BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 05:48 AM

"You offer your vision but you govern on behalf of all. "
As should all Governments in a democracy - nothing new there Muskie.
It is the vision that is important - not the act of getting elected, which has become meaningless to the electorate as things stand.
Unless you can persuade people to vote on genuine policies and not on vacuous promises that are never fulfilled, parliamentary 'democracy' will continue to earn its inverted commas.
I often wonder how many people who fling about 'armchair socialist' have ever participated in genuine, long-term political activity - it's a term that has become as insultingly meaningless to politics as has 'purist' and 'finger-in-ear' to folk song.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 06:51 AM

" Unless you can persuade people to vote on genuine policies and not on vacuous promises that are never fulfilled, parliamentary 'democracy' will continue to earn its inverted commas"

I'm with you there Jim.........The oft quoted slogan(by TM) "Prosperity through equality", is one of the most vacuous and misleading, that I have ever encountered, given the methodology of the capitalist system.

Although an SNP member, I dislike their blatant sloganizing, aimed at capturing the votes of the young and impressionable inhabitants of facebook.

In reality there are many more important issues to address than H "M".

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 08:49 AM

The Jewish Chronicle Online has some questions for Jeremy Corbyn: The JC.com

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 09:34 AM

The Palestinian Problem is an open sore which has been allowed to fester for over half a century, chiefly by Western nations, for purely political reasons.

The whole idea of a homeland for Jews was ill thought out and did not take into account the various races and tribes affected, but we are where we are and there is right on both sides.
Israel must have the right to protect its integrity and the Palestinians need to be compensated for the years of incarceration and ill treatment....the guilty people are those who cynically used a bad situation in their own interests.....on both sides, the Palestinian leaders have been just as self serving as the successive presidents of the US and Prime Ministers of the UK.

If Jeremy is taking the simplistic view on this issue then he is wrong.....but that should not stop socialist voting for him in this leadership election. I dislike some policies of the SNP, like remaining in the EU, but that does not stop me voting for them to secure the wider agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 10:00 AM

I suspect the Jewish Chronicle no more speaks for the British Jew than the Daily Mail, or the Guardian, or the Telegraph or the Sun speaks for other Britons. A section, certainly, and maybe even a substantial one but that's all.

I happen to be Catholic, but please don't assume the newpapers in the back of the Church represent my views!

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 01:09 PM

McGrath makes a crucial point: Corbyn will be arguing for his policies within a Labour Party that is much more democratic than it has been in years. He is disposed to listen, more so than any leading politician in recent times. He has not delivered a Burnham-style top-down "manifesto," he has floated options.

A large part of his appeal to Labour's constituency parties is that it is not in his nature to impose faceless candidates whose only credentials are that they are on-message. It cannot be wondered that New Labour's elite, and their paid apparatchiks, are alarmed by the winds of change now blowing.

[Diversion: Akenaton claims there is right on both sides on the Palestine-Israel question. Even if there is, it is not equally distributed. These maps show the extent to which parity is reflected on the ground.]

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 02:56 PM

Correction to the blatantly false and laughable propaganda maps linked to in the post of 16 Aug 15 - 01:09 PM CLICK

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 03:15 PM

Gosh. A so called member of SNP (he isn't really) is so embarrassed by telling us he is a member, he can't even name their policies and achievements. He has to use abbreviations.

By the way worm, it's HM. Not H"M". You disgusting creep. HM means HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE. Are you so scarred by experience you can't even acknowledge decent normal people and their right to happiness? (Are you reading Joe?)

Oy Jim. I lost my house and had a bailiff make us decide whether to keep the pram or cot through being on strike so a bit less of accusing me of not having done anything. I possibly did more politically in an hour than you did in your life but I have no evidence to prove it, as you can't substantiate your dig either. Anyway, I don't laugh at fingers in ears, I laugh at trousers up to yer tits.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 05:19 PM

Yes Peter, I am totally against the continuous expansion and building of settlements.
This issue should have been dealt with years ago, the US is primarily to blame today, but it was the British who oversaw the granting of land which constituted the borders.
I knew a man who was involved in this operation, a Major in the British Army. He told me that on granting many Israelis land, he would return a week later to discover that they had taken ten times the amount granted.

The Palestinian refugees are of course the real victims, but their leaders have let them down very badly to make political points...and line their own pockets.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 05:25 PM

Did anyone see Gordon (clunking fist) Brown attempt to connect with a right hook on oor Jeremy's chin?

The guy is beyond belief, apparently Jeremy wants to build alliances with, left wing regimes like Venezuela, Cuba and ......RUSSIA!!!

