BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 07:05 PM

The US "boots" are targeting ISIS, not Assad or the rebels. This can't be a bad thing unless you support what they (ISIS) are doing.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 05:25 PM

Excellent resume Mr McGrath.   Like most other issues debated here it has become an issue of ideology.

Common sense has been removed from the equation.

In the minds of most Western "liberals" it was all about the "Arab Spring".....perhaps not in the minds of Western governments, who have little truck with such luxuries as real equality or real democracy, but in the minds of "useful idiots" who believe that our type of "freedom" can be transplanted into other cultures.

It took us many decades to debauch and weaken our society into the dirty joke it has become.....what makes "liberals" think that they can achieve it overnight?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 05:08 PM

The sense I've got throughout is that all the news we got For years was soun to present an oversimplofied narrative of a horribly complex situation, in which the opposition were presnted as shining democrats, and Assad's as the most evil of dictatorships, with no popular support.

In fact, as has now become clear, much of the opposition were and are ruthless sectarian fanatics, and Assad had majority support. Which was a mixture that ensured a genocidal war.

The only realistic option is to make some kind of deal with the Assad regime, as appears to be available in principle, under which there is a united front against Isis and Al Qaeda, and an agreement that the decision about the nature of the Syrian givernment should be made by a genuine popular vote, including refugees, and not imposed by any outside powers.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 02:27 PM

As so often......"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". US troops on the ground, in whatever capacity, however few, just the sort of recruitment boost IS will milk for all it's worth.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 02:19 PM

"Had the west overridden the veto, Syria would now be just like Libya."
Not necessarily - it could just as easily have been like Tunisia
Whatever way it was - the dead of Homs the many thousands of others massacred by or now ally would have been saved, the refugees wouldn't have existed and Isis would not have got a foothold and become the world threat it now is.
As I said - the boots would be very much forthcoming had there been oil involved - the U has never thought twice about sending in The Marines -and the napalm and the Agent Orange and the B52s - whenever its economic or political interests ate threatened or offended and its poodle, Britain, would have been there like a shot - HMV and all that.
Britain could and should have taken diplomatic steps to stop the massacres - we did nothing and Assad's assets remain untouched in London.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 01:52 PM

It wouldn't actually be that bad if we followed the model that General Butler so concisely explained--the thing is, we don't.

Yes, we marched in, took over, and set up stable, if not oppressive, puppet governments that we could do business with, the Shah in Iran, Quadaffi (or however you want to spell it)in Libya,Saddam in Iraq, the Taliban(or don't you remember that we set them up?) etc. --so far so good--

The thing is, we then we decided, for one reason or another, that we didn't like them(usually, it was because if you set up a despotic government that is focussed on creating wealth, sooner or later, the liberalizing effects of wealth trickle down, and the body politic starts to think they ought to be self-determining, rather than chattels to Western interests) and, with great fanfare, fussed about torture and rampant violation of civil rights(which, to be completely honest, we taught them how to do) so we subsidize random, dubious sorts to overthrow the Shah, start the Arab Spring, invade Iraq--and expect that some sort of liberal, congenial, economically cooperative democracy will just spring from the ground. And so it goes...

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 01:43 PM

At least the Russians were invited by the legitimate government. Any American boots on the ground show a total contempt for international law.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 12:37 PM

That link just about nails it #.

It is now further complicated by a pseudo religious perspective.

Perhaps we are reaping what we have sowed, but a virulent epidemic needs to be wiped out......self preservation is important, these people do not recognise mercy.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 12:28 PM

Eighty years and we ain't learned squat.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 12:27 PM

War has few laws left that anyone pays attention to. Ain't good, but it's the way it has become. War is a racket. When you have an hour to spare the book by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC is worth a read. It's online and easy to find with Mr Google. He also spoke about interventionism and here is an oft-quoted piece from him.

Smedley Butler on Interventionism.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 12:26 PM

Had the west overridden the veto, Syria would now be just like Libya.

We needed boots on the ground long ago, but the boots were not forthcoming and we would not support Assad's troops.In fact we wanted to wipe out Assad's troops....how stupid is that?
Russia did what was required by giving meaningful air cover and now Assad is pushing the terrorists back....he should keep pushing till these maniacs are wiped out.

Inserting US troops between Assad and the terrorists is dangerous and stupid. Why are the American public not protesting this madness?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 12:07 PM

"Putting US soldiers between President Assad's troops and ISIS a very dangerous tactic"
And allowing to win this war and return to power is putting at risk many thousands of Syrian lives - an inevitable return to the situation described so vividly in the Amnesty report on Human Rights abuses in Syria.
Had the United Nations intervened or had the West overridden the Russio/Chinese vetor, as they would have if there had been oil involved, Isis would have been no more than a bunch of ranting cranks.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 11:27 AM

I am also sure that putting troops into a sovereign country without the permission of the recognised government of that country is illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 11:25 AM

Yes I realise that leeneia.

In just cant see the sense of the policy, why don't they accept Russia's offer of shared intelligence and firepower?
Surely they realise that ISIS is a grave danger to us all and must be controlled. Putting US soldiers between President Assad's troops and ISIS a very dangerous tactic and very stupid if it is being done for domestic political consumption.

This is an issue where we can work together in a common cause and make the world a safer place into the bargain.
It could lead to further co-operation in military AND commercial issues.......what exactly is Mr Obama trying to achieve?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 11:01 AM

You do realize that 'boots on the ground' is a trick phrase to avoid talking about real men and women being in danger, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 10:51 AM

Because they are just boots!

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 10:51 AM

It's a proxy struggle, Ake. US and Russia posturing. There have been "advisors" on the ground in that region for a long time. This simply formalizes it. To general disappointment here.

Subject: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 05:53 AM

WHY?
Has Mr Obama gone back on his promise?

Commentators here think it is "gesture politics", but is that not an extremely dangerous game? Or is HtH putting on the pressure in her bid for the Presidency?

In any case, why no comment so far?