BS: Sherlock is back...

Subject: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 05:30 PM

I've just been watching programme 1 of series 3 of "Sherlock" - great fun, full of in-jokes and puns on the Holmes cases that never got written, just mentioned, in the books. Such as "The giant rat of Sumatra"...

Totally improbable, hugely enjoyable.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 05:40 PM

I watched and thoroughly enjoyed it too. Next on Sunday :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 07:30 PM

Fun to watch, just forget the notion it's got any relationship with Sherlock Holmes. Ignore the plot too, unless your mind works that way. The good thing is the interaction between Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 09:47 PM

What channel?

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:01 AM

Wonderful escapism. I worried about over expectation due to the huge anticipation trailers and news items about reaction from press screenings.

It delivered though. The Conan Doyle nods were there, the characters were there as ever. As comedy, the posh restaurant leading to cafe to takeaway to street with ensuing nosebleed was hilarious.

Roll on Sunday.



I was told this morning that the man playing Mycroft writes the series and that Bilbo's girlfriend is his real life missus. Perhaps I should subscribe to Eyup magazine...

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:39 AM

BBC1 Should be on iPlayer but I dunno who can get that,

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:44 AM

Wandering slightly…

While hunting for cheap treats for my Kindle a few months ago, I downloaded The Complete Sherlock Holmes for about 5 Euro and read the lot - for the first time in fifty years, I suppose! Still hugely enjoyable.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:45 AM

Gnu can if he gets one of those IP add ons for his PC that tells BBC iPlayer you are in The UK. I have relatives and friends all over who do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 06:35 AM

Having read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings several times, I can't recall Bilbo Baggins, or Frodo ever having a girlfriend, where did that come from Musket ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 06:43 AM

Martin Freeman (Watson) also plays Bilbo in the new film of the Hobbit - and the unlikely suggestion is that the actress playing Mary Morstan, Watson's girlfriend in Sherlock, is the girlfriend of Mark Gatiss (Mycroft and screenwriter).

Have I got that right... if so...

Highly unlikely!

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 06:52 AM

forgot to say - Amanda Abbington, who plays Mary Morstan, is Martin Freeman's actual wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 11:13 AM

I wish I could share your enthusiam and I`ve every respect for those involved in the production but I would prefer they left the character of Sherlock Holmes in the fashion and period of which Conan Doyle wrote and invented their own detective.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 11:20 AM

Ah... Thanks Will. My mate reckoned it was the screen girlfriend... I can go back to him, push my glasses up and score a nerd point now!

Come to think about it, he never mentioned that Smaug plays a fiddle and smokes a curly pipe.



Steve!!   Wait! I've something to top trump your trivia!

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 11:50 AM

Thanks, Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 12:15 PM

Gnu, Carol and I watched the first seasons during a free trial of Netflix. I've seen ads that the series will be on some PBS stations, check your local listings if they still show PBS on your cable.

We really enjoy the series. Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman (Holmes and Watson) are superb actors and fun to watch in their interactions. The writing and producing is from the same team that does the current version of Dr. Who so the dialog has a wit and energy not normally associated with Doyle's writing.

Speaking of Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman, people outside the series are recognizing how good they are. They are getting important roles in huge movies. I wondered if that would interfer with the producting of the series. Luckily, so far it has not.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 12:57 PM

It's got as much to do with Conan Doyle's Sherlock as Pride and Prejudice with Zombies has to do with Jane Austen. So what? This kind of stuff doesn't in any way harm the originals, or make it harder to access them. If anything it directs more people towards them.

I'll watch this, and enjoy it. But I can't imagine going back to it again and again, as I do with the stories.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 01:27 PM

I watched an episode on TV. Or most of it. Turned me off.

