BS: A year without God

Subject: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 09:11 PM

It is an NPR article.

This was not posted to provoke arguments or insults. Civil comments are welcome. Semantic complaints can be made in the comments section of the interview so that the author of the article can deal with them.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 09:30 PM

Oh... I see what it's about. And I agree with many others- some in his congregation. You don't 'really' pretend to be an atheist from such a perspective.
I am reminded of Descartes decision to formally 'doubt' the existence of God. Even Descartes knew it was only a logical doubt... but the Catholic church was not amused, and Descartes spent some time backing down.

I'm not sure what kind of 'sign' this preacher expected in his year... struck by lightning? A visit from some angels?

Now.. I personally knew a Unitarian minister who started as a Southern Baptist. He explained that he "..woke up one morning realizing that he could no longer get up and spout the standard line."
He still was concerned about 'issues', so he became a Unitarian. His change came from inside... not some cloak of a test.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 10:03 PM

It seems odd that he would announce the change, or say that it is only for a year, or that NPR would consider it newsworthy.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 10:05 PM

Bully for the pastor - brave.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 11:24 PM

I read about it on CNN. I ain't touchin' this one.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:37 AM

This is not from NPR

This was not posted to provoke arguments or insults. Civil comments are welcome. Semantic complaints can be made in the comments section of the interview so that the author of the article can deal with them.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 02:00 AM

A year without God?

A month without his reps knocking on my door would be a start.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 03:37 AM

A little muddle-headed of the pastor.
If you are a Christian (or member of any other major religion) you can choose to spend a year ignoring God, but this will not be a "year without God".

Reminds me of the prayer:
"O Lord, Thou knowest how busy I must be this day; if I forget Thee, do not Thou forget me;"

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 04:43 AM

Professional religious leaders, like many other leaders, often feel obliged to pretend to have a quick answer to all questions. This expectation is wrong; complying to it fosters doubt rather than faith. Refusing to answer for one year - or "as long as it takes" - is a wise decision. You may find new answers, more modest but going deeper into the true nature of humankind and religion.

In other words: the problem is not God, but theology and dogma.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 05:06 AM

A year without church is hardly the same as a year without God. After all it's quite possible to to church every day and have no kind of belief in God.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 07:37 AM

First, questioning god (or his existence) does not an atheist make.

Second, if the person in question was an atheist for a year did that make him less moral? Thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 07:51 AM

"First, questioning god (or his existence) does not an atheist make.

Second, if the person in question was an atheist for a year did that make him less moral? Thought not."

Completely agree, but where in the article does the minister concerned claim either of those things?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 08:11 AM

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a mechanic."

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 08:48 AM

Christianity:
The belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 09:07 AM

Did the earth move?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 09:50 AM

Regarding the quote above about churches and garages: if you follow Jesus Christ, you're a Christian. If you follow your mechanic, you're gonna wind up with a restraining order.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 10:17 AM

Good one Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 10:36 AM

Ditto. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 01:21 PM

GUEST: The nice thing about Christianity is that they don't cut your heart out and sacrifice you to the Rain God every time there's a dry spell. I think most of of us forget what an advantage that is.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 01:34 PM

Good one Stim!

May I add....

And our figurehead does not die. Leading to embarrassing statements like...

"I know we told you that Kim was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now it is this Kim."

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 03:04 PM

Yeah but Kim had a better scorecard on the golf course.

He existed too.....

Obviously, Stim seems to gloss over the inquisition, crusades, child abuse.... The largest enquiry into institutionalised child abuse in The UK has just started in Northern Ireland. The children there had more than a year without God. Sadly the nuns and priests had them daily....

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 03:20 PM

I once started singing "I saw the light" and realized I was a Zoroastrian.

It is my opinion that if you can CHOOSE what to believe in, you're a fake. It's like brainwashing yourself. You can turn your back on your beliefs and go against them, or hate what you believe in, but you still believe in it.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 04:09 PM

I don't gloss over anything, Musket. I am at least as aware of history and current events as you, and as outraged by all sorts of hypocrisy and inhumanity, as you might be, as well.

Given that, I think that you, and I, and everyone else are a lot better off living in a places that, on a good day at least, make some effort to follow the Laws of Moses and the Golden Rule, than in places that embraced the "old ways" which embraced ritual human sacrifice as a response to all problems great and small.

And props to all the Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and all who try to moral, ethical, and compassionate lives according to whichever teachings they embrace.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 04:14 PM

For a minute there, I thought that was a promise.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 04:39 PM

Fair do's Stim.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,antisemantic
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 04:40 PM

I'm Wordless

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 05:47 PM

I think knot.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:36 PM

Saw this on facebook

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 04:13 AM

"make some effort to follow the Laws of Moses" I'm just off to kill some witches, though I promise not to eat any shellfish.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 06:26 AM

Straight over their heads Marianne.

