BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon

Subject: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 05:43 PM

So many thousands dead already, but hundreds of thousand of survivors with no food, water or shelter and little hope for many or most of them.

What can be done?
It will be weeks before the roads are passable.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: mg
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 05:51 PM

Good news...the sea is still open...we need to get in as much as we can via ship...goods will not be accessible to all but to many...hopefully no repeat of Japan and Haiti disasters where people kept hoping for 3 helicopters to save everyone. Get stuff to a beach and people will come and hopefully help distribute it. Drop off whatever you can to the hill regions. Move whatever people you can with rickshaw, whatever, to less affected places. How far from coast is there damage to the extent of roads being closed?

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:05 PM

Horrendous. However, as disasters go, there are some good elements: it is warm there, it frequently rains (so drinking water can be collected), there are hills so people can get away from the devastated shores, and I'm sure there are many islands that suffered less effects. In addition, the Philippine government should be well prepared.

I don't know that they have a rickshaw culture?

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: mg
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:34 PM

I doubt that they do but undoubtedly there is something that could be pressed into service...might be time to send some water buffaloes there via Heiffer etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 09:54 PM

The US..among others... has promised large amounts of aid. We have ships already in the area starting the process.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 10:12 PM

From Yahoo:

"The United States is already providing significant humanitarian assistance, and we stand ready to further assist the government's relief and recovery efforts," US President Barack Obama said in a statement.
Some 90 Marines and sailors, and two KC-130J Hercules aircraft, left Japan for the Philippines on Saturday, with equipment including tilt-rotor aircraft which can operate without runways, Marines Colonel John Peck said.
The Australian government pledged Aus$10 million dollars (US$9.38 million), with Foreign Minister Julie Bishop describing the unfolding tragedy as "absolutely devastating" and on a "massive scale".
The sum includes Aus$4 million towards a UN global appeal and Aus$3 million for Australian non-government organisations. The aid will include tarpaulins, sleeping mats, mosquito nets, water containers and health and hygiene kits.
A team of Australian medics will leave on Wednesday via a C17 military transport plane from Darwin to join disaster experts already on the ground, the government said, after it disbursed emergency funds worth US$490,000 on Sunday.
Philippine rescue teams were said to be overwhelmed in their efforts to help those whose homes and livelihoods were destroyed after Haiyan ravaged large swathes of the archipelago Friday.
Officials were struggling to cope with the scale of death and destruction, with reports of violent looters and scarcity of food, drinking water and shelter.
United Nations leader Ban Ki-moon promised UN humanitarian agencies would "respond rapidly to help people in need".
The UN children's fund UNICEF said a cargo plane carrying 60 tonnes of aid including shelters and medicine would arrive in the Philippines Tuesday, to be followed by deliveries of water purification and sanitation equipment.
************
Other aid mobilised for the Philippines includes:
-- The European Commission said it would give three million euros ($4 million) towards the relief efforts.
-- Britain offered an emergency support package worth $9.6 million. Germany's embassy in Manila said an initial shipment of 23 tonnes of aid was being flown in and German rescue teams were already at work.
-- Like Australia, New Zealand also increased its humanitarian relief on Monday, bringing its total to NZ$2.15 million (US$1.78 million), while Canada has promised up to US$5 million to aid organisations.
-- Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders) said it was sending 200 tonnes of aid including medicine, tents and hygiene kits to arrive mid-week, with the first cargo plane leaving from Dubai on Monday and another from Belgium on Tuesday.
-- Taiwan's government pledged immediate cash aid of US$200,000 and the Singapore government donated US$40,000.
-- Oxfam, the British-based relief organisation, said it has sent an assessment team ahead of aid operations."

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 01:10 AM

they should have already taken out the bodies for mass burial or cremation...no waiting for weeks in a warehouse for people to id them...take a picture and a lock of hair and get them gone or there will be massive epidemics as well as trauma to the population etc. above and beyond..dogs will be involved etc. I keep thinking it was more a tsunami but it would have hit all the land as well as the shores...hopefully there are lakes and ponds and wells for water somewhere..

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 03:07 AM

Britain has pledged ten million pounds, a warship and transport aircraft.

Subject: RE: BS: Philippines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: maeve
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 08:49 AM

What Not to Send:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2013/11/how_to_help_typhoon_haiyan_survivors_in_the_philippines_the_o
"...There is one simple way that people who want to help can help. Donate money—not teddy bears, not old shoes, not breast milk. Give money to organizations that have worked in the affected areas before the storm—they will be more likely to know and be able to navigate the local context and may be able to respond faster, as it won't take them time to set up. Give money to agencies that are able to articulate what the actual needs are and transparently tell you how they are responding. Give money to agencies that are procuring items locally to help the rebuild the economy. Give money to agencies that are working with the government to ensure that their response is aligned with the national response.

