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BS: E Milliband was unelectable
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Subject: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: The Sandman Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:03 PM So was Neil Kinnock, these unelectable politicians are trying to tell us Corbyn is unelectable, the blind trying to lead those who can see clearly |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Nigel Parsons Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:14 PM Both Kinnock & Corbyn have been successfully elected, so are clearly 'electable'. If you mean to imply that, as head of a party, they would not see that party garner a majority, then you should say so. As far as becoming leader of their own party, yes, Kinnock was elected, and Corbyn looks as if he will be. If you mean as Prime Minister, then the UK does not hold elections to that post. (Sometimes individual parties may, if they are already in power, and looking for a change of leadership) |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:21 PM GSS ....Ed was humiliated by the media (Wallace and Gromit, Baconrollgate).....it was a professional hit and he didn't have the self belief to dodge it. Joining forces with the Tories against Scottish Independence finished him, although to be fair he didn't have many other places to go. Hope Jeremy makes it for leadership, but the Party will almost certainly split if he does.....the Blairites will start another Social Democracy Party. The SDEP has a nice "liberal" ring to it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: michaelr Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:34 PM As a fan of Wallace and Gromit, I'd like to know how they were involved in a "professional hit" on a British politician. Please explain! |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: The Sandman Date: 23 Aug 15 - 02:48 PM kinnock and milliband were unable to get elected to lead the country, so they should shut up, do you understand, nigel parsons, they are hadly competent to lecture about who is electable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,Musket Date: 23 Aug 15 - 03:52 PM Corbyn has something to offer politics in that he is opening up from the consensus. That's far different to being seen by the electorate as fit to run a country in the western economic climate. Unless Labour eventually put an electable front to the people, we may have a long time of Tory government. Corbyn has an answer for spending money but nothing of interest to say about raising it. Still, we could all fuck off to Ireland as economic migrants eh Dick? |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Raedwulf Date: 23 Aug 15 - 04:11 PM In the sense that Schweik means it, yes he was, yes he was, yes he is (no need to split hairs, Nigel!). I don't take too much interest in politics, as I'm too cynical to have any faith in any of them. However, Corbyn does strike me as at least believing in a large part of what he propounds. But the UK press will have a field day with him. You might not like it, but neither Kinnock nor Milliband were elected (and, I must admit, I did laugh when Balls was unelected, but that's another matter). Corbyn won't be either, and if, as seems likely, he becomes Labour leader, I am afraid that Labour make themselves unelectable. I do not express a personal political point of view in saying so; I just think that's the way the UK is. I appear to be not disagreeing with Probably Mr Mather again. The world Probably ends next week! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Aug 15 - 04:12 PM There appears to be an undignified element of panic in the Labour Party from everyone on the right (which is everyone to the right of Corbyn :-) ) which is making them come out of the woodwork to brief against Jeremy. This appears to be having the effect of making him all the stronger. It's quite amusing to behold, and is almost certainly going to have at least two unintended consequences: to get him elected, and to increase his stature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Musket Date: 23 Aug 15 - 05:17 PM It does tend to amuse me when people say who was elected etc. I suppose if you are a member of a party, you can say you were part of electing them. However, the British people have never ever voted for a Prime Minister. They vote for a party and their local MP as a member of that party. I suppose we are somewhat Presidential in that the personality of the MP leading said party influences your vote, ( I have a lot of time for our local MP, a Tory, but have told him I couldn't vote for his party's manifesto.) But the fools who keep saying nobody voted for Gordon Brown as Prime Minister are correct but not in the ignorant sense of their presumption. Milliband wasn't exactly electable, even if you remove all the media silliness over his personality. He failed to combat the Tory tactic of blaming the last Labour government for the economic world downturn, despite Brown receiving accolades internationally for being the world leader who almost single handedly prevented it from getting worse. Considering the story's voted with the government on each and every economic measure during that time, the only charge that could stick would be selling gold cheap as chancellor and seeing PFI as better than treasury investment in public services. Big cock ups, yes but easily combated. Milliband failed to combat fairy stories, let alone reality. Dr/Mr Mather isn't logged in to my knowledge. I was looking for him at Whitby if you know better.