BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas

Subject: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 15 - 02:20 AM

Now I've heard everything. Evidently the Texas governor is/has calling out the Texas State Guard to monitor the Navy Seals/Green Berets training exercises on the premise that President Obama is planning an invasion and takeover of the state.

Is He Serious??

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 15 - 04:00 AM

It's Best To Be Safe

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 May 15 - 04:05 AM

Given the number of civil wars the US has fomented in other parts of the world, payback time where they get one of their own is long overdue.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 May 15 - 05:17 AM

"It's Best To Be Safe"
Purporting to show Obama as an Islamist, from an Islamophobic publication edited by Christian fundamentalist David Kupelian, who is at odds with other Christian fundamentalist groups, who claim he is not a Christian.
The world would be a safer place if these religious sects would take their infighting elsewhere.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 May 15 - 05:43 AM

I'm amazed that lunatics are allowed to be elected to public office in the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 15 - 08:08 AM

"It's a classic false flag operation."

That sentence from the article was constructed by an amateur.

1) A false flag op is one designed to bring about a specific outcome while allowing the people perpetrating the op a number of fall-back excuses so they come out of it clean after the op has succeeded or failed. An example from history was the use of German troops dressed as Polish troops who entered Poland and attacked Germany, thus helping bring about the commencement of hostilities between Germany and Poland in WWII. There is nothing 'classic' about the situation in Texas.

2) There is nothing 'classic' about the scenario proposed by the article writer. (It is also second-rate English, much as is the expression 'a prime example'.)

3) JSOC (Joint Special Operations Command) has a combined troop strength of about 25,000. I don't think that's sufficient strength to take a state the size or population of Texas. Besides, Texans have lots of guns. (No, unorganized civilians have no chance against trained troops such as those in JSOC, but many of those civilians have had military training and still know how to shoot. Even at losses of 20 Texans to one spec op trooper, the numbers don't play out too well for the spec ops people.)

4) The world is too much with us. To take Texas, the internet and cell phone service would have to be shut down. Is that possible? Yes. However, loss of communications would simply signal that something bad is happening and thus people would be forewarned.

5) The worst thing that ever happened to the USA was the election of George W Bush to the White House. Americans allowed Corporations to consolidate power and influence with which they directed national policy. What rammed that through was a real false flag operation collectively called 9/11. It was beautifully done and people are still arguing about it. America sold its freedom for security with the National Defense Authorization Act. The NDAA also allows for the suspension of habeas corpus, a fundamental cornerstone of any free country that prides itself on 'the rule of law'. It allows for a change in those laws at the whim of one person.

6) Special warfare troops are just very highly trained troops, they are not invincible. They are not only trained to infiltrate and fight, but they are also trained to think. Most of those troops are prepared to die for the US

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 15 - 08:30 AM

to continue . . .

I think anyone would be hard-pressed to convince troops of their caliber that killing fellow Americans is a good thing to do.

7) Smedley Butler said, "War is a racket." He was right. Alanofsky Davidson Williamsburg said, "Republicans are idiots." He was right, too. (Don't bother Googling that last name. I made it up.)

That said, I think people believe too much crap that's kicking around the internet. There's no point to hanging up one's brains with one's hat and coat. The Governor of Texas is a tad paranoid. IMO and YMMV

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Teribus
Date: 03 May 15 - 09:19 AM

Isn't this a bit of a contradiction:

"5) .......What rammed that through was a real false flag operation collectively called 9/11."

"6) Special warfare troops are just very highly trained troops, they are not invincible. They are not only trained to infiltrate and fight, but they are also trained to think. Most of those troops are prepared to die for the US I think anyone would be hard-pressed to convince troops of their caliber that killing fellow Americans is a good thing to do."

For 9/11 to have been a "False Flag" Operation as you suggest there would have had to have been thousands, if not tens of thousands, of loyal US servicemen and women and public servants who must have all agreed with the decision that "killing fellow Americans is a good thing to do.". Then having seen the results of their handiwork over the course of nearly 14 years not one single perpetrator's conscience has troubled them in keeping their terrible secret - I find that rather amazing and to put it bluntly totally unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Thompson
Date: 03 May 15 - 10:01 AM

Why on earth would you invade the US by starting in Texas?

Unless, of course, you're René-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle, and you're invading in 1686. Though, no, the United States were just a gleam in their forefathers' forefathers' eye at that stage.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 15 - 11:41 AM

This, I think, is the nub of it: "Your letter pandering to idiots ... has left me livid," former State Rep. Todd Smith wrote Gov. Abbott. "I am horrified that I have to choose between the possibility that my Governor actually believes this stuff and the possibility that my Governor doesn't have the backbone to stand up to those who do."

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 15 - 11:53 AM

From: "I'm amazed that lunatics are allowed to be elected to public office in the U.S."


Amazed??...Why??....We have the highest paid politicians money can buy!!!

Elected?? These guys are bought and paid for, even before they hit the primaries!