The Philippines has a highly developed civil society sector and effective government disaster response authority. Although Typhoon Haiyan has overwhelmed local capacity for now, their local efforts should be supported. The Philippines Red Cross has already worked to rescue individuals and deliver lifesaving goods to people in hard-to-reach places. Other Philippine-based organizations such as Community and Family Services International and the Philippine Red Cross will know the local needs and how best to respond..."

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 03:18 PM

I do not agree with this...sometimes people are able to get in swiftly to targeted populations..here are thirsty people..here is a boat with water that can reach them. Here is a ton of old Romney t=shirts. These rescuers should be kept out of the way of official agencies etc. but there are so many places that help does not come for days or weeks. This has been so drilled into us that people who could and would collect and deliver water, food, tarps etc. have been effectively demobilized and people have starved and gotten sick and died. There will be people in the way at times and they have to be in martial law and told to take it elsewhere. I fail to see how a teddy bear can hurt and old shoes are quite often better than no shoes. We saw this in Katrina..trucks full of water turned back. S wift boat veterans ready to rescue people blocked. Speed is life and death and some of these agencies are good but not speedy. Probably none of them have enough people and trucks. Let them operate but let others supplement their efforts. That is what I want to have happen when the tsunami comes to where I live. I do not want to wait for the Red Cross..I want fishermen to load up their boats with tarps and milky way bars and come rescue me.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: maeve
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 03:31 PM

Mary, the article is urging people to donate effectively- the author is not saying- nor am I- that those on the spot who can help now are to sit on their hands,but that those outside of the disaster give wisely.

I hope you will always have fishermen with nets and Milky Way bars, but when we give thoughtlessly (sending things that compromise survival and independence) we do harm. I can attest to that, having survived fire, we were homeless and without food, water, clothing, and shelter. Much that we were given and offered was trash, junk, refuse- instead of clean water, hot meals, warm clothes, safe shelter, and tools.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 04:04 PM

unfortunaely now is when the scammers and others try to divert donations into their own pockets... so make sure you know that the organization is up front & honest.

Catholic charities has had a presence and should be able to provide assistence in a timely manner. And once things become less critical, Heifer International is the organization to help replace lost livestock to help people regain the ability to feed themselves.

Just a few thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: DebC
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 04:23 PM

We've already donated money to the Red Cross and those funds will go specifically for typhoon relief. It's always better to give money to a reputable charity such as UNICEF, CARE, Red Cross, etc.

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: GUEST,bubblyrat
Date: 13 Nov 13 - 06:58 AM

I fail totally to understand how ,in a country that has, throughout history,been subject to frequent and often devastating tropical storms,there appears to be no workable prevention or rescue plan in place . The population appear to be resigned to living in home-made wood and bamboo shacks, with no built-in concrete emergency shelters ; the present government , led by someone whose very name conjures up images of corruption and dereliction of duty,seems to be totally incapable of initiating or managing ANY kind of workable disaster relief program. How I pity the poor, starving , homeless ,grieving,populace of what SHOULD be a tropical Paradise .

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 13 Nov 13 - 06:59 AM

UK Catters can donate money via the Disaster Emergency Committee (DEC). Text "CRISIS" to 70000 to donate £5. I did, twice.

Probably the best the likes of us can do.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 13 Nov 13 - 01:20 PM

It is a terribly poor and overpopulated country from what I understand. All sorts of them have to leave to be nurses etc. in Saudi Arabia and contract workers. People are required by the Catholic church to have families they can not feed. It is a continuing crisis that could be reveresed by the Catholic church if they would let loose of their cruel birth control policies, which at least one pope was about to do. There are also ongoing political revolutions. There are sugar plantations where the growers at least in the past could not make enough to feed their children. But they are very intelligent and hardworking people so there is hope.