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: The Sandman Date: 23 Aug 15 - 05:56 PM "Still, we could all fuck off to Ireland as economic migrants eh Dick" a baffling statement, is it meant to be a joke?, what makes you think i am an economic migrant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Musket Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:12 PM Because according to the newspaper in my hand, they don't have a sense of humour. Ring any bells duck? I'm an economic migrant myself. On the basis that the counties of The UK north of the border call themselves a separate country and I moved up here for work purposes. Mind you, Musket moved to North Lincolnshire so I should be so lucky. Steve. You are right in that the more people denigrate Corbyn the stronger he gets, like some Medusa figure. However, Corbyn should note the difference between dislike for porridge politics and liking his ideas. His popularity is the breath of fresh air against two parties you couldn't swipe a credit card between their arses. It is mental leap to assume his ideas could ever convince an electorate. Torys, not stories in my previous post. It should be obvious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: The Sandman Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:23 PM Musket,no ,i do not know what you are on about. my point is that we have two leaders of the labour party who failed to win an election and they are trying to point out that someone else is not going to win. its rather like a team that never scores any goals pontificating on how to score goals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:37 PM That is true, Musket, but let's face it: nothing emanating from the other three candidates is ever exactly going to set the electorate on fire in a month of Sundays either. It's not as though we're being offered a viable alternative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:48 PM The problem Good Soldier, is that only a small minority of people see socialism as the answer to society's problems.....Most people would rather keep buying the lottery tickets. Financial aspiration is as powerful as it is destructive. As I said on another thread, our best hope is a few small Parties working together using Proportional Representation....long term I'm afraid, don't expect to see it any time soon, but a start is better than carrying on the present charade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Aug 15 - 06:51 PM Please, friends, enlighten us, your American kinfolk. You speak in code, and then deem us ignorant. I guess the subject of the thread is:
So, obviously, both Ed and his brother David were electable, but possibly not as Prime Minister. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Raedwulf Date: 23 Aug 15 - 08:17 PM Sorry, Joe, but surely you can understand it's just funny to leave you in ignorance? ;-) If not, imagine US politics as the three-cornered fight that it hasn't been since... when??? Milliband was the third party. In what has always been supposed to be (well, for 80-odd years, anyway) a two party fight. You've got Republocrats & Demicons. Or something. We've got Tories AND Labour AND LibDems. LD's don't usually matter worth a damn, but occasionally hold the balance of power. ESM was (allegedly) Labour. But he managed to make himself unelectable, the third party in a two-cornered fight, hence the comments. If you see what I mean. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: michaelr Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:19 PM Fine then, don't tell me. Asshole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:26 PM Google it, Joe. That's what we Brits do to find out about your politicos. Needless to say, we invariably find the exercise to be exceptionally disappointing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Raedwulf Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:28 PM And who do you think you are talking to, mr? |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:31 PM You never know who you're talking to around here.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Aug 15 - 09:50 PM I dunno. I just guess I was brought up to think that a discussion should be initiated with some sort of general explanation so that common ground for discussion is established. You know, it might even be healthy for you Brits to go through the exercise of explaining what you're talking about. Then you might actually know what you're talking about, instead of just arguing mindlessly to keep the air circulating. So, OK, we Americans know about Churchill and Atlee and that nice Tony Brown and horrid Mrs. Thatcher. And we know that there's some guy named Cameron that we can't be sure about. But Miliband, who the heck is Miliband? Heck, even the thread originator can't spell his name.... -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 24 Aug 15 - 07:28 AM The thread Joe has really nothing to do with Mr Milliband, It's about "electability" the effect of the media no peoples voting intentions. It was a good subject to discuss, Thanks to Good Soldier. There is an election for leader of the Labour Party at the moment, The Labour Party was founded on socialists principles, but has been adulterated in recent years by free market "liberals" like the "Tony Brown" that you mention. Mr Antony Brown was very popular and kept many MPs in well paid jobs for years.....but he took us to war, privatised everything he could, and finally bankrupted the country. Front runner in this leadership election