BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....

Subject: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Claire M
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 09:39 AM

Hiya,

I'm always, *always* dry. I can drink loads, then ½ hr later I feel as if I haven't had anything to drink. I feel if I don't have a drink I'll choke. I'm a CPAP patient w/ & an under active thyroid, been tested for diabetes 4x but don't have it. I've been so dry before that I thought about drinking my nail varnish remover – but as a leaky folkie I need to watch my fluids (this is ridiculous – could understand if/when it was beer) & staff here love to be too careful w/ it.

Heating constantly on here, asked for it to be turned down but it's got to be @ high temp cos lots of us get cold. The Consort loves his sugar but he's never dry, nor does he get stressed/panicky when needing drinks either. When I was small I hardly used to drink anything!!

Any ideas ??

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 09:50 AM

I use a CPAP machine as well and while my mouth is dry in the mornings I cannot say that I am particularly thirsty the rest of the time. Maybe medical advice would be better? Do you use any diuretics or take anything that would act as one?

Different type of drinking but sort of related. Just over a year ago I was drinking coffee through the day like it was going out of fashion and even eating roast coffee beans by the handful. In the evening I would drink at least a bottle of wine without it having the 'normal' effect. Then I was found to be severely anemic. Took iron tablets for a while and now just have 1 or 2 coffees a day and only indulge in my favourite tipples at weekend. It was my body needing the extra energy provided by both substances because my muscles could not get enough oxygen. Glad to say that for the past 10 or so months I have been fine.

Maybe your body is telling you something?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 09:54 AM

That is one of the classic symptoms of diabetes. Drinking too much liquid can end up with you washing out important electrolytes and cause it's own kind of problem. I hope you can find a doctor who will do more than just look at one test for one guess.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 11:17 AM

I was given a prescription by an ENT for a sleep test. Told me I had a deviated septum. Kind of odd since he told me I didn't have one four months prior to that. I had already done a sleep test with a camcorder on nightvision. Man it was painful to watch me. My diagnosis : sleep apnea. Cause : me nose shut tight when I laid down. Given the fact that this quack had screwed up so badly on another matter, I didn't bother. Instead, I waited a while and asked my GP to refer me to a different ENT. I don't have sleep apnea because she took one, well, two looks and said, "I can fix that with turbinate reduction surgery." She did. No sleep test. No expensive machine or masks. I can get nose bleeds in extremely cold weather if I breathe through my nose for any length of time so I bought a treadmill for indoor walking during the winter.

Hmmm... car wouldn't start this AM. Had to boost it. It was -17C. I just had a slight nosebleed in one nostril. Maybe I need a heated garage?

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 11:30 AM

Is the air going into your CPAP humidified properly?

What's the humidity in your room? (Humidity meters are cheap).

Can you breathe through your nose? (I couldn't until I had surgery for it - made a great improvement on mouth dryness that had affected me for most of my life).

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 12:06 PM

Frequent thirst is claimed to be a symptom of diabetes and/or pre-diabetes conditions, although there are other possible causes. Low thyroid function can cause, or contribute to, the urge for more liquids. (Your doctor may be able to provide a thyroid supplement if that's appropriate.)

The serious diabetics of my acquaintance agree that sipping cold liquids is more effective than gulping large quantities of fluids. LiK is constntly accompanied by her "go-cup" that she fills with ICE (and hammers it down to get as much in as she can) and then adds a bit of tea. Mostly what she constantly sips is just melted - but still cold - ice water, although she's an "ice-sucker" when crushed ice or the last of the melting cubes is available.

If you find that you're one of those for whom this works, a spoonful of crushed ice (sucked and melted in the mouth - NOT CHEWED) may be as effective as a glass full of something, if used frequently and regularly. (Small ice crushers were a popular accessory for all the coctail parties people thought they would have, but never did, back in the 50s. They probably can still be found, although I haven't looked recently.)

