort of like me, but I won't argue, just state my case and go. Since there seems to be a lot of bothered people, and Mudcat has, for some of them, become the place where they come to fight with people they hate about subjects they hate, troll about religion and politics, given that even those who once pretended to care about music obviously don't any more, and that hatred and anger are the only reasons they're here,--

--the only "community" exists with people who don't play the hate game. The volume of posts does not make Mudcat a more appealing place. Turning the dial up to 10 on "stupid" doesn't make Mudcat more appealing. Arguing with others in a way that makes you feel better but guarantees that people wouldn't want to get anywhere near you in the real world doesn't make Mudcat (or even YOU) more appealing. I don't even want to know some of you on line. If I'm at an event with you and it seems I'm avoiding you, I probably am. I've never disliked as many people as I do now, but the only thing I can do about it is sit back and let them keep demonstrating the whatever crap their lack of a filter lets them feel justified in posting.

When ("if" for the more oblivious) you wonder about those who couldn't take any more of the crap and left, do you ever think it's you who turns them off?
Do you care?
Do you ever wonder there might be something wrong with you if what keeps you coming back to Mudcat is the fighting

Listen, I know we're not all smarter, more right, or "funner" than everybody else, even though that's what some folks seem to believe. Just please, shut up once in a while. Be nice once in a while. Give people a break.

No, the people who love shit are going to keep producing it and throwing it around until the whole places is covered in it and are probably helpless to stop, but I can dream.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Little Robyn
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 10:30 PM

You have found part of the reason things have changed but there is another reason.
10 years ago I called in at least twice a day, I searched for songs, I waited for Malcolm Douglas to give a definitive reply, or I had a conversation with Kytrad, half a world away. I made friends with people like Azizi or Skarpi, and I offered answers when someone asked a question about something I was familiar with - NZ songs, Northumbrian smallpipes or Mayday at Padstow.
I followed Michelle's battle with cancer, then added my own. I sent a chrissy tree decoration to Cats and received one of Jaquie's shawls.
Yes, we had a lovely caring community.
But then I joined Facebook.
Now I still check in to the café every couple of days and can still look up songs if I need to (but I don't need to do that very often now) but on Facebook I see what's happening whenever someone posts and I can easily click on a link or ask someone a question, either publicly or in private. Yes, I could do that on Mudcat but somehow, Facebook seems to be more personal and I don't have to put up with the nasty stuff.
So, I'm still here. Just not so often.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:00 PM

.... what Jeri said....

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:10 PM

I could mention names...Martin Gibson, Claymore, and others. But let water under the bridge lay where God flang it.

There are still those who care, I'm on both FB and the MC. Usually at least once a day on each.

I get more out of the MC.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:33 PM

I totally fail to see the appeal of Mudcat on Facebook. Can someone explain it to me? Whenever I visit it, I find an endless string of postings, which attract a few comments and then disappear forever. There doesn't seem to be any easy way of skimming for items of interest, nor of responding to posts where the response might require some tome to consider.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: ranger1
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:52 PM

What Jeri said. I lurk more than I post, usually because things just devolve into nastiness, both above and below the line. Some very talented under 20 year-olds attempted to join the "community" and were met with ridicule and snark. One of them told me it was like high school all over again, and I had to agree with her. I tried to get some help with a project that I'm doing to expose more young people to folk, and ended up turning to Facebook for help, because I wasn't getting much help here, mostly insults and rudeness. I miss the old Mudcat, sure, we had The Shambles and Martin Gibson, but they seemed to be the minority and not the majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 12:13 AM

Jeri's dream is a shared one. I poured a huge amount of energy into Mudcat in the first few years I was here, purely out of delight and excitement over the positive and humorous and helpful voices I found here.   And a lot of that spark is still here, but more obscured by clouds of studied antagonism and hamhanded irrelevance. Ya pays yer money and makes yer cherce, I suppose.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Andrez
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:04 AM

I agree with Leadfingers 27/7 post. Reading the Carrickfergus thread recently for the first time and becoming immersed into the songs story and peoples discoveries, perceptions, interpretations etc or the outpouring of love, warmth and regret for Kat and her passing amongst dozens and dozens and dozens, oh all right maybe hundreds, of other threads is what makes this a community that Facebook and the like will never be.

I'll just lurk or post as I see fit and just dont bother engaging whenever I come across someone's hardline rant/s. LIke dat ole' song says: yer gotta accentuate da positive, eliminate da negative etc, etc.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 03:22 AM

When we have finished praying for peace, let us turn our attention on ourselves?

Olddude wants nice friendly debate yet the fruits of his labor include posts insulting those who don't share his Christianity.

Q is either being ironic or is saying Mudcat needs an elite corps of members living in their own neighborhood, presumably not including the English.

Jack the Sailor goads people to get a reaction.

So.. who would police this friendly place? Above the line, I get more satisfying information from those under scrutiny here than I can take in when it comes to traditional music.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:40 AM

At the risk of repeating myself....just ignore the flamers and deliberately provocative, deny them the oxygen of publicity. Don't read their threads & bust a blood vessel, don't respond. They'll eventually get tired and go away.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:40 AM

Agreed, Guest of 28 Jul 13 - 03:22 AM. I would also say that there seems to be a case of rose-tinted specs going on. Mudcat has never been the Utopia that some people think, but nor is Facebook or any online community. Remember that Facebook was used to create all this fake Mudcat personas some time ago.

