BS: Grilled cheese sandwich

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 03:18 PM

No confusion - we simply have different ways of making the outside of our sandwiches crispy and melting the cheese.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 03:19 PM

confusion of terminology... it gets worse when terms vary by region... lol

in the states, a "flat top" griddle is often called a grill... do not ask me why... and we have "toaster ovens" with toast, broil or bake settings.

one thing for sure... DO NOT microwave your wheat bread... unless you need to resole your shoes... or ran out of skeet targets.

and where do we put pannini makers or George Foreman products? 'tis a puzzlement...

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 03:35 PM

Fresh made mayonnaise, egg and oil, is good, but the store stuff is terrible.

A touch of Dijon mustard?

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 08:27 PM

Ok, listen up.

I've had some of the world's best cheeses (honorable mention to Maytag, as well as Clemson Blues!). But for a truly delicious grilled cheese, it must be American cheese. Or is that 'american'? It's a thing. But it MUST be the right brand, if you're going to judge it. Not just any waxy block.

Boar's Head isn't bad, but growing up (Sciencegeek, you might know this) it was Clearfield, v.e.r.y. thinly sliced. I am still on the hunt for a good alternative.

(Amos, cover your ears) American melts into lusciousness that is hard to describe.... Try it with a later summer tomato on toasted decent bread, slapping the cheese on to melt only slightly before adding the tomato.

And American in scrambled eggs.... nothing, nothing, NOTHING like it. And it is also NOTHING at all like Velveeta. Them's fightin' words.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 08:59 PM

American is a mild cheddar that is dyed yellow, that is why I rarely buy it any more. I would rather spend a bit more and get an aged sharp blonde cheddar. But I understand your emotional ties to certain types of cheese. We imprinted on what our mother's used when we were kids waiting for lunch. Mom bought large bricks of yellow cheddar at Safeway, we rarely had Velveta so it was kind of a treat when we did get it (but I got over that once I was old enough to read labels).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Janie
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 10:28 PM

You have that imprinting piece right, Stilly. Until I was probably 12 years old I thought the only 2 kinds of cheese were Velveeta or USDA commodity American cheese, distributed at our schools. Strips of it served occasionally in school, for snacks, and long rectangular blocks distributed to every family at the school.

For an closed face grilled cheese sandwich, I will always emotionally prefer a white bread, and a mild, creamy cheese, on the sweetish side, fixed in a skillet, with butter. Taste buds are more eclectic, but the emotions are not.

I rarely eat or fix Mac and cheese, because I don't use or buy Velveta, but Mac and Cheese just doesn't appeal otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 09:33 AM

the brand carried by Bohack - I suspect a long defunct supermarket chain- was Bordens. and yes, it was dyed yellow.. though in upstate NY you have a choice between dyed and undyed white cheddar.

and it is wonderful in a nice fluffy omelet- with the cheese oozing out. those thin dried out omelettes are not for me, so of course that is what the hubby prefers. more fool he... :)

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 09:40 AM

Omelette with cheese, a little diced up hot pepper sauteed in the skillet first, all topped with home made salsa. Mmmmm!

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 10:20 AM

Going back up the thread a bit, is selling cheese in a can peculiar to Cougar Gold, or a widespread packaging method in the US?

I've certainly never come across it in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 11:29 AM

cheese in a can??? other than junk food or restaurant supply and that is more as a dip or sauce, I've not seen that.

it's been a while since I've seen wheels of cheese, but it's usually sold in chunk, sliced or shredded and/or grated forms. Soft cheeses wrapped in foil and firm cheese in plastic wrap.

Never heard of Cougar Gold... from out west?

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 12:23 PM

At home I usually toast the bread on one side so that the inner bit is toasted before putting thin slices of cheddar and fine slices or chopped onion as the filling. Red onion for me gives it a slightly sweet taste which I quite like. I don't usually have toasted sandwiches when I am out on the basis that it is something I could do at home for the fraction of the price but thought I would try one for a treat in a Costa Coffee shop rather than spend on a cake. They do very tasty ones with a layer of toasted cheese on top which is very nice and looks appetising, one in particular has sausage, tomato and red onion which goes very well together as a filling. I have just bought a toasted sandwich maker and really happy that I can make a quick snack but I would like to experiment with sweet fillings or fruit for a change but would the sandwiches hold together as the cheese version?

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 01:15 PM

Ed- Cougar Gold is the only canned cheese I know about.
It is packed that way so it can be shipped anywhere, and will keep if refrigerated for several years. The cheese and the canning method both originated in the Food Dept. of Washington State University.
It is an expensive cheese, carefully made and aged, with superb rich sharp flavor. No coloring or additives.

Edam cheese in wheels and balls, finished off in their characteristic red waxy coating, is comparable, the wax performing much the same function, but the cheese hardens over time. The wax keeps it without spoiling for a long time, performing the same function as the can. Edam was and is a world-wide favorite because of these keeping qualities.

There are other fine cheeses with preservative coatings. Some, like the excellent French Roquefort, are wrapped in foil. I don't know about foils keeping qualities. Also used on some better Swiss cheese.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 01:24 PM

Amish here make some outstanding cheese..