Our congregation, with the noble exception of pete are decaffeinated Christians. The need to look smug and superior overrides the need to believe in any of it.

it would be helpful if Jerk posted after my posts citing the rule number the previous post was breaking. You see I'm scoring them on a bingo card and sweating on a line. Can't wait for full house! Probably have to shag a pit monster or something to get that far though.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 12:12 AM

Yep. We didn't get that at all, Marianne. And Musket is so much more clever than everyone else, it makes us want to puke. He is a regular Malcomb Muggeridge.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Marianne S.
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 07:50 AM

I didn't feel the need to explain because I assumed you would know I was referring to the less appealing aspects of the Laws of Moses. I assumed you *would* get it.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 10:10 AM

Either the man will wind up by announcing that he's become an atheist for real, or he'll announce that despite his year-long rejection of God, only God prevented him from doing godless evil.

Other possibilities?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 11:07 AM

He will drift off in to the sunset never to be heard from again?

He will have a life-changing experience and find he's actually attracted to other men, come out of the closet and be spurned by his old religious friends?

He will roll his car in a drunken stupor and die?

God will tap his shoulder and tell him to stfu?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 12:08 PM

He will move to Canada and post smartassed remarks on this forum without no identification other than a time stamp?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 12:23 PM

Judging by recent posts, I wouldn't hold my breath...

"Straight over their heads" refers to our more vocal Christian congregation. The less appealing is glossed over unless they are throwing their creed in your face and calling you a militant atheist or such insults when you question them.

A year without God is one thing. A thread without the bearded one would be nice.




Guest. It's spelt Malcolm. As in "holier than thou and tried to get the medieval blasphemy law reenacted. He also tried to get Life of Brian banned. Nice of you to compare me to a God Botherer of the first degree. Presumably he now has an insight into whether heaven exists or not....

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 03:47 PM

". . . without no identification other than a time stamp?"

Probably. Unlike the guy who moved from Canada to post drivel from the US. It's in how you look at things.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 06:39 PM

One man's drivel....

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 07:57 PM

Yep.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 05:20 AM

Eyup Jack. The guest wasn't me, but I'd like to take this opportunity to say "I wish I'd said that."

Ones man's drivel needs wiping with a napkin by a carer......

Nurse!

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 08:01 AM

Haven't heard Malcolm Muggeridge mentioned in a long time. You might not realize that he was something of a fixture on American television, with his contrary but entertaining, literate, and amusing comments. He actually helped to make "Life of Brian" a rather large grossing movie here, because without his comments, the religiously indignant wouldn't have come out to protest its showing, which boosted the attendance incredibly.

It is often forgotten that he started out as a communist sympathizer and atheist (or at least an agnostic) and also forgotten that he was one of the first to expose the enormity of Stalin's brutality to a Western intellectual community who'd pretty much fallen for "Russia's Noble Experiment" till then.

Anyway, there are worse people to be compared to...

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 08:36 AM

I'm sure there are Stim. Just thought his holier than thou later life was more relevant to this debate than his exposure of world communism in the face of intellectual fools.

I don't mind being compared to an intellectual. So long as nobody mistakes me for one.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:55 AM

" I don't mind being compared to an intellectual. So long as nobody mistakes me for one. "


Of course, Mr. Musket, I am less than heartbroken or surprised to think that you may think of anything I post as drivel. May I ask a personal question? Is your tendency to express the same thoughts over and over again part of your strategy to prevent people from mistaking you for an intellectual?

Thanks for the information about Malcolm Muggeridge Stim. I find it interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 12:21 PM

You perceptive old bugger you!

Rumbled me.

Those who laugh at you obviously have you wrong Sherlock.

Mind you , I can't come up with a reason for your drivel. Sorry about that me old duck.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 12:44 PM

I don't mind being compared to a heroin addicted yet supernaturally perceptive fictional character as long as nobody mistakes me for one.

You could be kinder than to describe my postings as drivel. You could be wiser in that you are inviting comparison to your own.... What would be the kindest way to put it? "attempts at comprehensible humor?" "idiosyncratic insights"? Efforts?

Yeah lets just say "efforts."   

You could be kinder than to describe my postings as drivel. You may be wiser not to do so in that you are inviting comparison to your own efforts.

I don't see anyone laughing at me except you and I expect you to come to your senses before too long.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 01:29 AM

Nothing wrong in leaving the stage to the sound of your own footsteps.

Ever thought the applause you are hearing is in your own head?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 03:43 AM

Ever thought that that standing ovation that you were so excited about was nothing more than a visit from Captain Morning Wood!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 05:57 AM

From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 15 Jan 14 - 12:23 PM

Judging by recent posts, I wouldn't hold my breath...

"Straight over their heads" refers to our more vocal Christian congregation. The less appealing is glossed over unless they are throwing their creed in your face and calling you a militant atheist or such insults when you question them.

