BS: Ender's Game now a movie

Subject: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Bettynh
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 11:56 AM

I saw the trailer for the movie version of Ender's Game yesterday on broadcast tv. I've been thinking about what they'll have to do to make this palatable to a movie audience. There are lots of themes - conspiracy, manipulation, genetic programming, internet propaganda, military necessity, to name a few. Most of all, though, I think the primary qualification that Ender had to exhibit - the ability to murder for necessity without thought - won't be in the movie. I've often recommended this book to adults - it's a great story and, as I've said, bears thought and re-reading. But when I found it in a plie of books to be donated to the children in a homeless shelter, I made them remove it. Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 01:54 PM

I think it was wrong of you to censor the material going to the shelter.

WHO appointed you Ms. 451 ?? And why would you brag about it ? ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 02:34 PM

Having read all the books in the series I agree with you Betty. I would certainly not suggest these books to my grandchildren. I think that they are adult Reading.I liked them but there is a lot there that really would not be suitable for kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 03:13 PM

I read the book years ago. The "twist" is very clever.
Although I saw it coming!

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 04:22 PM

Despite the easy generalizations of librarians, a book ABOUT children is not necessarily a book FOR children. I think it's a great book but there's so much complexity under the surface that it would be a disservice to young readers to have them go at the book too early. Not as a matter of censorship, but of appreciation. I had my kids read it in their middle school years, and we had excellent discussions over it at that age.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Bettynh
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 06:09 PM

Right, Glenn. I have given that book to children. For that matter, it was first brought to me by my teenage child. But I don't think giving it randomly to a child that is likely already traumatized is a good idea. It's a serious book worthy of serious discussion. Do you think the movie should include these incidents, Mr. Guest? Have you read the book?

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 07:37 PM

I read Ender's Game some years ago, following with the sequel, Speaker for the Dead. Very good bit of science fiction, but I wouldn't really consider it suitable for children.

A couple of decades ago, I attended a Norwescon at which Orson Scott Card was one of the visiting writers, and he conducted an excellent workshop on "building" a believable alien species, along with that species' civilization and culture. A couple of hours of really fascinating discussion. Most valuable!

But Orson Scott Card himself, although quite personable face to face. is more that just a bit controversial. There are a fair number of people out there who do not wish to support the movie(s), or Card, in any way.

He is a devout Mormon, which, in itself is okay if that's what turns his crank. And, in fact, he is one of the many descendants of Brigham Young himself. Although I haven't followed his latest doings very closely, there are those who maintain that he is a bit of a nut case. A racist who allegedly maintains that 9/11 was a good thing, giving George Bush an opportunity to obliterate Muslims and the Muslim religion, which we know is of the Devil.

He is also a frothing-at-the-mouth homophobe, and not only does he not approve of gay marriage, he tends to favor a somewhat Hitlerian approach to ridding the world of homosexuals.

In the main, I have liked what science fiction of his I have read, but I certainly condemn his attitudes of racism, religious bigotry, and homophobia.

I would like to see what they have done with the movie(s), but—I'm thinkin'. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Bettynh
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 08:08 PM

That's addressed in the Wiki article I linked to, Don. I'm a bit wary of what the film will be myself.

On the subject of gay marriage, Card said, " Ender's Game is set more than a century in the future and has nothing to do with political issues that did not exist when the book was written in 1984. With the recent Supreme Court ruling, the gay marriage issue becomes moot. The Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution will, sooner or later, give legal force in every state to any marriage contract recognized by any other state. Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute."

Harrison Ford has stated, ""I am aware of his statements admitting that the question of gay marriage is a battle that he lost and he admits that he lost it. I think we all know that we've all won. That humanity has won. And I think that's the end of the story."''

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 11:26 PM

Where are you picking up ANTI GAY from ANYtHING in the book?

I have read it three times?

It is as good...or better young adult fiction as the "twilight series"

Ms 451 question was requesting our thoughts.
Be beyond a doubt ....Censorship is WRONG

It was not her place to remove the book.

Like such as her....might also remove "Sambo" and chortle in their own self righteousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:42 AM

Why give attention to anonymous snipers?

" the ability to murder for necessity without thought - won't be in the movie."

I think that won't be in the movie because it was not in either the novella or either of the full length novels about the story. Think about the ending and think about the title as it relates to the ending.

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Bettynh
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 08:50 AM

Jack, I'm not sure about the novella, but in the first full-length novel I'm pretty sure Ender murdered two other kids - one on the transport up to the school, another in a bathroom years later. Ender was unaware that he had actually killed either kid. For his watchers, it validated their choice of him. In the novel from the Bean perspective, I don't think these incidents come up, but I really need to re-read both.

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 05:57 PM

Sounds like it will be good, but I bet they won't be little kidds

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 01:07 AM

I just saw a trailer. the actor looks about 10.


Ender didn't have to be a murderer. Did he? He only had to play the game and win no matter what.

Subject: RE: BS: Ender's Game now a movie
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 01:20 AM

The homophobia issue associated with Ender's Game is not one of trouble with the text, but with its author. Card himself I believe, has had some evolution in his point of view, and his earlier books predate his more obnoxious statements against homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

The question of whether then to withhold one's ticket dollar, in order to avoid any support of Card, himself, is one that arises.

Alyssa Rosenberg, who writes about popular culture from a politically progressive point of view for the Think Progress blog, has a good rundown of suggestions for how to approach the quandary: An Ethical Guide To Consuming Content Created By Awful People Like Orson Scott Card.

It's been a long time since I read that one. I re-read The Songmaster recently, which I rembered really liking when I read it in college. I did not enjoy it this time around. I did listen to an audio version of a later book in the the Ender series and enjoyed it. It was soon after that that I read about his anti-equality views.

I will probably see the movie, and reread the Ender's Game (a used copy!).

~ Becky in Long Beach