Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme

Subject: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Mysha
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:03 AM

Hi,

I'm looking at the Galway Shawl. It has these odd-numbered lines that seem to rhyme more or less, depending on the version:

- I spied a damsel, she was young and handsome
- We kept on walking, she kept on talking,
- She sat me down beside the hearthstone
- She said goodbye sir,and her eyes seemed brighter,
Maybe more in specific dialects.

I wonder whether these were unintentional or created later to match that. Or could these have been the original version, with the scheme breaking down over lines forgotten, misunderstood or not rhyming in Camford English?

Bye,
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Mysha
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:14 AM

Hi,

Ah, and:
- But she wore a bonnet with a ribbon on it

Especially if that's really supposed to be another verse - rather than a chorus - it would fit the pattern as well.

Bye,
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:31 AM

That scheme is common in mediaeval English poetry and never quite went away. The rhymes weren't always exact back then, either. I suspect it derives from the half-line breaks you get in Anglo-Saxon verse - those didn't rhyme at all.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:32 AM

and your point is ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:41 AM

Nothing unusual or surprising. They are internal rhymes (occurring within the line), and they don't need to be either exact or present every time - Internal rhyming tends to be used for emphasis, so it is the exception rather than the rule in a poem/lyric.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 02:25 PM

and your point is ?

Which part of whose message are you too thick to understand?

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 08:41 AM

What a load of cobblers - my paternal grandmother(1898 - 1973) sang this song and she got it from her mother who said she had learnt it when she ws young. The words were slightly different from the so called original 1930 collected one. There was no Father, it was her mother's cottage and she had the kettle boiling when they arrived. they then sat down and "drank a drop of the foggy dew" Now if anybody understands Irish hospitality you know that inviting strangers in to drink tea is almost a religion in itself - that's it. Oh and I think, but am not certain but usually a Galway shawl is black and worn by widows.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 08:58 AM

Internal rhyming is fairly common to many Irish Songs
Plenty of it here
Jim Carroll


The Traveller All Over the World
Come all you fellow travelling men of every rank and station
And hear this short oration which as yet remains untold
You might have been an Austrian, a German or a Bulgarian
But sit ye sios-in-aice-liom, and the truth I will unfold
You'll hear of great disunity unveiled to the community
So take this opportunity of listening to me
You'll hear of foreign nations and of youthful expectations
And of a few relations in that beauty spot Glenlea

I went to see the world's rage, being only sixteen years of age
A steerage passage I engaged on a ship called the Iron Duke
I went on board at Dublin's wall, being southward bound for the Transvaal
I had a friend from Annascaul, and one from Donnybrook
Our noble ship had scarcely steamed when in my mind sad memories gleamed
I thought of my dear neighbours and their loving company
I though about my brothers and our love for one another
And of my grey haired mother there at home in Sweet Glenlea

We landed safe but suddenly in that British spot Cape Colony
In search of manual labour I travelled near and far
I crossed the Orange River, among Hottentots and Kaffirs
And I was made Grand Master on the Isle of Zanzibar
A Dutchman high who admired me ways took me to see the Himalays
And Boys o Boys was I amazed, their awful heights to see
We wandered on through Hindustan, along the River Ganges
And though it was a grand place, still the fairest was Glenlea

This Dutchman suffered health's decline, he heard of cures in Palestine
Persuaded me with him combine and along with him to go
We landed safe at Jaffa and we journeyed to Jerusalem
Thee ancient city of Hebron and the ruins of Jericho
The surrounding mountains highest peaks, just like McGillicuddy's Reeks
And from their summit you could see the Lake of Gallilee
Likewise the River Jordan and the province of Samaria
But though it sounds contrary - the fairest was Glenlea

These doleful times soon drifted by till this faithful Dutchman friend and I
Were for
I stood forlorn upon the quay as the ship that bore him sailed away
His memory in my mind will stay till life's long days are o'er
Still Providence had willed its way and therefore conscience must obey
I went on board and sailed away when my friend did me forsake
But often meditation made me turn for recreation
And go home in contemplation to that beauty spot Glenlea