I keep trying to think what is wrong with sending teddy bears and old shoes. Teddy bears could be used as pillows, insulation in bedding or houses, converted into chairs, stacked up for privacy screens. Old shoes certainly could be worn in areas with broken glass, snakes, sewage...desparate people could find uses for almost anything..not that money should not be sent...but there is a need for goods..preferably people would be advised to send what is needed..tarps, clothing, whatever..and some churches have contacts iwth other churches and can make the needs known.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 06:10 AM

Aid is not reaching many people yet.
Many have had no food or clean water since the typhoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 01:26 PM

Water is a hard one because it is so heavy. But other things are somewhat lighter...medicines..if roads are down have relays of people or donkeys with backpacks. There is a great need for tetanus and I presume antibiotics. I'm saying you can not wait while charities sort things out. Get what you can where you can..old t-shirts..can be torn up and used as bandages, cleaning rags, diapers..or worn by nearly naked people. Tons of rice should not be hard to come by. Always it is water that we need to find ways to either deliver or purify existing water...

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: bobad
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 08:30 AM

I'm waiting for a baby to be named China.

First baby born in IDF field hospital in Philippines named 'Israel'

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 01:31 PM

it is the scale of devastation that is hampering relief efforts... coastal villages swept away, buildings, roads & airports destroyed or buried under debris over at least three large islands and who knows yet how many square miles affected... logistics is the main issue now.

everything must be brought in from elsewhere... and where do you go first - they all need help.

ships can bring in supplies to the coast... but first they have to be loaded with supplies - that must be bought, if not already part of emergency response supplies - and to do that they must go into ports, be loaded up and then leave. And I believe that they already have to import rice, so given what has been lost, just how much is there available within the nation?

Just a short first hand observation - in 1972, during Hurricane Agnes, I was working on a small farm in western NY. thankfully, we were up on a hill not down in the valley - so we were an island for 3 days. No way on or off until the water receeded enough to clear the roads. No phone or electricity after the first morning. We cooked on the charcoal grill & had plenty of food. The worst that happened was that we were plenty wet and lost a brood mare to the flood. Others were no so lucky.   What happened to the Philipines is magnitudes greater than what I endured, so the issue of logistics is that much greater. It's an sad fact of life that international relief organizations face with every large scale disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: Penny S.
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 02:12 PM

Some of the news today pointed out that relief organisations had lost not only kit and supplies, but also their people.
Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 04:38 PM

I have heard about "sending stuff" in regards to this and other catastrophies, that money was best. China "generously" offered $100,000. For them, it it not even pocket change. It is the coin in the parking lot that you don't even bend over to pick up. Stephen Colbert (Colbert Nation) suggested to "beat" them by donating ten dollars at a time by texting COLBERT to 50555. So far, they are up to $85,000. (Do you think China will be embarrassed?)

But other very worthy organizations have been mentioned here, also. I think the key is just caring and sending money however we, the privileged and safe choose to do it.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 05:54 PM

I am going to beat this horse to death. It was 6 or seven days before some, and I doubt all, got anything at all..saw anything at all. Doctors had no medicines, bandages etc. Our paranoia about clogging up airports and docks should be measured against what is really coming in..if there are military organizations, known relief organizations, then give them priority. Tell the others to find other landing zones. But if absolutely nothing is coming in, let in the church groups etc...there are all sorts of hazards...including kidnapping children...but if they are perhaps escorted by local contacts...they do not need to clog up the roads...the road I saw on TV had no traffic whatsoever..a few dozen trucks would not have held anything up.

Someone has to be in charge, and has to have forseen some of the problems. Probably this would be military. It might be a foreign military. LThere lmust be martial law. There must be armed guards. But to stop people delivering goods themselves..and they are very likely to bring what is most needed such as tarps, food, water, is to condemn survivors to death. Either from thirst or freezing to death or in hot climates, diseases brought about by human and animal carcasses. You have one type of problem..chaos, which can be controlled...if you allow people to bring in what they have..and perhaps it is only an overrun of 50,000 teddy bears (and I saw a picture of a child in a makeshift hospital and a teddy bear would not have been amiss). You have another sort of problem..death, a feeling of desparation that no one knows or cares...if you wait until groups get organized enough..which seems to take about a week....it is too long to wait. People die in the meantime who could have been saved. Maybe water will only reach the coast, but it might give those on the coast enough strength to travel inland with medicine..who knows...

I say get what you can how you can when you can. Give money if you can. Give your old T-shirts and unmatched socks if you are close enough and have no money. It does not mean that dogooders have to get in the way of professionals. They need to be told the second Red Cross or the military shows up, get out of the way. Move to another area of need. It is not all or nothing.

Some of those goods we are so paranoid about would have been welcome during the best of times because the people are so poor...in a desparate situation they will have many uses, will be used to get medicine in a black market, etc.