A year without God is one thing. A thread without the bearded one would be nice.
Of course, there is a tendency to ascribe some of the weirder laws of the Old Testament to Christians.
A little reading of the New Testament would show how inaccurate this is. Whilst Christ (whom I assume you're referring to as "the bearded one") commented on the laws of Moses, he also replaced them.
Rather than the old view of "an eye for an eye" he preached that we should "turn the other cheek".
Rather than parrot the laws of Moses (be it 10 commandments, or all the rest) he summarised "Love the Lord you God with all your heart etc.) and "Love your neighbour as yourself".
Dietary requirements don't seem to get a look-in!

As for "a thread without the bearded one", I would be surprised if Christ did not get a mention in a thread about a Christian minister and his view of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 08:24 AM

Nigel.stop being serious. Goofus is reading and we don't want to confuse him.

Goofus. Woody wouldn't give a standing ovation, he gives a crowd roaring Mexican wave of appreciation....



Go on then Nigel. Is a year without the Old Testament a year without God, if it is a year with Jesus?

To a curious onlooker as myself, who isn't and never has been a member of a religious cult, society or organisation, why would you differentiate between God and Jesus anyway? I am sure I recall something about holy trinity? God the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

If in accuracy is thrown in, why not believe in ghosts too? The god concept is utterly beyond realistic concept anyway, so what difference does a bloke in a bed sheet make?

I would fully commend a year without God. Being able to climb a mountain and look out without ascribing the beauty to something so limiting. Peering through a telescope and letting your mind ponder what you are really looking at, without the limiting silly answers found in translations of ancient stories.

I feel a song coming on..


THE HILLS ARE ALIVE, WITH THE SOUN.....    I wonder what key it is in?

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 02:40 AM

Being able to climb a mountain and look out without ascribing the beauty to something so limiting. Peering through a telescope and letting your mind ponder what you are really looking at, without the limiting silly answers found in translations of ancient stories.

I agree. Though it is also worthwhile to ponder what you are really looking at without the limiting answers of modern stories. Einstein, for example, pondered without being bound by the prevailing scientific understanding of the time. It is important to appreciate just how little we really know, whatever informs your understanding. And while science has a great handle on quantum mechanics and a moderate handle on neuroscience, its ability to deal with 'beauty' is limited, I would suggest.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 03:07 AM

To be fair, I am not pondering whether Higgs boson theory is clouding the view either. If they pop into existence, good for them but for me the view from up there cannot be put into words.

I reckon Einstein was getting at the same thing, only far more eloquently. A

The superstitious world view is a bit like dismissing the infinity of the cadences in most of what Bach wrote as being mere examples of musical structure. That he teased us with cadences in the glory of a god rather being an example of how limiting his god was is rather ironic.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 07:04 AM

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

A Robin Redbreast in a Cage
Puts all Heaven in a Rage.
A dove house fill'd with doves and pigeons
Shudders Hell thro' all its regions.
A Dog starv'd at his Master's Gate
Predicts the ruin of the State.
A Horse misus'd upon the Road
Calls to Heaven for Human blood.
Each outcry of the hunted Hare
A fiber from the Brain does tear.

He who shall train the Horse to War
Shall never pass the Polar Bar.
The Beggar's Dog and Widow's Cat,
Feed them and thou wilt grow fat.
The Gnat that sings his Summer song
Poison gets from Slander's tongue.
The poison of the Snake and Newt
Is the sweat of Envy's Foot.

A truth that's told with bad intent
Beats all the Lies you can invent.
It is right it should be so;
Man was made for Joy and Woe;
And when this we rightly know
Thro' the World we safely go.

Every Night and every Morn
Some to Misery are Born.
Every Morn and every Night
Some are Born to sweet delight.
Some are Born to sweet delight,
Some are Born to Endless Night.


(With thanks to Mr Blake.)

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 12:29 PM

"Being able to climb a mountain and look out without ascribing the beauty to something so limiting. Peering through a telescope and letting your mind ponder what you are really looking at, without the limiting silly answers found in translations of ancient stories."

"I agree. Though it is also worthwhile to ponder what you are really looking at without the limiting answers of modern stories"

A theory among modern neuroscientists is that our, personality, what makes us think of ourselves as individuals is our stories, those we tell others, those we tell ourselves.

I am a having hard time imagining people looking at a scenic vista and letting their minds wander but not having that wandering encroach upon the stories within that mind. It literally seems inhuman to me.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 12:43 PM

Its not only neuroscientists who think that: philosophers have for centuries, psychiatrists for a somewhat shorter time.

I'm all for letting stories of all kind encroach on your mind. I have a harder time with the idea of people deliberately blocking certain types of story because they don't agree with the origin.

Subject: RE: BS: A year without God
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Jan 14 - 01:31 PM

DMcG I agree completely.