Patriotism

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 02:35 AM

Let's stop the running battle across threads, folks. The personal insults and mud slinging are what drive people away. Didn't your mothers ever tell you that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all?

SRS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 02:15 AM

Goofballupagus doesn't have a clue!

"Who is John Galt?"

If you sort out the verbiage, John Galt (the hero of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, along with his small coterie of disciples) is no less than Nietzsche's Übermensch, the Superman that Adolf Hitler had in mind when he first made his move into politics in Germany and became Chancellor in 1933. And we know well THAT worked out!

The similarities between the views of Ayn Rand and her cast of "heroes" and Nietzche and his hypothetical "Superman" are just too clear to be missed by anyone paying attention.

Ayn Rand is very much the darling of the Libertarian Party (note: not Liberal Party). In fact, the Libertarian Party was initially formed by a group of people who had attended the twenty lecture series of lectures by Nathaniel Brandon on the "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand."

Along with this, she is pretty much the patron saint of the Tea Party.

Her ideas could become the working plan for this country's future!

That's where we're going if we are not damned careful! Germany—in fact, Europe in general, along with the U. S.—had a few problems with advocates of ideas like those in the Thirties and early Forties….

Here it is in a nutshell:    Clicky.

Note the final sentence: "Unregulated capitalism is a superlatively moral system."

Oh?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 01:50 AM

Stilly River Sage: "No, not when you throw shit against the wall to see who salutes, Gust. Mixed metaphors are here simply to illustrate your brand of discourse. Slippery and inconclusive, always good for an argument.
Bill Summary & Status, 109th Congress (2005 - 2006) H.R.3199(Which is a link)..............

However, Joe Biden introduced this, which is the core of the 'Patriot Act"


Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995


Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, US Senate bills S.390 and S.761.[1] Senator Joe Biden introduced the bill on behalf of the Clinton Administration on Feb. 10, 1995.[2][3] The bill was co sponsored by Senators Alfonse D'Amato, Dianne Feinstein, Robert J. Kerrey, Herb Kohl, Jon Kyl, Barbara A. Mikulski and Arlen Specter.[4] Representative Chuck Schumer sponsored the bill (H.R. 896) in the US House of Representatives.[3] Following closely on the heels of Executive Order 12947, prohibiting transactions with terrorists, President Clinton described the bill as a "comprehensive effort to strengthen the ability of the United States to deter terrorist acts and punish those who aid or abet any international terrorist activity in the United States" and requested "the prompt and favorable consideration of this legislative proposal by the Congress".[5]


It contained the following seven provisions:[6]

Title I: Substantive Criminal Law Enhancements

Title II: Immigration Law Improvements

Title III: Controls Over Terrorist Fund-Raising

Title IV: Convention on the Marking of Plastic Explosives

Title V: Nuclear Materials

Title VI: Procedural and Technical Corrections and Improvements

Title VII: Antiterrorism Assistance

According to the summary by President Clinton, the bill was intended to establish federal criminal jurisdiction over acts of international terrorism.[5] Civil liberty advocacy groups opposed the bill on the grounds that it would violate fundamental civil liberties, including the right to confront one's accuser.[3] Another source of opposition was the Government's ability to use evidence from secret sources in deportation proceedings for suspected terrorists.[3] During the debate over the Patriot Act of 2001 then Senator Joe Biden compared this bill to its 2001 counterpart stating "I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing. And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill."[7]

Nice try, Stilly!

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 12:03 AM

Well, Don..after reading your post, it would seem that the bankers are more of a problem than Ayn Rand...As stipulated by the Banking Act of 1935, the President appoints the seven members of the Board of Governors; they must then be confirmed by the Senate and serve for 14 years, and those guys are voted upon....one to be confirmed

So who is serving who? The bankers PRIMARY concern is their banks..Oh yeah, I didn't want it to slip by that the Federal Reserve is NOT a federal entity....it is a consortium, made up from private bankers ...and don't you think that the federal government has to cater to the Fed's policies, who, after all, control the money supply???..and what do they do??... they 'print'(or digitize) more fiat money, while an out of control spending spree has bankrupt the country...and, of course, the Fed CHARGES interest for their 'services' of printing all that fiat (read: worthless, unsecured) money.
So who's hustling who?...and then you want to blame Ayn Rand's novels????.....She's been dead and gone for a long time.

