BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits

Subject: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 01:30 AM

This a draft of a letter I'd like to send to my state legislators:

My power went out Friday afternoon, and my house was soon surrounded by the sound of sirens and helicopters. I didn't want to tie up the 911 emergency line, so I called the Sheriff's business number to find out what was happening. I was transferred to Dispatch (911), and the operator who answered sounded peeved as she told me that it was just a vehicle accident and I had nothing to worry about.

Sunday morning's newspaper told me that I DID have something to worry about. There was a domestic violence incident in the nearby town of Colfax that involved a parolee, and a chase ensued at speeds over 100 miles per hour. The vehicle went off the freeway and flew into a ravine. There was gasoline leaking from the vehicle, and a power line was affected and had to be shut down.

And I wonder, was that high-speed pursuit really necessary? How many drivers were endangered in that pursuit? How far away were we from a fire in that tinder-dry ravine, five lots away from my home?

Nowadays, I wonder every time I see emergency lights and hear sirens. Was that really necessary? A few months ago, I pulled off on the left shoulder of a freeway in Sacramento to let a California Highway Patrol car with flashing lights go by. The CHP cruiser pulled off at the next exit, and I almost hit a guard rail as the shoulder disappeared before I had reasonable time to stop.

I encounter flashing lights and sirens several times a week, often when traffic is moving along smoothly and there seems to be no need for the emergency vehicles to get just a bit ahead of the traffic. I"m not the only one who gets confused by lights and sirens. Most drivers don't seem to know at first where the siren's coming from, or where to go on a freeway when an emergency vehicle wants to go by. Indeed, the slowing and stopping of traffic might even serve to impede the emergency vehicles.

And then there are the innocent people who get killed in this process, especially in high-speed pursuits. Two children were killed in a police pursuit in Detroit recently, and others were killed not long ago in Sacramento by a pursuit that began in my home county.

I think we need legislation to restrict and control pursuits and the use of emergency lights and sirens, so that they're used only when they are really necessary. These "public safety" vehicles are causing a danger to the general public. It's time to enact sensible regulation of pursuits, lights, and sirens.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 04:32 AM

the police car drivers are in some danger too. But at the end of the day we do ask those policemen and women to stand between us and the miscreant's bullet. And sadly there are occasions when they do, and can't any more.

It's a tough ask, but on balance I cut them a bit of slack to make decisions on the hoof, in my best interest. They are human.

The law of unintended consequences, doesn't exist, the law of incomplete discussion is it's real name! Beware what you wish for, you may just get it. Think how the criminals would think when the law has no teeth.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 07:50 AM

""Where we wake up electrified out of the coma by our own souls' airplanes roaring over the roof.

They've come to drop angelic bombs.

The hospital illuminates itself, imaginary walls collapse,
skinny legions run outside.

Starry-spangled shock of mercy the eternal war is here.

Victory!

Forget your underwear, we're free.""

Howl
Allen Ginsberg

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 08:47 AM

In a pursuit of any length the cops can use spike strips to stop a vehicle. The "needles" let the air out of the tires, but in such a way that the vehicle is not thrown out of control. They've been used quite a bit out here, and quite successfully. One person continued to drive on the rims, but the deflated tires made speed impossible.

Joe, a cop who misuses the red-lights-and-siren thing is subject to disciplinary action but it's up to you to prove s/he was only running for doughnuts. What really bothers me are those who do NOT get out of the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 09:23 AM

Yeah, people around here don't seem to know that you should pull OVER - not just slow down, but get OUT of the way. It bothers me tremendously to see ambulances sirening and lighting away, and people just hunkering down in their lanes in front of them. Cops, though, I always suspect of trying to get to the pizza before it gets cold, unfair of me, but there you have it. I pull over anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 02:28 PM

We also especially enjoy the LED flashers that blind nearby drivers who then run right into things in these SAFETY zones....

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 10:50 PM

The question is whether high-speed pursuits are actually necessary. Radio works at the speed of light, and before any high-speed chase the cops should think twice about the safety of civilians. Running at high speed through a school zone or a neighborhood with many children should be thunk twice before it's done. Yes, there might well be times when public safety supersedes the dangers to the public of such a chase -- an active shooter trying to escape, for instance -- but with the tools available to the police it might be easier just to pull a big truck across the path or use the aforementioned spike strips.

In truth, I know several cops and a high-speed chase scares the shit out of them. They know the dangers to themselves and others and except for the Adrenaline Few they'd prefer to avoid them (just as they would prefer not to shoot anyone). Out here in the Great Beyond the PD's cooperate well, so a baddy pursued onto, say, the Shoshone-Bannock Reservation (Ft. Hall) would be also pursued by the tribal police as well and the cops from the surrounding towns and the Idaho State Police...which does not mean it would be at break-neck speeds. More likely the tribal cops would spike the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: JennieG
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 12:37 AM

In New South Wales, Oz, we have "Skye's Law, brought in a few years ago following a police pursuit in which a toddler was killed. It puts the onus on the car/driver being pursued by the police to stop, but in the heat of the moment how many will do so?

Skye's Law

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 03:02 AM

"get to the pizza before it gets cold"!!! I would not be policeman in America for love nor money.........or warm pizza.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 10:43 AM

I've been thinking about the incident at Joe's place (see OP)

There was a criminal (parolee) and he'd been beating his wife or kids. He was prob. drunk or on drugs. Somebody called for help, and the police were obliged to come and help.

The criminal jumps in a car and takes off at high speed.

What's better, for a criminal to rush through unsuspecting neighborhoods alone, or for a crim. to rush through unsus. neigh'hoods with a cop behind, flashing lights and sounding a siren?

If I'm out there, innocently driving to the grocery store, isn't it better for me to hear and see that there is danger? Because I can hear that siren from blocks away, perhaps a mile.

And if the criminal crashes, isn't it better for a cop to be right there, knowing that it happened and where it happened, and summoning help?
=============
And consider the alternative. If the police had the policy of "no chasing," then criminals would know that they could rob banks, shoot the convenience store clerk, or beat their families, and all they would have to do is hop in a car and speed away. Because the cops won't follow.

Beyond that, criminals don't think.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 11:06 AM

I'm in the UK and this story goes back 60 years- a school friend's dad was a cop and he said they would put the sirens/lights on to get back for their meal break or darts match, whatever!. However, we always pull over- it might be a fire-engine or ambulance- the sounds are similar. I agree it is sometimes difficult to work out where they are coming from.
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 12:25 PM

Here where I am unauthorized use of emergency lights and siren will get you first disciplined and then fired, which is as it should be. That holds for ALL first responder agencies -- including the Bureau of Land Management, the Forestry Service, and anyone else authorized to use those.

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 12:27 PM

Why do we think the police are the only ones who might misuse lights and siren? Why not fire trucks or ambulances?

Subject: RE: BS: Lights, Sirens, and Police Pursuits
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 02:59 PM

Mr. Ed
GRAND connection to Mr. G
Thank You

Joe -
Try - Broadcastify (free)
Your local and county are covered.
For a fee you can get archived replays. Like the police and fire calls for a recently deceased relative. Rather kewl. She was dead on the sidewalk.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Perhaps, the media is overwhelmed, but coverage of local events is abysmal.