Check it out yourselves!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:16 PM

Texas politics has been batshit crazy for years. Too many people can be convinced to vote against their own best self interest - that of a civil government that serves the people, not the gas and oil industry. The urban areas are beginning to shift the tide and as long as the state treats immigrants so poorly, once they get some kind of legal status or amnesty, some of these idiots will be booted out of office.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:17 PM

"Killing fellow Americans is a good thing to do"

Oklahoma may have a collective view on that....

Anyway, back to the general jist.

It amuses me that many of the American contributors to Mudcat moan that British contributors are argumentative and disrespectful to each other. There again, we don't tolerate and encourage bigotry in the same way, we don't settle arguments with guns and we don't indulge in judicial murder.

Poor Obama. A true American in every way, from dodgy Illinois politics to proving that if you want to, you can. Having to put up with religious shit from shits.

No wonder The UK has been dismissing religion as weird over the last seventy years.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 May 15 - 01:18 PM

"...American contributors to Mudcat moan that British contributors are argumentative and disrespectful to each other".

Ah, but Musket, don't you see the difference? Even on this thread- had it been started by a "British contributor", chances are quite good that by this time in the conversation one or more or three of you would already have jumped on the OP. Instead it truly does not occur to us "American contributors" to attack each other.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 03 May 15 - 07:21 PM

If you are right, there's no need for you to carry guns, have your police liquidate innocent men for being black or execute people for being poor


And black.



God bless America

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 May 15 - 10:22 PM

"...we don't tolerate and encourage bigotry in the same way, we don't settle arguments with guns and we don't indulge in judicial murder."

Really? History, even fairly recent history, says otherwise. I guess the Brits just let the paras do the dirty work.

As for carrying guns, I could but I, like everyone else I know, don't. Why should I? A phone call will get me more armaments that I could carry. Besides, I really don't want to.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 03 May 15 - 10:28 PM

Please don't judge all Brits based on the above post. All countries have small insignificant islands.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 May 15 - 10:58 PM

I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 04 May 15 - 02:37 AM

I do though. Those who rush to stereotype tend to be the ones who fail to see the irony when you take the piss....

1.0

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 15 - 08:11 AM

I'm amazed that lunatics are allowed to be elected to public office in the U.S.

To hell with the Governor of Texas. Have you looked at the list of Republican candidates for President?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:53 AM

If you don't lock 'em up they'll run for office.

The problem is, these people (like most people) hang out and talk with those who believe as they do. This reinforces their convictions and assures them that everyone agrees with their paranoia and delusions.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 15 - 11:59 AM

Texas has oil. It's a wonder we didn't invade sooner.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 May 15 - 12:05 PM

Musket, et al, I was referring specifically to contributors to Mudcat threads. That means people with common interests. Take a bunch of Americans at random and poll them on controversial subjects and I am quite sure that a wide range of opinions and responses would be found, ranging from the disinterested and the pragmatic, to those who advocate outright violence.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 15 - 01:19 PM

THERE IS NO CREDIBLE "MUSLIM" THREAT WHATSOEVER, FARKWIT!!!

---

The earlier Troll post was removed, but this response sentiment speaks for itself. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 May 15 - 03:13 PM

But when the President fails to take over Texas, the conspiracists will say that the plot becoming known forced the administration to postpone martial law plans.

See? They saved the country. For now, they add, darkly.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 May 15 - 04:33 PM

Any Navy Seals or Green Berets that were given orders to imprison or kill American civilians would shoot the officer that gave them such an order. Don't people know that?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 04 May 15 - 04:45 PM

Yeah, they keep their "friendly fire" for coalition partner forces...

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:15 PM

Lunacy is an entertaining study, I suppose, and food for endless debate because it is so riddled with the incomprehensible. But why has no-one ever found out how to cure it? Sheeshe!

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:16 PM

Sorry--that was I, at 5:15PM

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:51 PM

Hell - half the Green Berets and Seals are probably from Texas anyway. And they are supposed to overthrow their own state? Ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 15 - 06:02 PM

There was some real ISIS related Texas news.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 May 15 - 06:13 PM

No, it is not ISIS related news. It is 2 nuts from Arizona. That is all that is known so far.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: michaelr
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:15 PM

"Any Navy Seals or Green Berets that were given orders to imprison or kill American civilians would shoot the officer that gave them such an order. Don't people know that?"

I don't know that. Do you?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:32 PM

If somebody started drawing insulting cartoons about Jesus, I'm sure there are plenty of people (some Texans especially!) who would be mad enough to rip that somebody's head off.

If you deliberately insult someone else's religious icon, you can damned well expect some followers of that religion to object to the point of wreaking violence.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:38 PM

Michael - Ever lived in Texas?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 May 15 - 10:44 PM

I predict that the officer (a traffic officer, I think they said) stood as the two opened up with assault weapons and killed each of them with his service revolver.