Oh my god.....not many "liberals" there....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 06:44 PM

"but their leaders have let them down very badly to make political points.."
Sure they have - no mention of terrorist activity on the part of the Israeli regime, of course - which would make the right of the Labour Party (not to mention the British Government)Complicit in terrorism.
Why take this discussion there Ake - it really is far too complicated to sandwich in here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 07:11 PM

no mention of terrorist activity on the part of the Israeli regime

Of course not because there is no such thing except in the minds of those who wish to demonize Israel. The terrorism that is acknowledged by most democratic countries is that being perpetrated against Israel by such recognized terrorist groups as Hamas and Hezbollah which are funded and supplied with weapons by the terrorist regime of Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 15 - 08:17 PM

"no such thing except in the minds of those who wish to demonize Israel."
Yeah sure Bruce 2000 plus dead Palestinians who died in Gaza last year, 1492 of them were civilians - 551 children and 259 women) last year will vouch for that.
It is somewhat disingenuous to bring up Corbyn's so called friendship with Hamas or the IRA.
At the present time, the British Air Force are carrying out bombing raids in support of a president who has been jailing, torturing and 'disappearing' his opponents, whose men were shooting down women and children on the streets of Homs (and offering prizes to any sniper who could kill a woman and child in arms with a single bullet) and who used chemicals (sold by Britain) on the Syrian people.
Any politician who refuses to negotiate with all sides in such a situation should leave politics and take up macrame
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 03:17 AM

A pity that a thread about UK politics is being polluted by a Canadian who has nothing in common with, has never visited and from his posts fails to understand The Middle East he keeps embarrassing himself by waffling on about.

Corbyn may rightly make reference to the terrorist atrocities inflicted by rogue Israeli governments but by not condemning Hamas and their intransigence cum philosophical aims, his credentials for the world stage are flaky to say the least.

I thought we did away with "my enemies enemy" after Churchill admitted that an alliance with Stalin was a way to end a war, not suck up to criminals.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 05:32 AM

Apologies correction "92% of those who voted in that referendum agreed that guns and bombs have place in the politics of Ireland"

SHOULD HAVE COURSE HAVE READ:

"92% of those who voted in that referendum agreed that guns and bombs have NO place in the politics of Ireland"

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 05:50 AM

"I possibly did more politically in an hour than you did in your life but I have no evidence to prove it,"
And you have no basis for claiming it - you have no idea who I am or what I have been involved in - so why not just accept that fact instead of using fatuous phrases like 'armchair socialist'?
"Cardboard box" - you were lucky!! belongs with Monty Python, it serves only to detract from these discussions
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 05:52 AM

Jim in 1929 - 1934 2 million out of work (It actually reached 2.5 million but never mind detail was never your strong point - 20% of the insured workorce were unemployed - it was 50% in Glasgow)

The population of the UK today is somewhere in the region of 63 million - So not the same thing at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 06:34 AM

The important point, is that there are too many people in this country who are not making a contribution to society and this is because it is cheaper and easier to keep them on derisory benefits than to revamp the education system, encourage contribution through manual work( everyone is not academically minded), give everyone a stake in creating a better society.

Through the EU we have the availability of cheap labour from Eastern Europe, but no infrastructure to support the hundreds of thousands of economic migrants who are arriving. Meanwhile our own people are being squeezed by low wages, zero hours contracts, sky high rents and a shortage of jobs in construction etc.
The whole scenario points to a short term rat race, the economic system is in decline and the time is right to make a change in our values. Only an ignorant fool would think that the wealth differentials we see around us are right or moral.

Has everyone lost all sense of proportion. I have no real faith that Jeremy can defeat the media or convince the Facebook generation, but his real enemies are the "liberals", the myth promoters, the "freedom and democracy" bringers, the sad evolutionists who would preside over the "Decline and Fall".....Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 06:36 AM

terrorist atrocities inflicted by rogue Israeli governments

The only ones who make such outrageous statements are those who wish to demonize and delegitimize the only truly open, free and democratic country in the Middle East. They are recognized for what they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 06:49 AM

" 2 million out of work"
A little shgort of that today - and we're now sending them to Boot Camps
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 07:04 AM

All this just for a leader of ........what is it??? the opposition.......beaten in the general election!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 07:45 AM

Not really Bonzo. It is about the future direction of the Labour party. Individual candidates are of little importance compared to that. And anyone who is interested in the good of the country should want to ensure the democratic system is healthy whoever they support.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 08:31 AM

"Not really Bonzo. It is about the future direction of the Labour party."
Exactly - it's about giving the electorate the choice.
At present Britain has Conservative Conservatism, Labour Conservatism or Liberal Democrat Conservatism, which is why it has become the increasingly poverty-stricken shit-hole it has.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 08:48 AM

Like I said Jim. Armchair socialists.

I know of another poverty stricken shit hole Jim. Like us, it has the odd economic migrant sponging off it 🍀

It's a bit disturbing reading on here comments about the "danger" of "liberals." If I want to read that nonsense, I might pick up some Murdoch toilet paper or listen to the silly end of the American republican bun fight. Mind you, looking at the source of it, monkey read, monkey repeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 08:49 AM

And that's the way WE want it to stay, if it's all the same to you!