is(believe it or not), a socialist called Jeremy Corbyn and all the "liberals" in the opposition and in the country are at present trying to convince the Labour Party membership that Mr Corbyn would be unelectable in a general election, chiefly because he is a "socialist", the sort of person who founded the Labour Party in the first place!! Some of us have been saying that it does not matter if Jeremy wins a general election or not, the important thing being that a socialist voice will again be heard in British politics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Aug 15 - 07:43 AM Who's this Anthony Brown? And what's all this "you Brits" malarkey? |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Musket Date: 24 Aug 15 - 07:54 AM The thing is Joe, what people are pointing out is that the general public do not elect a Prime Minister, they elect a party and the party decides its leader. To be fair, the influence of American ideas and media campaigns has always tampered with that idea and thee are still people going round saying the previous Prime Minister Gordon Brown was never elected. Such ignorance is mainly due to lazy misunderstanding what it means when they are let loose in a polling booth, and to be fair, because journalists try to see similarities in systems so compare a Prime Minister to a President.. Did you know? Thanks to trashy US soap operas being beamed into homes for years and years, British Telecom had to add 911 to do the same as 999, the national emergency number because younger people assumed 911 meant emergency after being raised on popcorn television. Well, politics can mean the same too. On this debate, I agree Steve, and further, I think him at the despatch box for a couple of years will enliven political debate which is a good thing, but in the same way the people trusted Churchill in war but rejected him come peace, the UK electorate don't need a Tory press to see the flawed logic in quantitive easing in times of growth, nationalisation without compensation and incomes policy. Parts may have merit, but if you want a mix n match to achieve success, those eligible to vote may as well vote Andy Burnham. The only Labour platform that has secured government in the last forty years has been a moderate one. And then some... |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: The Sandman Date: 24 Aug 15 - 11:23 AM Corbyn is moderate ,the rest are Conservatives in disguise, Blair was a left of center conservative a bit like Heath, The only way he differed was his foreign policy as regards Ulster, his wife being Catholic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST Date: 24 Aug 15 - 01:46 PM I think it was Roy Jenkins who said that 'Labour's problem is that the British public is basically Conservative. It's Labour's job to prevent them realising it.' Unfortunately for the likes of Kinnock, Miliband et al, the British public do realise that they're 'basically Conservative' which is why they usually vote for them, only voting Labour after long periods of Tory government. Probably from boredom or because 'it's time for a change.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST Date: 24 Aug 15 - 02:13 PM Labours policies on immigration was their downfall in the May election, that and borrow borrow borrow to get out of debt. Thank God we elected a strong government not afraid to deal with such issues. We will hold power for a decade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Aug 15 - 02:22 PM Of course, Margaret Thatcher was widely said to be unelectable, when she was made Tory leader almost by accident. That turned out not to be the case, somewhat unfortunately. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: michaelr Date: 24 Aug 15 - 03:20 PM I was talking to ake, who bizarrely brought up Wallace and Gromit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: The Sandman Date: 24 Aug 15 - 03:59 PM Anthony brown is a variation on gordon blair, one thing they have in common is that they both puppets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 24 Aug 15 - 05:48 PM I'm Sorry michaelr, didn't mean to be dismissive and I have been on a lot of hospital duty today. When Mr Milliband was elected leader of the Labour Party, the media latched on to the fact that he looked rather like Wallace, a comedy cartoon character which you are obviously familiar with. The joke stuck and was followed by several other personal attacks on his appearance and rather gauche mannerisms. I always try to respond civilly to civil people, of whom you are normally one.....Ake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: michaelr Date: 24 Aug 15 - 07:16 PM Thank you, and I apologize for the namecalling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Aug 15 - 08:29 PM Interesting that Joe Offer felt it necessary to give that potted summary for bemused Americans. No one would be likely to feel it necessary to do the same about some thread about the American political squabbles round their electiin, for the sake of puzzled foreigners. Of course he's right, our media gives more attention to America than it does to most of the UK. But it does illustrate the truism that in some ways, the bigger the country, the smaller the world it lives in. I believe it applies to China even more than to the USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Aug 15 - 08:38 PM Yes, in this world of wiki and google, Joe's lament does seem obsolete. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 15 - 02:36 AM Just think. If gay people were only civil so he could be civil back, Akenaton would be the world's first person to be cured of a personality disorder. Even when he tries to sound contrite, it merely contradicts his outlook, sad bugger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 25 Aug 15 - 03:16 AM Canada is much larger than the US but it does have a much broader view. In this case , size does not matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 25 Aug 15 - 03:27 AM No problem M, I do tend to ignore a lot of stuff here but it was purely an oversight...best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Jack Blandiver Date: 25 Aug 15 - 05:00 AM I thought Miliband was very electable actually. Otherwise I wouldn't have voted for him. In fact, as I sat watching Magma at the Royal Northern College of Music on the evening May 7th I was quietly confident of a Labour victory. Earlier that day I'd had a brief but inspiring chat outside the Fleetwood Labour Party hq with a very optimistic Cat Smith. We parted with laughter and it felt like change was in the air as my wife & I drove off to MCR to immerse ourselves in an evening of soothing Zeuhl. Then came the despair of the Exit Polls, but my heart was lifted as I smiled through my tears watching as Sunderland returned an overwhelming Labour majority. Happily, Cat got in too. She supports Jeremy Corbyn. As do I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,Musket Date: 25 Aug 15 - 06:49 AM Miliband certainly had a focus, but his lack of real world experience showed through more than Cameron's despite their very similar post uni" "Westminster bubble" that does make people seem to think pronouncements make reality. I turned off when, after him meeting with twenty or so healthcare people, myself included, crying that GP retirements are increasing and young doctors not wanting to go into that profession where they have to add practice share to their mortgage and student debt. Two days later, he promised 20,000 GPs from somewhere. You see, professional politicians believe their own bullshit. They genuinely think if they say it will be so, it can be. Mind you, he did force Jeremy Hunt to make a similar promise. Seeing him back pedal now is almost a delight. Or would be if we weren't facing such a problem... |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,buddy Date: 25 Aug 15 - 07:19 AM This place is so boring. No wonder it is dying a slow painful death. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,buddy Date: 25 Aug 15 - 07:25 AM What is forty feet long and has 8 teeth? |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: BobL Date: 26 Aug 15 - 04:25 AM Once upon a time it was the queue for a Max Bygraves show... |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,buddy Date: 26 Aug 15 - 07:04 AM Good guess but it is the front row at a Willie Nelson concert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Brian May Date: 07 Sep 15 - 06:25 PM So. . . the Labour Party has a week to live . . . Leastways, the Labour Party that was cohesive and in touch with reality anyway. For our American cousins Labour = Democrats (ish). Best thing to happen to the Conservatives (Republicans) will be the election of the (relatively) ultra left wing Jeremy Corbyn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Sep 15 - 06:45 PM A shade of overconfidence there. Always hedge your bets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: Steve Shaw Date: 07 Sep 15 - 08:53 PM Ultra left wingers do not inhabit the Labour Party. Look elsewhere for the true lefties. Jeremy is a bunny rabbit compared to some of the people you'd find in the SWP, for example. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 08 Sep 15 - 03:08 AM I think we all know that Jeremy won't be Prime Minister. It's not about getting power, its about being able to make our voices heard. At the moment there is no one advocating a socialist answer to all the problems that have been created in the last couple of decades and as Labour leader Jeremy can join with other smaller Parties to put pressure on ......and to perform the difficult job of implementing change in how the electorate view politics and the future. Nothing important is going to happen quickly.....but if this chance is missed we may not see another. PR should be the first objective. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: akenaton Date: 08 Sep 15 - 03:11 AM Even "Ultra Leftwingers" need to be pragmatic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,Selby Date: 08 Sep 15 - 03:23 AM Surely no one knows what sort of leader JC would make it is one thing to canvas to win an election and another thing to lead. With leadership comes responsibility and you cannot behave with just disagreeing with what the other person said, JC electability comes when, like it or not he has to show respect to the Queen and the nation. Then it will get interesting. His future and the labour parties future is very much in his hands. There is I believe an sub plot to be explored and that is the SNP has seen to be leading the left in parliament, where will the SNP be when JC arrives Keith |
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Subject: RE: BS: E Milliband was unelectable From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 08 Sep 15 - 03:40 AM "Best thing to happen to the Conservatives (Republicans) will be the election of the (relatively) ultra left wing Jeremy Corbyn." Pretty Polly! Pretty Polly! That's it, keep on parroting the right wing media to ensure that this country never changes. Have you ever been able to think for yourself, Brian? |