I think Taiwan is about 800 miles and Hong COng about the same....Australia is several thousand miles...you have to react immediately, especially with water. A week is too long for poeple to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 06:51 PM

Ok mg, the horse is dead..on his back with his feet in the air in a pile of teddy bears-- and he is blocking the road to genuine relief efforts. Your concerns and ideas are genuine and show empathy, but don't really reflect what in needed in this crisis.

You simply cannot 'send teddy bears & old t-shirts', etc. Those have to be sorted, collected, shipped and delivered by the same people who are busy dealing with food, water and bodies.

"a few dozen trucks" need fuel, and that is hard to find when power is out, and it must be rationed carefully. Experts are working on this, but the scale of it means they just cannot get to everyone quickly. The basic plea holds.. send MONEY.. unless you are some corporation or country with access to special resources, like helicopters or ships.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 07:32 PM

They do not have to be sorted, collected shipped and delivered by the same people. One group might have canned food. One group might have blankets. One hospital group might have unexpired medicines. They have collected it, they have sorted it and they will deliver it. They will not hopefully (in chaos anything can happen) get in anyone's way because the anyone's are not in place yet. And a place that has had a disaster might not have shops to purchase from. Perhaps a flotilla of boats manned/womanned by retired military including nurses could make it from Hong Cong a week earlier than agencies and military are making it right now. Certainly in Haiti when we were 80 miles or so from American soil..and remember that boats make it with refugees all the time...we could have much faster gotten water and tarps..80 miles...people go on picnics farther away than that.

Nothing has to block the way of anything. Under martial law tell the people in the way they can not go to the epicenter, they can not use certain roads, they can not use certain airstrips, they can not use certain ports. There will be other avenues. There will be jungle trails perhaps. There will be places where small craft can land. There might be some water buffalo. There probably are missionaries who have contacts back and forth. They can work with known people. The biggest problem I see is bad people getting into the mix. That is the biggest problem..child trafficing etc..not too many teddy bears. If you have a huge pile of teddy bears, if they are not moldy etc., then every child gets a Christmas present eventually. Too much stuff is rarely a problem although everyone has heard of the wedding dress that got to Guatamala. Well, if you had nothing else, you could use a wedding lace for mosquito nets. Material is probably not good for bandages etc. but could be used as a sun shelter or something.

Every disaster we are told this and every disaster it seems to take longer to get goods to the people when other people..as in Katrina when that is all we heard..send money, don't send old wedding dresses..when people with trucks full of water were turned away. It makes no sense. It is anal. It is a death sentence for some people. The minute the military lands or the Red Cross sets up, shoo the unwanted people away. They will have plenty of customers a few feet away from the Red Cross stations or a few miles into the hills.

Ask Hurricane Sandy survivors how long they had to wait..and that was in a major set of cities surrounded by other cities that could have gotten through by train, bus etc....you can not wait for these charities..they take too long in many cases.. They can not do it. Help must come from all around.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 09:46 PM

There is a company that is offering free shipping to Philippines...FIlipinos are inquiring how to send stuff..I know nothing about the company but it is partnering with the Red Cross. I do not know if stuff is mailed to a central warehouse or it goes as it usually does to particular families.

Free..wherever the company works...some addresses have been listed. There are some comments as to what is needed. Please do not send Santa Clause outfits..someone is very worried about people sending Santa Clause outfits, even though they could be used for bedding, clothing, temporary tents etc.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Shipping-Company-Delivers-to-Philippines-for-Free-231531801.html

click

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 09:50 PM

You have a dozen hypothetical "could be's" in your ideas.

" martial law" is useless when half the military is part of the victims and the rest is needed to distribute stuff....

As I said...experts with experience are now getting at things... let them work

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: mg
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 10:15 PM

You need the military to run the martial law and to get logistics flowing. You do not necessarily need them to pick up bags of rice and put them on a truck. That can be done by locals. They also will probably coordinate with military units from other countries including US and I presume Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: sciencegeek
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 09:07 AM

g...

the government did prepare for the hurricane, and now admit that they never expected the size or force that hit them. They have 3 large cargo planes and could use 100 to deal with this disaster. They are now scrambling to cope with the sheer scale of the relief effort needed.

AT this moment we need to limit our response to sending money to those best equipped to help.

Subject: RE: BS: Philipines catastrophe - Nov 2013 typhoon
From: bobad
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 05:32 PM

The Disaster Assistance Response Teams (DARTs)from Canada arrived and have commenced providing aid and medical assistance in the Panay region of the Philippines.

National Post article