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 01:33 PM

I've had several varieties of the Cougar Gold, and they are all excellent. Yes, I found the can itself a bit off-putting at first - but once you open it and get a taste of that sharp cheddar, you'll be hooked. Last time I checked a #3 can is about $18. $6 a pound for good cheese isn't a bad price. Order it in cool weather or they'll pack it with stuff for cold shipping.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 01:35 PM

Food timeline 

I dont see much about cheese in this food timeline site. But, I will share it in case anyone has a food history interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 01:40 PM

Oops, I was wrong, here is timeline information on a grilled cheese sandwich.

grilled cheese timeline 

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 01:51 PM

ED, that timeline mentions its use by Navy Cooks. The Army also served them in WW2 dining halls, but usually without the butter coating. I remember them well.
Also I remember "shit on a shingle," toast with a coating of various kinds, usu. Spam-like flakes in a gravy-like, sometimes cheesey mixture.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 02:12 PM

Thanks for the the clarification regarding Cougar Gold and canning, Q and SRS.

One thing that I don't understand though is why a canned product has to be chilled? Surely the whole point of the sterilized and airtight environment of a can is in order to negate that need?

I'm curious about the cheese and would love to try it. A quick search suggests that it isn't exported though :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 02:34 PM

There are places in the U. S. that ship cheese chilled during warm weather.

Chilling, regardless of seals, delays chemical change.
I always keep Edam (balls with the red seal) in the fridge (and any other cheese, regardless of seal).

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 03:07 PM

""One thing that I don't understand though is why a canned product has to be chilled? Surely the whole point of the sterilized and airtight environment of a can is in order to negate that need?""

Likely to prevent the growth of botulism. Unless a product is retorted (steam heated to kill all bacteria), there is a possibly of anaerobic bacterial growth. Fortunately, few products and surfaces, in food preparation, are certified sterile from a food preservation perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 03:44 PM

Ed, perhaps you need a Secret Santa this year who will ship you a cheese. In cold weather it should be okay for a while in transit. I'm not sure how one would describe the difference, cheese in a can vs canned cheese. I can't imagine that there is processing in the traditional "canned" sense or the cheese would melt to a disgusting goo (Cheez Whiz?) And clearly shipping in hot weather isn't good for it.

The food timeline is amazing. I'll spend a lot of time reading through that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 03:57 PM

Chemical change! It goes on constantly, but cold slows it down. It goes on in sealed as well as open conditions.

See your organic chem textbook.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 03:58 PM

SRS... "I can't imagine that there is processing in the traditional "canned" sense or the cheese would melt to a disgusting goo (Cheez Whiz?"

My first thought too.

Cheeses... edam up!

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 04:03 PM

I am off to Wisconsin in a month or so. Now their cheddar oh yes heaven

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 04:07 PM

couger gold 

the cheese in question-the tins seem to be a preservation method.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 04:12 PM

Much like this Cheese, most canned anchovies are not retorted, and, thus, must be storedc chilled.
Canned anchovies are not retorted 

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 04:47 PM

Thanks for that link regarding canned anchovies, Ed T.

I'm not sure if the anchovies we buy here in the UK are 'retorted' or not. What I do know is that the fillets keep their shape and don't turn to mush.

They are never kept in the 'cooler section of supermarkets', just on normal shelves.

I have a can in my cupboard that I've probably had for a year. Just had a look at it, and it doesn't suggest refrigeration on the tin, just 'keep in a dry place' It has an expiry date of Jan 2015 and I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm not sure but along with food safety, I wonder if there is some cultural thing going on here? My understanding is that in America eggs are always refrigerated in supermarkets? They never are here in England, yet we don't get food poisoning...

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 04:57 PM

Although the eggs are not refrigerated in the shop, the boxes often have instructions telling you to keep them in the fridge. Why would they be OK in the shop and not in my kitchen?
Well the fact is they are perfectly OK in my kitchen. I never put them in the fridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 05:02 PM

Anchovies are next to jello yikes ya have em

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 05:45 PM

Sometimes, refrigeration is to keep bacteria in high-protein, raw foods from growing to hazardous levels. Sometimes, it's so foods last longer. I don't know what it is with the particular cheese, but you can normally store hard and partially hard cheese at room temp, and what eventually happens is it gets hairy, can break down and oxidize (which is what causes rancidity). Soft cheese can be dangerous. If the shells aren't cracked, eggs just last longer when refrigerated.

Anchovy Jello definitely sounds weird.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 06:06 PM

I would think refrigerated eggs stay usable longer.

All of this talk of eggs and anchovies and cheese sandwiches - I'm getting hungry.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 06:08 PM

I suspect with eggs it may be a shelf life/quality issue, not food safety?
Many eggs come from huge factory farms in NA, and there could be related issues.
They are rarely refridgerated in farmers markets, with a small scale source.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 06:15 PM

Ed, if your anchivies do not say they should be refridgerated, I suspect they must be heat retorted. If they werent, and are not very high in brine content, I suspect they could present a potentially serious health issue.