That's a remarkable story in it self, and I'm sure the man (?) is now meeting with his attorney to discuss all of the offers and gifts and honorariums and the movie deal . . . that's what happens with a heroic story like this.

http://keranews.org/post/officials-offer-update-deadly-garland-shooting

The updates indicate that a couple of guys who are hard core in their religion were going to get even by shooting up the convention of some who are very relaxed about what is sacrosanct and were there to participate in the cartoon convention.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 May 15 - 10:53 PM

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Uniform Code of Military Justice, sections as noted:

809. ART. 90. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER.
Any person subject to this chapter who--
(1) strikes his superior commissioned officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him while he is in the execution of his officer; or
(2) willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer;
shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.
891. ART. 91. INSUBORDINATE CONDUCT TOWARD WARRANT OFFICER, NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER, OR PETTY OFFICER
Any warrant officer or enlisted member who--
(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer; or
(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer while that officer is in the execution of his office;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION
Any person subject to this chapter who--
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

FindLaw.org, on lawful orders:

Of all of these requirements, "lawfulness" is the most difficult, and the most important, to figure out. An order is "lawful" when it does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution or its laws, other military or admiralty laws, or international treaties binding on the U.S. Also, a lawful order is one which doesn't interfere with an individual's constitutional rights. All orders are presumed to be lawful (except patently unlawful orders, such as deliberately killing innocent civilians), and any service member that refuses to obey an order may be properly court-martialed.

However, if an order is unlawful, the service member who receives the order has a duty first to seek clarification of the order and, if still unlawful, to disobey it. A commander who issues an unlawful order is essentially ordering his subordinate to commit a crime, and the subordinate who obeys the unlawful order is just as guilty of the crime as the commander. That's the reason why the defense that soldiers "were just following orders" when they committed war crimes almost always fails.

However, this can be an ambiguous area for service members because whether an order is lawful is ultimately a question of law to be decided by a judge well after the fact. Also, a service member doesn't disobey an order by merely indicating an intention to do so. Instead, an order is disobeyed when the subordinate fails to perform the action described in the order.

In short, no, the orders wouldn't be obeyed.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 15 - 04:58 AM

Gee wizz, that US private had better be a pretty damned good constitutional lawyer.   Maybe even a judge in SCOTUS.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:04 AM

FWIW, ISIS have claimed responsibility for the gun attack.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Teribus
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:12 AM

Bridge as part of your training in the armed forces you are taught very carefully on the subject of obeying orders and what constitutes a legal order and what constitutes an illegal order. In my own time in HM Forces on two occasions I refused to carry out orders that I considered to be illegal at the time, subsequent investigation into both cases proved that I was correct in acting as I did.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:49 AM

ISIS may have claimed responsibility,it would suit their agenda,the American investigators are still investigating the incident.
America has enough of its own extremists and head cases with out the help of ISIS.
If they (ISIS) are behind the incident, I don't think the authorities would hesitate to say so.
Let's wait and see

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:18 AM

Opportunistic, that's all. And I wonder how many of the various attacks are actually 'suicide by cop'. Were I in ISIS I would chose the already depressed and suicidal for such missions.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:36 AM

ISIS claim responsibility and the response of our resident wannabe soldier fool just shows why they feel opportunistic claims are as good as real ones..
zzzzzzzz.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 15 - 10:35 AM

Someone who said they were from ISIS claimed responsibility - and if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. This is like Larry and Curly left on a terrorist attack without Moe. So poorly conceived and fatally flawed in execution as to make the planner a laughingstock.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 11:29 AM

The news agencies thought it worth reporting the ISIS claim, but I gave it as FWIW.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:22 PM

And this just in from the Texas Tribune:


The state Senate on Thursday gave the green light to a proposal to designate one weekend a year when Texas shoppers would not have to pay sales tax on guns.

Senate Bill 228 by Sen. Brandon Creighton, R-Conroe, would create a sales tax holiday for firearms, ammunition and hunting supplies during the last weekend in August. Texas already has tax holidays for two other kinds of products: school supplies and energy-efficient appliances.

The proposed tax break — which Creighton calls a Second Amendment tax holiday weekend — would come one week ahead of hunting season and one week before a similar weekend in Louisiana. Texas would lose $3.6 million per year in tax revenue under the proposed legislation, according to an estimate from the Legislative Budget Board.

"Since 2009, retailers in east and southeast Texas have been at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to their Louisiana counterparts," Creighton said in a statement. "Providing this sales tax break prior to the start of hunting season will be an economic driver for small businesses and will provide our hunters much deserved savings."

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:27 PM

If you havn't seen it yet here is a link to:


Greg Abbotts letter to the Texas National Guard

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 May 15 - 02:37 PM

The news agencies thought it worth reporting the ISIS claim

The "News"[sic] agencies also think it worth reporting on two-headed calves, babies concieved by aliens and that Marco Rubio has a brain.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 04:07 PM

I referred to BBC, ITV, Guardian and CNN.
They and other reputable sources all say that ISIS has broadcast the claim.
Do you really think it is phoney, like two-headed calves and babies conceived by aliens Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:40 PM

Just because your sources repeated it doesn't make it rational, Keith. They simply repeated it. Over here in Texas the claim has been met with skepticism and scrutiny.

SRS