Oh well...

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 08:17 PM

Yeah, well, your one and only other contribution to the thread apart from this was virtually incomprehensible. You have three choices: (a) contribute; (b) whinge; (c) don't read it. Nighty night.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,sawzaw
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 07:44 PM

I see no discussion here as in a forum. All i see is personal putdowns like a bunch of highschool kids trying to get one up oneach other.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 03:27 PM

Fucking hell, 51% of our village tried to get in the church last Sunday! Thanks for the heads up Keith! More room at the bar for the rest of us. Still, it would make s change from the 20 or so out of 9,000 or so that really turn up. Mrs Musket said the other week that with some visitors ringing, there were more people in the ringing chamber than the pews that week.

Do you really think the majority of people in The UK are insecure and believe in fairies?

Poor deluded sod. Not even The Archbishop of Canterbury is that delusional.

Considering we have state education and a high educational attainment, added to the fact there is no such thing as God, do you really think the majority are as thick as you?

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 03:11 PM

Goofball, if you don't think that Ayn Rand wields a hell of a lot of influence in politics today, you just haven't been paying attention.

In addition to her fiction (The Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged, and an early first novel, We, the Living) she wrote a lot of non-fiction, such as The Virtue of Selfishness and Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal, not to mention the lecture series her disciples, Nathaniel and Barbara Brandon delivered all over the country--and a magazine called "The Objectivist Newsletter" that was published for many years and may still be out there.

At least one national politician I know of insists that his staff read her works, and rumor has it that Rand Paul was named after her.

Ronald Reagan was powerfully influenced by the writings of Ayn Rand and that explains many of his policies, such as trying to privatize Social Security—and appointing Alan Greenspan as the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank. Alan Greenspan was a member of Ayn Rand's inner circle, which included the Brandons and a number of other prominent people, many of them politicians or who became politicians.

I am sufficiently acquainted with the influence Ayn Rand's writings have had on the current political climate to be apprehensive--and very alert.

You've just given more evidence of how totally clueless you really are.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 02:28 PM

So you get your stuff from non-fictional novels, eh?

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guerst from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 02:13 PM

No Don, unlike you, some people have sources that didn't come from fictional novels!

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 01:47 PM

There is nothing about living in a socialist country that prevents a person from being exceptional. Unless by "exceptional" you mean wealthy enough to exert undue influence on the government for your own advantage.

Sawzaw, that question smacks of Ayn Rand. Is that where you're coming from?

Gwynplaine

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,sawzaw
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 07:53 AM

The ultimate socialized country in the world is ???
Where is there is no excetionalism?
Would you like to live there?

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw puzzled
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 07:48 AM

Huh? I don't recall Bill Shankly ever saying anything like that....

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 07:09 AM

A can't put my finger on the exact wording- but, I seem to recall that *God did say " be kind to others on the internet" .

(*note, I am not really sure which historic god it was)

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 05:53 AM

Musket: ""Woof! Woof! Grrrrrr. Woof!"*

* (Translation notes for everybody else.). A vet took my nuts away but that doesn't stop me trying to lick them. I think you will find in that everything you ever need to know about religion.""


I'm sure you fully understand.


GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 05:49 AM

Musket, I have showed you the survey results to back up my stating the FACT that atheists are still a minority in Europe.
As ever, you just make baseless, unsupported assertions and demand to be believed, insulting anyone who questions you.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 05:41 AM

Any chance of altering the word "first" to something more hopeful?

In he meantime, allow me.. No. Allow my dog, the good professor to explain religion to Goofus in a way he might understand.

"Woof! Woof! Grrrrrr. Woof!"*






* (Translation notes for everybody else.). A vet took my nuts away but that doesn't stop me trying to lick them. I think you will find in that everything you ever need to know about religion.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw, convert
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 05:07 AM

Thus endeth Guffers' first epistle to the Catters....