Both CPAP and Oxygen Concentrator machines do have a tendency to dry out your airways, and normal heating systems may drastically reduce room humidity. The breathing machines can be equipped with "humidifiers" to provide some moisture in the air they pump at you, but most of these are so poorly designed that they deliver "drips and spurts" of droplets that may give the impression someone is trying to drown you.

It's hard to find an effective humidifier to raise the humidity of the room air in your immediate area. "Personal inhalators" that claim to provide "cold steam" that you can sniff in are widely advertised and might help, although I haven't found one that does much for me. "Sniffing" the steam off the top of a hot beverage works about as well as most, for me; but you have to keep the cup warm.

John

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 12:12 PM

Check out diabetes insipidus.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 01:17 PM

There is a "dry mouth" toothpaste that may help a bit.

BTW, I used to have my teeth cleaned more often often than yer average bear but that got cut in half after the nose op. Apparently, when the mouth is open, bacteria which normally live in saliva multiply much faster and plaque builds up much faster.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 02:41 PM

Claire, I feel the best advice to give is that you arrange to see a doctor and insist politely that this isn't normal and that you need investigation. If nothing else, it will put your mind at ease.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:23 PM

I'm another CPAP user. The CPAP machine includes an air
moisturizer. I'd estimate that the water reservoir holds
2/3 of a pint. The CPAP airflow passes through the
reservoir and picks up moisture from the mildly-heated
distilled water therein.

Each night about half of that 2/3 pint of distilled water
is picked up by the air being pushed to the mask for me to
breathe. Some of that moisture, I'm sure, escapes to the
ambient air in the mask's exhaust, which is partly my
exhaled air and partly CPAP oversupply. I don't know how much
of the supplied moisture is actually applied to my breathing
organs each night.

I'm never impressed in the morning with a feeling of
being particularly dry, nor am I plagued with thirst
through my waking hours. Indeed, my Beautiful Wife, (who
drinks so much water that she sloshes when she walks, I
think) never tires of urging me to drink more water,
drink more water, drink more water.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:43 PM

The CPAP humidifier is probably more successful than the similar ones on Oxygen Concentrators (or tanks), since CPAPs generally use a mask quite close to where the moisture is added. The Oxy systems frequently have long hoses (50 ft plus) for those who need the oxygen while they wander about, and the moisture added by the humidifier can condense in the hose, after which it squirts and spurts up your nose.

If using oxygen as a sleep aid (for Apnea?) a shorter night time hose may help as much as anything, with the longer one reserved for walkabout use.

Breathing dry air often increases the nasal congestion you feel, but sometimes may show its effect with "being thirsty." The thirst (of the kind described) is somewhat more likely to come from some other primary cause.

(Personal observations. Not medical opinions, of course.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 04:57 PM

My sympathies to CPAP users. Lucky for me, I guess, this is the first I have heard of them. Interesting thread, thanks all.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 14 - 05:10 PM

No sympathy required. No hardship and HUGE benefits. For me anyway. Due to perennial allergic rhinitis and nasal polyps I breath through the mouth when relaxed anyway. The CPAP machine does not cause me any more dryness than I experienced normally and for the first time in about 20 years I get a good nights sleep. Of course loosing about 4 stone would help but the machine will do in the meanwhile :-)

Back to Claire. I agree about the diabetes check. Someone close has suffered from type 1 for years and one of the first symptoms was thirst but it was coupled with pee-ing a lot at night too. If it is not too personal a question, does this happen? How are you becoming so dehydrated? Main thing, as we all say though, see a doctor!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Claire M
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 09:36 AM

Hiya,

I do drink lots of water. Most people here don't. I've always been a bit breathless (born 3mo early) Like the crushed ice idea --only where will I find a crushed-ice machine in the UK?? The care home (not just this one either) seems to have an idea that you can drink too much & that there's a certain amount that should be drunk each day. Rubbish; some like to drink more (me & several of my flatmates), some like less (screaming flatmate)& it would save a lot of hassle if fluid charting was stopped.