Keep it as it is and always was. Anarchic and informative all at the same time :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:09 AM

There must be at least 50 threads-of-the-day on the screen in front of me at any one time. I have to ask myself why people who allegedly hate certain topics/people don't just ignore the stuff they don't like. Just don't bloody click.

Wacko, that was a pure-and-simple troll post. Your own posts are riddled with ill-humour, prejudice and rudeness. Why don't you just go back a couple of weeks to the one in which a mate of yours called me a "fucking asshole"? Come on, old boy, if you're going to quote examples let's have a fair spread! Cast out the plank (or, in your case, walk it).

Incidentally, as I recall that is the first time in tens of thousands of posts on the interwebby thingie that I've ever typed "that word". See what depths Wacko gets you plunging to?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:16 AM

"on the other hand, I enjoy the snootiness, especially from the Englishmen, make me nostalgic for the Empire! :-)"

(Uproarious laughter)

Good one Jack :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:28 AM

This part of mudcat is nominally a BS discussion zone, it is excellent,if one is prepared to ignore bullying and name calling by a very few.
I have never encountered so many highly intelligent people on one small forum....it is a delight, if you keep calm and keep civil.

Someone opened a FB account for me, it is typical of most modern media, childish and boring.
If I want to ask my friends how they are, I'll lift the phone or use Email.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:33 AM

"I have never encountered so many highly intelligent people on one small forum".......and yes, that includes you Don,Amos, Bill,Bobert and many others...:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 08:30 AM

The more things change, the more they stay as they were.

The more things stay as they were, the more things change.

Both those statements are equally true.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 09:04 AM

Well at least some things work around here. Messages work and some aspects sink in. Notice I'm not on his list of intelligent people? I'd be worried if I was...

Delicious irony in (the whole of USA) feeling (the whole of UK) are up for a fight and argue the toss. Presumably none of our catty friends were in the military then?

The snag is, to sit in agreement with some of the delightfully weird people on this forum, you would have to stop holding many principles to be true. No. Better to have a laugh and see what happens when you prod them with your stick with it's horses head handle, the finest that Woolworths could sell.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 09:09 AM

We dont have to all "agree" to be a community, in fact, if we all agreed about everything, this section of the forum would be pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 09:19 AM

Every thread or message here does not have to be about you Ian, Calm down, chill out, have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 09:21 AM

It certainly isn't about you. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 10:21 AM

Dear Musket,

Yes, many of us were in the military. I was in the Infantry on the DMZ in Korea, for example. Kendall was in the Coast Guard and did so well that the coast of Maine is still there. Big Mick was in Vietnam. Charmion and Edmond were/are in the Canadian Defence Forces. There are many others, some of whom you might not suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 10:30 AM

The point of posting that post of Steve's which was the first one I read after the last time I opened this thread. was to illustrate,

A. That there are rules for civility on this forum.

B. There is ALMOST NO ENFORCEMENT at all.

Steve has exactly ONE post on this thread an in it he calls me Whacko, as he does in every post that he addresses me.

If you look back of Steve's posting history there is an insult against someone in almost every single post. Same with Greg F. Almost every post by songwronger and and Bearded Bruce are designed to pick a fight.

You could end 90% of the fighting by enforcing the rules on 5 or six people. You wouldn't have to do it for long. As was said on this thread. The people here are smart. They will learn quickly to find more civil ways to communicate. Or, they will find other people to pick on on another forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:03 AM

"If you look back of Steve's posting history there is an insult against someone in almost every single post."

That's a horrible lie and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:21 AM

From your last ten posts before this thread. At least one insult in half of them. Not to mention your recent conversations on the Militant Atheism which are entirely about your "new religion" which is aimed at mocking me.


Well, thing is I wan't actually insulting you. I was demolishing you. I know how hard it is to take demolition and pretend, instead, that it's a mere insult. You see, Hawk, you have no idea about evolution.


Evolution for one, a subject on which you bravely, recklessly and publicly rattle on about but about which you know precisely nothing. What you do know plenty about is how to bullshit us all on this forum.


Covering up your sheer ignorance of this matter by pretending that your deluded standpoint is some kind of philosophical position is ludicrous and risible.

    Wacko's response is so stupid that I won't waste time on it.

Your notion is fanciful and whimsical but it has nothing whatever to do with evolution. I bet even Snail would agree with me there. Unshackling ourselves from evidence-free notions of either inner or outer forces doing the driving is what the beginning of good science is all about. Enjoy your imaginative ramblings but don't confuse them with evolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:27 AM

Jeri said it best I think. Many are missing the point. It is not my words but a summary of many of the old posters that no longer visit here anymore.

What does one do when their community becomes unpleasant? They fight back, then get tired of fighting and move ... isn't that what happened to many of the people who no longer post? I am only the messenger. I never said I was a saint either. I got sick of the non ending religious bashing and yes blew up at some people. That I am not proud of either.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Community
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:34 AM

Less than an hour ago you said:

If you look back of Steve's posting history there is an insult against someone in almost every single post.

Now you're saying:

From your last ten posts before this thread. At least one insult in half of them.

Bit of a shift, there, eh? Like I said, a horrible lie. And you're making a fool of yourself.

Not to mention your recent conversations on the Militant Atheism which are entirely about your "new religion" which is aimed at mocking me.

Absolute tommyrot. We're taking the piss out of organised religion. We don't usually even give you a thought unless you rear your head. You appear to have a persecution complex.