Saw that a judge ruled the original "Sherlock Holmes" public domain, so I guess "Holmes the Undead" will be next.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 02:08 PM

I love it.
Jacqui and I watched two episodes New Years Eve and didn't know it was midnight until we heard fireworks. Sherlock,the Dominatrix and the beheading - all great fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Anne Lister
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 02:08 PM

I hate the way threads that start off so positively, with people enthusing about something they've really enjoyed, so rapidly become full of comments from those who don't like whatever it is. Puts me right off Mudcat, to be honest. What is so important about not liking something that means that your negativity has to be added to a positive thread? No one expects everyone to like everything - it'd be amazing if we all shared the same taste.
However I for one love "Sherlock" and want to cheer from the rooftops for some intelligent, well-written, well acted and original tv drama which nods to some classic fiction while putting it in a modern context. Don't like it? Simple - don't watch it!

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 03:18 PM

You expect 100 percent positive? My, my.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 05:01 PM

21 posts, and only two from people saying they didn't like it.   Remarking that it is only remotely related to Conan Doyle's Sherlock isn't a hostile comment. The shame is there are so few episodes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 05:09 PM

Disappointed to see the writers lifted the climax of V for Vendetta wholesale and rebranded it - just without the climax. Boo! Lazy writing.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 05:42 PM

Ah well, it's said that everything in fiction boils down to 7 basic plots...

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 05:52 PM

I first read the Sherlock Holmes stories in my teens - over 50 years ago - and have re-read them many, many times since then. I have the 2-volume annotated version of the stories, which points out all the great inconsistencies and impossibilities in the "canon", and has notes at the side of each page - many from the pens of the Baker Street Irregulars. I have an original copy of the first "Strand" Magazine to contain a SH story, which is a prized possession.

None of which stops me from enjoying the modern TV take on the stories, which is done with great good humour and wit. It's just fast-moving fun and enjoyable television - something which seems to be all too rare these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 08:12 PM

I liked the characterization by Jeremy Brett- I have watched episodes more than once, and have considered buying the series.
Being intrigued by that characterization perhaps has prevented me from accepting other versions.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 09:09 PM

But Jeremy Brett's Sherlock and Benedict Cumberbatch's aren't in the same universe even. It's a bit like saying that after watching Errol Flynn playing Robin Hood you couldn't accept Walt Disney's cartoon fox in the same role.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket in tights
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 03:01 AM

That fox brought a depth of character that was truly appreciated by those of us growing up around Sherwood Forest I'll have you know!

They even managed to make Maid Marion look a bit foxy......

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 03:53 AM

There has never been a better portrayal of Shelock Holmes than Jeremy Brett, but the new Sherlock [ Benedict Cumberbatch ] is still excellent.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 04:23 AM

My favourite characterisation of Holmes was always Basil Rathbone in the 1940s films - perfect face and voice, very like the original illustrations - but he was let down by a facile Nigel Bruce as Watson and very poor plots.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 05:40 AM

Absolutely agree re Rathbone, Will: always the definitive Holmes for me; tho I rather liked Nigel Bruce's bumbling Watson SFAIR -- it was a very long time ago.

However, tho I use the word 'definitive', I appreciate that this is always a dangerous way to regard any particular performance of any character. My late wife Valerie would always assert that there should be a law against anybody but Sean Connery playing James Bond; when I asked if there should not therefore be a similar law against anyone but Burbage playing Hamlet [not Garrick, Kean, Irving, Beerbohm-Tree, Martin-Harvey, Fechter, Gielgud, Olivier, Redgrave, [cont p 94]), she would change the subject!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 06:28 AM

Totally agree regarding Basil Rathbone. The films were reaired on tele during my early teens, and utterly hooked me.

I'm with MtheGM on Nigel Bruce's Watson. Clearly non canonical but most entertaining. Matthew Bunson (author of 'The Sherlock Holmes Encyclopaedia) bemoans his buffoonery, but accepts that he was hugely loved. And were it not for Bruce, would we ever have had the phrase "Elementary, my dear Watson"?

I have to say that I find the idea that Holmes shouldn't be re-imagined for a different age rather odd. After all, isn't that one of the wonderful things about folk music? That you can reinvent it in a myriad of ways?