It sounds more & more like it's the extra work the staff will end up doing that they don't want. In which case, in the words of my dad; there's the door.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 10:13 AM

If you can get ice cubes,Claire, this will crush them.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 11:07 AM

See your doctor.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 06:52 PM

Of course losing about 4 stone would help

OK, Dave, serious post coming up. Last July I was 17 stone (and six foot tall). My height hasn't changed (!) but I now weigh just under 14 stone. I have not "been on a diet", I am not ill, I haven't given up drinking (though it's mostly wine, and beer just once a week, nothing's changed there), I haven't given up spuds or bread or any other food ingredient, I eat meat by the ton, I love my food - and I couldn't believe how easy it was. I've dug out shirts and jeans I haven't been able to wear for over ten years (and had to ditch a few more recent purchases!) A year ago I had to buy some 42" waist trousers to go to a wedding last March. I kid you not - on Wednesday this week I bought a new pair, perfect fit - 34" waist! I did put on 3lb over Christmas, but that's all gone again, plus another 5lb!

Sounds like one of those unbelievable popups we all get which involves watching a tedious 30-minute video before they get to the point (which is to extract money from you), but this is the real McCoy.

It would take an essay to explain how I've done this and I may well pen such a script, given a day or three. I can tell you how I'm doing it if you like. PM probably - let me know. No money will change hands! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Musket
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:15 AM

I remember many years ago I lost about three stone for no reason. I felt great. I was fitter than I had ever been, although I was still in my 20s, so fitness is relative. As far as I was concerned, the only problems were convincing the coal board to get me a fresh set of smaller overalls and losing my place in a local rugby team as first choice tight head prop.

I felt great!

However... My gran looked at me and said, I kid you not, "Ooh, you don't look good our lad. Sit down and I'll get the chip pan on. A lad of your age... Are things ok at home? You haven't got any worries have you?"

She and my Mum conspired to get me to go to see the GP. He had me pissing over litmus paper, convinced I had become diabetic.... The same GP years later referred me for a sleep study, but for me, blowing my nose more often was all it took. I had a CPAP for a week to compare but my oxygen saturation made no difference.

Anyway, the weight came back as quick as it left. I have been 6'3" or so and 17 stone give or take ever since. I don't know what the trick was, but at times, my knees and chronic bad back tell me to lose the beer gut. Two weeks skiing last month didn't help either as although the exercise was good, the resort is in the Savoire with all that dairy food..........

If I lose it, I don't have any smaller trousers, so on economic grounds, I shall order pork scratchings with my first pint tonight.

If you feel good Steve, you quite possibly are. Good man.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 04:24 AM

PM on it's way Steve but now you have gone public I suspect you will get loads of requests to publish. Go for it - You could make a fortune. But not before you give it me for free :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 05:39 AM

The care home (not just this one either) seems to have an idea that you can drink too much

They're right, and if they have schizophrenic residents they have to worry about it. Polydipsia in psychotics can be fatal.

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 11:33 AM

Exactly, Jack. The brain swells as excess fluid leaches into it from the tissues by osmosis. Also, essential salts and minerals are diluted to deficiency levels. The only way Claire is to see your GP and insist on some tests. Best wishes. Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: always gagging for a drink, oh .....
From: Musket
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 05:42 AM

Just as an aside, concerning care homes and hydration.

In England, care homes are registered with and inspected by The Care Quality Commission, who have powers to enforce improvement or shut them down, as they occasionally do. I was part of this up till recently and can say that care homes have a legal duty* regarding nutrition and hydration. Your hydration must be monitored on daily checks as per you care plan and your care plan must assess your individual circumstances and needs, including medical.

I don't know if you are in England Claire, but if you are, and you are in residential care, you need to speak with the carers and look at your care record with them. if you are elsewhere you need to too if you are concerned, but I only know the law for England. In any event, you have the right to see a GP, and not have to explain why but request an appointment.




*The Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities Regulations 2010)