Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)

Subject: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Stu
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 05:13 AM

Tony Benn died this morning. News report here.

I was lucky enough to meet him after "An Audience with…" in Buxton, where he was typically forthright in his views and fielded questions from the audience about a range of subjects, including his role in the development of Concorde. I found him an inquisitive and most respectful chap, who asked me how I earned my living and shook my hand firmly, and even though he was simply signing books he took time to speak to each person as an individual.

We won't see his like again in British politics. He was a weathercock, not a a sheep and most of all he genuinely valued truth and whether you agreed with him or not had integrity and a weight of intellect that meant his opponents often ended up simply calling him names.

He was an actual, real politician and the world is a poorer place because of his passing.

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 05:15 AM

How saddening. A real man of integrity and an honest politician. Last of a rare breed.

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Musket
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 05:31 AM

One of the last of the true orators.

I was fortunate enough to know him when he was an MP and I chaired a local NHS body so had plenty of dealings with him.   (Even got a mention in his published diaries....). We didn't always agree on matters, but his concerns were always borne of compassion and putting the patient perspective. I learned a lot from him.

His style was to polarise, and was rather radical. In some, that can be a failing. In him, it heightened his integrity.   Mind you, many used to rib him that his main success, the introduction of Concorde benefited those he had no mandate for.....

As a singer, I once followed him on stage at a Labour Party rally in Clowne. To say he warmed them up is an understatement. It was rather daunting to get up on stage after that.. Dennis Skinner had to follow me, but that's another story from another age. I wasn't even a party member.

In later years, I went to see him during his talk tours, at Sheffield City Hall, (I think). He sat on the front of the stage and started talking.

Wow.

Regardless of whether his outlook, ideas or position was in tune with your own, you couldn't help being sat there mesmerised.

I recommend reading his "Letters to my Grandchildren". It might just make you stop and think.

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 07:50 AM

Given Tony Benn's long-standing stage show with Roy Bailey - The Writing on the Wall - they even won best duo at the BBC Folk Awards! - this could easily go above the line ...
Derek

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 08:43 AM

Saw him in the above show at Loughborough Festival - a mesmerising 90 minutes which flew by and received a standing ovation from a packed audience. RIP Tony Benn.

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 08:51 AM

Sad news!

A conviction politician who "walked the walk" (giving up a hereditary peerage and all that went with it), an honest man of great wisdom and commonsense.

I am disheartened to see the end of the last genuine Socialist politician.

How long will we wait for another such?

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 09:11 AM

JAFP - just another politician

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 10:33 AM

RIP good sir.

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Ringer
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 11:42 AM

"JAFP - just another politician"

Not so, guest, Roger. He was a politician amongst cringing, snivelling, arse-lickers and time-servers.

I disagreed with him on just about every subject except the EU, which he hated and despised, as I do.

He was my constituency MP, and could then often be found in Chesterfield market place on a Saturday morning ready to be approached by anybody.

As others have said, we are impoverished by his death, and shall not see his like again.

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Acorn4
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 12:39 PM

RIP Tony,

Now we're just left with PR men who look good in suits!

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Penny S.
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 01:00 PM

Actually, they increasingly remind me of the animated window dummies from Dr Who and the Avengers. And Ray Davis' Plastic Man

Only the other day, someone discussing the death of Bob Crow referenced what would happen when Tony Benn went - praise fromt he other side, for instance.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: RIP: Tony Benn
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 14 - 09:19 PM

Well I was always to the left of Tony Benn (note "was": I'm honest enough to know what happens to us rabid lefties as we grow old...). Much affectionate comment has been heard today, which is heartening. But I've heard people like Joe Haynes, Denis Healey and Shirley Williams rattling on about how he "almost fatally divided the party", etc. Well bollocks to that! Labour started out as the socialist alternative and the people who wrecked that vision were gits like the opportunist SDP bastards, Kinnock, Blair and his sorry ilk, as well as their wretched successors the likes of whom we see running Labour today, who blow with the bloody wind whipped up by the latest "opinion polls". Not a principle in sight. The people who really divided the party, and set it on its course of paying more than lip service to the US, to corporatism, to privatisation and to the undemocratic institutions of the EU, were Benn's political enemies, not Benn! A great bloke dies and the proto-revisionists crawl out of the woodwork...

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: GUEST,True socialist
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 05:30 AM

Always sickening to hear these false eulogies. Even some admitted he "changed" in Office. Like Tony Blair, Lord Robertson of NATO, Broon, Dahling. etc. He demonstrated against Trident - in opposition. He was opposed to Nuclear power, till he became the Min of Tech and changed, as Dame Shirley Williams, Now Lib Dem, and Dennis Healey, ex CPGB, admitted on TV. He supported the building of Torness and Hunterston power stations in Scotland, which led to the closure of most of the Scottish pits before Thatcher was in power. Both he and Barbara Castle were on TV, practically in tears, saying that no man should be labouring in the bowels of the earth in this day and age. when he wanted the pits closed. He supported (Lords) Wilson and Callaghan's "White Hot Technical Revolution" and Labour Pay Freezes. Their "Winter of discontent", saw massive "Unofficial Strikes against Labour Pay freezes backed by Tame Unions policing the factories for the Labour Governments and earning more Labour Peerages and Knighthoods.. He supported Troops IN to Ireland with Labour IN 1969 and Troops Out against the Tories in opposition. He signed the PTA in 1974; Diplock Courts; trial and arrest without out Jury Status, etc, etc, being the worst offender of Human Rights in Europe. He also supported Labour Troops in to Glasgow in 1974; driving Ambulances; Fire Engines, Bin Lorries and emptying dustbins, all to scab for a Labour Pay Freeze. He supported the closure of Scottish Trade Unions and the SCWS to be amalgamated it into the British Trade Unions and Coop in 1974. The English Coop bank, factories, farms and stores are now being investigated for corruption. The Bank Director has just jumped the gun, resigning and claiming the Coop Banks " ungovernable". The only Scottish Trade Union left in the "STUC" is the Educational Institute of Scotland, due to the separate education system of Scotland and not the machinations to absorb it into the right wing English "National Union of Teachers". Ironically, John MacLean had to join the SCWS in his day, as teachers were not allowed to join a Trade Union.