In Palestine I made some coin, I heard of San Francisco's mine
For to invest me capital I thought a good idee
I landed safe in Frisco when the trees were blooming beautiful
It was on that same evening that there was a great earthquake
I was in my bed and sleeping sound, I woke to find things moving round
But after that I heard no sound, no pain affected me
And on the following morning when IÕd recovered consciousness
I wrote of all the consequence to my home in sweet Glenlea

I told them in the letter how I lost the situation
It was my earthly station and I wanted to go home
And I hoped their generosity would aid my transportation
And I went o
I got the cash to pay my way without disaster or delay
And landed safe at Queenstown Quay, on board the Chimpanzee
And after an excursion of some five long hours duration
I reached the little station on the road to sweet Glenlea

As we approached the terminus I viewed with consternation
The awful congregation there assembled in the rain
And I hoped some other personage of worldly estimation
To heed their expectation was coming on by train
As I scanned each individual's face, friends and neighbours, old time mates
Assembled in their hundreds with a welcome home for me
Oh they shouted with elation and they shook with great vibration
The surrounding elevation on the road to sweet Glenlea

And now I live contentedly among these friends and neighbours
Endowed with all the favours of good fortune and delight
And I've found among the multitude a charming little creature
She's full of admiration, she's my lovely Irish wife
And when we meet at Sunday's noon, at that cozy spot called top-of-Coom
Where songs and storie
Among that grand old company of lovely friends and neighbours
We're never tired of praising that beauty spot Glenlea.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 10:10 AM

Hello, Mysha. I don't know where your lines came from, but they seem to start in the middle of a verse. Here are the same lines from the DT, typed to show the internal rhyme (or near rhyme):

At Orenmore in the County Galway,
One pleasant evening in the month of May,
I spied a damsel,
she was young and handsome
Her beauty fairly took my breath away.

Cho: She wore no jewels, nor costly diamonds,
No paint or powder, no, none at all.
But she wore a bonnet
with a ribbon on it
And round her shoulder was a Galway Shawl.
============
The overall rhyme scheme sure changes a lot in the course of the song.

Thanks for the explanation about the meaning of a Galway shawl.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 11:27 AM

Actually the last two lines you quote I've never heard of and I'd class myself as an authority on Irish ballads. Being a bit of a poet too I've long used this form of rhyming

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 12:31 PM

But she wore a bonnet
with a ribbon on it
And round her shoulder was a Galway Shawl.

Actually the last two lines you quote I've never heard of

That's the way I've always heard it sung here in Scotland.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 01:15 PM

There's an interesting variant in Sam Henry's Songs of the People, if I remember rightly. I'll check it out.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Mysha
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 01:25 PM

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who posted relevant bits of information, and to those who posted further questions, which I'll now try to answer.

Dave, my point was that I wanted to know whether we were looking at a severely broken down version of a song, where it would be necessary to add new bits to recreate the old feel.

Woodsie, I know versions differ; in fact above I quote from several versions. If you recall (part of) the lyrics as your grandmother sung them, please, feel free to post them.

leeneia, the rhymes came from different versions; they don't form a verse. (Hence the dashes at the start of each line that were supposed to make each a separate entry, but English punctuation may be different.) If the Mudcat opinion had been that this rhyme ought to have been present everywhere, then the rhymes would have been an indication of possible original wording, to be gathered from various versions to get closer to the original.

Desi, I'm sorry: I don't have an exact version for you. I just noticed a lot of variation in this song, and sort of collected some lyrics together as possible wordings. The Internet search engines are probably your friends in retrieving their origins.

Jack, likewise, if you have a version that we don't have, feel free to add them here.


All the answers together did give me an alternative structure to think about, though:
Four of those are in the third line, and in one version the "Come in" line looks like it may have been such a scheme in the past as well. That would make the scheme more as Leeneia shows it: A,A,B/2,B/2,A. Whether it really was, I don't know, of course: Let's see what other versions say.

Bye
                                                                                                                               Mysha

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 02:50 PM

My apologies for being rude Mysha.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 07:18 PM

"leeneia, the rhymes came from different versions; they don't form a verse"

Oh. Okay then.

It's an interesting little song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Galway Shawl rhyming scheme
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jun 20 - 10:46 PM

Somebody sang this to the tune of Carrickfergus this evening. Is that a common combination?