Food safety folks even require salt cod must be refridgerated in super markets where I live. Years ago this product could be stored in the direct heat.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 06:16 PM

True story (which I probably already told somewhere): I did food inspection for the Air Force. Eggs had to be below 60° when delivered. For a while, we got in eggs that were above 60°, and had no choice but to reject the shipments. Checking the time the USDA inspector had inspected them, it was obvious the eggs were so fresh, they hadn't had time to chill. Eventually, we got this worked out, but there was a bit of "sheesh, this is stupid" involved for a little while.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 06:51 PM

An answer on tge eggs, not culture, salmonella on washed eggs from large egg producers.

on keeping eggs cool 

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 07:39 PM

From the Washington State University website- FAQ
"In the 1930s the Creamery became interested in different ways to store cheese. Cans seemed the best option as plastic packaging materials had not been invented and wax packaging sometimes cracked., leading to contamination.
Cougar cheeses should be stored under refrigeration....may be transported at temperatures under 70F and should be refrigerated upon arrival.
Once opened do NOT store the cheese in the can as the opened lip will rust and/or a black film will develop....
Remove cheese from the can and store in an airtight container. ...recommend cutting into smaller pieces and individually wrapping in plastic wrap.
...freezing endangers the quality. ....left out of refrigeration too long....most likely there will be a change in the texture of the cheese and moisture (whey) may be forced out of the cheese.

As long as the cheese is unopened and refrigerated it will last indefinitely. An unopened can of cheese becomes more flavorful, sharp, dry and crumbly with age.
Smoked cheese will become bitter....
"We know of customers who have stored their Cougar Gold for over 30 years."

http://creamery.wsu.edu/cougar-cheese/faqs/
(A lot more there.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 08:53 PM

What I did was use the can to store the Cougar Gold cheese - I removed it from the can, put in a layer of plastic wrap, then put the cheese back in the can. As it happens there is a standard sized Tupperware bowl lid that perfectly fits onto the can, so I used that in the fridge with the plastic extended beyond that upper rim.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 09:09 PM

"Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." 
― G.K. Chesterton

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Janie
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 09:32 PM

I ain't gonna let any of this technical talk get in the way of my enjoyment of a grilled cheese sandwich.

What to my wondering eyes should appear, in today's paper, is news that a grilled cheese and tomato soup chain will be coming to the local fair city of Carrboro. Specific location as yet undisclosed. Tom+Chee, out of Cincinnati, Ohio. What will be next? White Tower Burger joints? Cincinnati based 1-5 way Chili joints?

Southern Culture on the Skids?

Are we being haunted by Spaw?

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:57 AM

while I enjoy a nice slice of ripe tomato - beefsteak variety is preferable- the true joy of a grilled cheese sandwich is that the cheese completely melts while the bread has a crispy crunch but is still soft and chewy so that each bite is a complex blend of flavor and texture.

The tomato soup rounds out the experience by being smooth with a blend of sweetness and acidity so that you are torn between alternating from sandwich to soup, or just go whole hog and dunk your sandwich into the soup... LOL

yup... probably as close as I will ever come to a religious experience :D

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 01:09 PM

I get good results by wrapping cheese in waxed paper and keeping the wrapped block in a quart-size plastic bag. Sometimes a little mold forms, but it's easy to cut off.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Claire M
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 02:20 PM

Hiya! Love that pouring cheese. I'd rather have a cheese toastie than a normal cheese sandwich. find lots of sandwiches too dry but could quite happily live on cheese toasties; maybe w/ some dried onions. & I'd hope there weren't those horrible white bits on the ham.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 02:32 PM

you know..I don't eat bread usually but I think I will take a piece of great white bread we have in the ref at work and some tillamook pepper jack and some darigold butter and make half a one. just for the sake of scholarship. tillamook cheese is really great. i prefer it to couger gold...and their ice cream is the best chocolate i think.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 02:52 PM

Anyone here made a GCS variation out of those triangular buns at Costco? I may try, as they seem to have potential, with texture and even with shape:)

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 02:56 PM

so mg... have a small hamburger waiting in case you need it... :)

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 03:39 PM

thanks..i had my usual no carb stir fry..should say no starch..but the sandwich was great.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 03:46 PM

mg, glad you were about to find a work-around to enjoy one of life's little pleasures... :)

btw... been listening to Bob Webb's Band Troller CD driving in to work. he did such a great job on Bank Troller and the rest... when I listen I can just picture him singing once more...

and I listen without only a few tears... good idea when driving...

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: sciencegeek
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 04:16 AM

it's been a cold, wet, breezy weekend... looked at the garden and the chives are doing well...

dinner tonight... grilled cheese & tomato soup with a sprinkling of chives... that should do the trick!

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 07:21 AM

It's not too cold here yet in Northern England, but when it is..

Mind you, it'll be Heinz rather than Campbell's which Americans seem to prefer.

It'll also be a Welsh Rarebit rather than the grilled cheese sandwich, but the idea is pretty much the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Grilled cheese sandwich
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 08:44 AM

I knew you'd miss it - shit on a shingle, chicken on a raft...

It may be Safeways explains why the US has neither decent beer nor cheese, both need some bugs in the environment.