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 04:59 AM

Donald Guest...or Duck...or Firth: "If you really believe that, Guest from Sanity, then why do you spew so much hatred and contempt for others?"

Others??....Odd, that you only perceive 'hatred and contempt'...must be foremost in your head.....Oh, to answer your question..

Because, such rhetorically political correct niceties, don't seem to penetrate the thick skulls of those bent on living under a pile of politically programmed pig-shit...and do so, by deception, to cause divisions among the people, and do it for people who are bold-face lying to them....TOO!!!

....instead of me digging through your dome of pig-shit, why don't you just dig your own way out!.....(It's stink and messy)..I was just pointing the direction to some good clean fresh air, and pointing the way....

Good Luck...

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 02:58 AM

Don't get the poor simple bugger confused between belief and understanding....

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 08:50 PM

If you really believe that, Guest from Sanity, then why do you spew so much hatred and contempt for others?

Gwynplaine

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 06:35 PM

Musket the Silly: "You'll be telling us Jesus existed next"...

1 John 4:12..."No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."

John 13:35
"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Not sure about any other of those 'religion's' criteria...nor what those who say there is no God mean!

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:50 AM

Ah, then there is the good ol' gawdfearin' murrca!

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 08:17 AM

""You'll be telling us Jesus existed next ""

And, then trying to persuade us what BC really was intended to mean.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:38 AM

No they are not Prat.

A couple of dozen people attend church out of a town of ten thousand on average. People are classified Christian based on being used to putting CofE on forms asking for it. Church of England claims numbers based on christenings.

Hardly anybody believes in magic these days. Churches lie and twist statistics according to The Archbishop of Canterbury, who wants, quite understandably, to count real numbers not extrapolations of weird assumptions. According to a vicar relative, I'm classed as Christian in some figures.

Most surveys show less than 1% of the population attend services for other than traditional events such as weddings etc.

You'll be telling us Jesus existed next 😹😹

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 06:57 AM

"The vast majority if you live in Europe."

If you mean atheists, they are still a minority.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 05:08 AM

And, now for something completely different BS powered cell phones. Plenty of fuel on here:)


Some completely different BS 

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 03:49 AM

Says Akenaton, possibly the most vile twisted apology for a human being ever to haunt these pages.

Homophobic, misogynist and illiterate all wrapped in one sorry package.

My mythology eh? Would that be the mythology that gay people shouldn't have to register and be subjected to invasive medical procedures against their will? That the marriage between two men or two women is as valid and loving as yours or mine? Could it be that I appear to be under the impression gay people in a loving relationship don't have "multiple partners.?"

Akenaton is a name he gives himself on the basis he cannot spell Akhenaton. Bigotry is a trait he exhibits on the basis he thinks the only people offended by it aren't of interest.

Goofus and he make a nice couple really.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 03:47 AM

""The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."" - Captain Jack Sparrow,  Pirates Of The Caribbean

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 11:33 PM

I guess when you are as brain-locked, as you appear to be, I don't think you'd recognize 'substance' if it hit you on the head, in broad daylight!

Happy now?

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 10:07 PM

Hi Don.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 09:41 PM

Akhenaton, I have lurked on these threads long enough to know quite a bit about a lot of people. Including YOU.

Guest from Sanity has yet to post anything of substance, and he, she, or it dishes out nothing but insults and abuse. And gross misinformation on just about any subject. All one need do is read, (attempt to make sense out of), what he, she, or it posts.

Were it not so pathetic, it would be ample reason for my laughter.

Gwynplaine (The Man who Laughs)

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:21 PM

""Only fools want to travel all the time. Sensible men want to arrive"".
Metternick

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 07:28 PM

Mystery afraid to post a name, Guest: "Guest from Sanity, do you always have to be an insulting smartass or is that just your nature? Accident of birth? Or did you convert to being a swine?"

Are you so stupid that you haven't noticed that what Akenaton just posted is true?????