I feel the same way about Sherlock.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 06:31 AM

Sorry, the above was me (not that it matters much)

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 07:34 AM

"Ah well, it's said that everything in fiction boils down to 7 basic plots..."

Sending a tube train carriage packed full of explosives into a disused and abandoned tube station underneath the Houses of Parliament in order to blow them up on Guy Fawkes Night, is a great original storyline! Or at least it *was* a great original storyline in V for Vendetta.

It's a shame the writers of Sherlock took two whole years just to copy someone else's work. I hope they do better next time. Demerits all round :-/

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 08:18 AM

It's not very different from the original story of Guy Fawkes is it? V for Vendetta did not have an original plot device there, just an updated one.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 08:25 AM

Beerbohm-Tree?

I know you keep telling us you are knocking on a bit... Give my regards to Gladstone.

Just a thought. I may well be wrong (as opposed to not agreeing with weird people) but..

There is always an obsession with earlier versions always being better than modern ones. I reckon you need to factor in nostalgia for bygone days before making such judgements.

Perhaps Mr Holmes may have written a vignette on the subject?

(Ok Michael. Cards on table. I even named my sprog Sean.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 08:50 AM

Portraying Watson as a buffoon was a mistake, Doyle wrote him as a distinguished ex army surgeon, invalided out after being wounded, you don't get to be like that if you are a buffoon.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 12:59 PM

Musket ~~ Did he demand his milk shaken not stirred?

Don't quite get your point re Beerbohm-Tree. I once mentioned Sophocles in a post, but I can't see that as a claim to have been at the first night of Antigone.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 01:26 PM

I remember meeting Basil Rathbone when I was much, much younger. I still have his autograph somewhere. I never missed his films.
Excellent in the role of Sherlock, but I think Brett was superior.

There have been several Miss Marple, but in my opinion, Joan Hickson eclipsed them all.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 03:07 PM

I heard the only reason you couldn't get a ticket for Antigone was that you weren't fast enough.

Any road up. Could I suggest you run pronto to the Xmas 1914 thread? Your mate is struggling a bit. He needs the credible respectability you bring to the proceedings.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 06:39 PM

"It's not very different from the original story of Guy Fawkes is it? "

And equally fictitious as that seems to have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 01:02 AM

No one has mentioned Downy's Holmes or Costner's Robin Hood. Talk about re-invention.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 01:59 AM

You forgot to add The New Testament Jack.







Sorry. I know. This is how it starts. I'll shut up now.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 05:23 AM

I once saw about 5 minutes of an episode of this new Sherlock. Vile, vile, vile. It traduces the written original, makes oiks out of gentlemen, shows the brothers as squabbling bullies. Disgusting in every respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 06:56 AM

Oh Richard - say what you really mean - stop sitting on the fence!

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 07:28 AM

What I like about the first episode, of this new series, is that it still keeps you guessing about the last scene, in the last series, in which Sherlock appeared to fling himself off the roof of Bart's Hospital and die on the pavement. Obviously, Sherlock survived this fall - but how? Two possible scenarios were presented in the programme - both of which may have been fictional. But there was a suggestion, in the script, that there are 13 possibilities!! Now I didn't see that coming!

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 08:28 AM

I rather think that in the forthcoming episodes we'll be given more of those possibilities.

Subsequent variations on stories and characters can never damage the originals, and it really is pointless to rush to the defence of our fictional friends who are under no kind of attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 11:20 AM

Sherlock season 3 schedule USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 11:59 AM

I would guess Richard Bridge and myself will be the only two not watching-

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 12:30 PM

Thank you for telling us that Q. Seem that you will have to avoid Moriarty's minions tying you to a chair and forcing you to watch it at gunpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Sherlock is back...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 14 - 12:43 PM

I'll be all tied up with Jeremy Brett's portrayal. Moriarty loses.