As for crawling on Mandela's coat tails. Labour, under Kinnock did not want Mandela released till he renounced violence. Thatcher and the Tories actually said No, just release him at the end. There is nothing that Thatcher has done that Labour has not done before. It was Labour that paved the way for Thatcher. Is it not sickening to0see the artificial Brit left wear. "We still hate Thatcher" T shirts and celebrating her death while eulogising Labour false heroes?

He was in Labour Friends of Israel. It didn't stop George Galloway from Labour Friends of Palestine, eulogising him on TV and getting in on the act with fellow Tory, Unionist praising the great man and wonderful "character". They are all great characters in opposition and darlings of the "artificial" left, as Healy described them, when they are dead. Think of the workers that died for all their wars and of poverty, ill health and overwork.

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 12:18 PM

I guess Tony was a member of The Labour Party to the end?

How would the Labour Party look today if all those who have been praising him, here and in other places, had joined The Party and worked as he did?

Best wishes

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: GUEST,gecko
Date: 15 Mar 14 - 11:21 PM

Vale Tony Benn. A Labour giant to the end surrounded by political midgets of all persuasions. Marched with him one Labour day on The Wirral and when he heard there were Australian friends marching, he took the time to come over to introduce himself and enquire about the parlous state of politics in Oz. John Howard was at the helm in those days and we thought he was a scourge to the working classes but how much worse is the current incumbent, Abbott. Despair at what's happening to this beautiful country is accompanied by anger at the sheer arrogance of this failed seminarian.
Wow! That feels better!
YIU
gecko

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 02:50 AM

And as "true socialist" has pointed out without actually realising it, he was a good politician.

He knew the responsibilities of office and made pragmatic decisions where he may have had philosophical doubts when applying his ideology.

Principles inform decisions. They don't strangle your ability to make decisions in the interest of all stakeholders.

I smile when I read of someone saying a socialist politician should ignore the rich whilst decrying Tories for helping them. Benn was guided, not enslaved. If he were, he wouldn't have agreed to spending the '70s holding ministerial office. He knew that election rhetoric and governing for all represents a dilemma. He had the intelligence to realise that.

Which is why he retired to "spend more time in politics."

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 04:48 AM

I guess Tony Benn was a member of The Labour Party to the end?

How would the Labour Party look today if all those who have been praising him, here and in other places, had joined The Party and worked as he did?

Best wishes

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 05:31 AM

well he got on my tits. the point is that - whatever Labour's failings, and God knows there are many - people at the bottom of the heap, people like me with a disabled wife to take care of -are always taken better care under Labour. and good old Tony made the buggers unelectable for years because he espoused policies that wouldn't wash in 120 odd marginal seats in parliament.

however all that said, he had compassion for people.Matthew Paris in The Times asked yesterday - why don't the tories feel as bitter as socialists do about the memory of Thatcher. I guess its cos he just acted insane, whereas she actually committed acts of insanity.

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 06:53 AM

Well put Al

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Musket
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 08:53 AM

Perhaps those praising him don't necessarily share his ideology?

I certainly don't. I'm a dirty rotten stinking capitalist for what it's worth. Like I said, you can admire an approach without liking it. Sheffield Wednesday got stuffed once by a Leeds Utd team that had the very approach we were lacking at the time. I admired them and their coaching team for doing what ours couldn't at the time.

Doesn't alter my view of Leeds Utd all the same.

Same with Benn. I was lucky enough to have dealings with him. We came from different places, and he certainly didn't agree with the Secretary of State for health who had appointed me. But we were where we were and our meetings were far more fruitful and helpful than those I had with some, but not all of his neighbouring MPs.

For what its worth, I applauded the early work by Kinnock to make Labour electable, carried forward by Smith and culminating in the New Labour ideal. If we could recreate that, with credible leaders and preferably without the war mongering, we can have a labour government that governs for all. I saw a bit of Andrew Marr this morning. I have to say, whilst Osborn is out of touch with the UK he carries the piggy bank key for, Balls instils less confidence now, with a few years to reflect, than he did under the disastrous leadership of Brown.

You need the Benns of this world, for sitting on your left shoulder asking you questions whilst you make decisions. We need the decision makers too, and not quite sure where they are....

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: GUEST,eldergirl
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 09:39 AM

Decision makers are being guided by their financial advisors I expect. And tucking their most self-advancing decisions under a handy bit of Persian carpet.
RIP Tony. Where are your true successors? We need them now, to take on what is gradually becoming a police state.

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 12:27 PM

Good to see his title has passed to his eldest son. You can always trust the aristocracy to do the right thing.

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Van
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 12:49 PM

We still have Dennis Skinner. Apres lui le deluge.

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: Van
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 12:49 PM

We still have Dennis Skinner. Apres lui le deluge.

Subject: RE: Obit: RIP Tony Benn (1925-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 14 - 05:05 PM

We're still stuck with the 50p he introduced - they say based on a machine tool head, the way it cuts holes in your pockets.

Then there was his cancellation of Blue Streak, leaving us paying way over the odds to the Americans for Polaris and Trident.

On the plus side, let's immortalise his five tests for someone in power:

What power have you got?
Where did you get it from?
In whose interests do you use it?
To whom are you accountable?
How do we get rid of you?

There is some truth in that.