..I guest the bullshit that gets flung around here, in the name of 'intelligence' brings it out.

Perhaps you should find some railroad tracks to walk along, till they end.

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 07:16 PM

You obviously don't get around here much Guest.
GfS has been subjected to a stream of insults from a gang of trolls who have entertained us under the communal name of "Musket", for years.

Sanity only returns what is served to him.

The "Muskets" specialise in personal abuse, they have no time for reason or debate....read this thread and others to see their M.O.
Anyone who contradicts their mythology is immediately attacked.
Witness the obscenities aimed at Teribus and Keith on this thread.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 06:45 PM

One may adopt or convert to a particular religion later in life. But by the same token, a person can emigrate to another country and feel strongly patriotic toward the new, adopted country.

But for the vast majority of people, patriotism and religion ARE accidents of birth.

Guest from Sanity, do you always have to be an insulting smartass or is that just your nature? Accident of birth? Or did you convert to being a swine?

Gwynplaine (The Man who Laughs)

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 06:31 PM

More fool them.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 05:55 PM

Muskbutt, You forgot to mention those who have found their 'religion' later in life, and 'converted' to something that they were not 'born into'......even, perhaps a 'spiritual revelation', that was NOT influenced by the religion of the family that they were born into.

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 12:15 PM

Says me for starters Goofus. Some of us were born to rational parents, some to superstitious parents. Some born in areas where one religion forms the general superstition, some with others.

If you were born in Afghanistan you stand a good chance of Islam being the true path. If you were born in Dumbfuckistan, Christianity is the usual true path.

But some people in either place can be raised to be rational.

The vast majority if you live in Europe.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 10:44 AM

"Omissions are not accidents."     
 Marianne Craig Moore

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 10:28 AM

You got your 'religion' by accident..at birth?????????????????

Says who???

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 06:08 AM

Bit like being "patriotic" to your religion, forgetting that you only got your religion by sheer accident of birth. Spot the difference.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 12:49 AM

ollaimh : "I hasgen to pint out that...."

Make mine a double!

GfS

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 10:56 PM

I hasgen to pint out that although many American here are pro world government, the united states remains independent and defiant of the world court and international law in general. this is of course an extension of the long anglo laissez faire capilatist military enterprise that started with monetizing slavery as long as possible, and with multiple genocides in Ireland(and in many imperial conquests), and has come to the American version of this laissez faire capitalism, now monetizing water, and farmers seeds, and eventually all the neccesities of life.

great job for the patriots and nationalists.the well armed partiots and nationalists

this in no way denigrates the struggle of national groups against foreign oppression, but as a rule patriotism and nationalism are a great evil.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 11:19 AM

""people are patriots in their own way. and it may not be yours.""

And, unfortunately, even those who are seen by many as truly "evil" people throughout history and conflicts.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 11:07 AM

well you have to allow that some people, by their definition patriots. may be on the other side of the barricade to you.

people are patriots in their own way. and it may not be yours.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 07:50 AM

Just hang onto that lovely thought about The Owls

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw, quasi-patriot of several nations
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 06:55 AM

What does "I love my country" actually mean? My country consists of the north Cornwall coast, Jimmy Savile, the Lake District, Thatcher's legacy, Devon glorious Devon, Nigel Farage, Doom Bar, the BNP, the Yorkshire Dales, the Owls, Liverpool FC, Michael Gove, the Beeb, Keith A. and cricket. My two favourite places to go, Spain and Italy, are basket cases. Bloody Nora. I don't know what to think.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 06:14 AM

On a slightly more serious note, I look at it this way.

If I wished people to allow themselves to be shafted by government, the first thing I would do is make them feel a sense of gratitude to their country. It makes ordering them around much easier.

I would give this phenomenon a name.

Patriotism.

Subject: RE: Patriotism
From: Musket
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 05:02 AM

The only problem with that is where to put the boundaries.

I love The UK? I love England? I love my county? I love my town or village? I love my street? I love my home? I love my bedroom? I love to bonk?

Thats the problem with love. At the end of the day, it's all about shagging.