English Civil War

Subject: English Civil War
From: Laurie C
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 04:45 AM

I,m looking for English Civil War ballads. The Bodley site at Oxford University is great but I could do with some more. Any tips?

Laurie

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 05:10 AM

Look for a group called 'Strawhead', they do a lot of stuff for ECW and Sealed Knot Society do's. They should have a website called listen.to/strawhead very soon, if not now, which has stuff from their latest release on it. Hope you get something.

You could also look for the Sealed Knot, English Civil War Society and English Heritage, they all have plenty of info.

LTS

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: wildlone
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 07:01 AM

Penguin books produced a book "An Anthology of War Poetry",the copy I have got is dated 1942 and I found it in my local second hand book shop.
Let me know if you are looking for any thing specific and I will see if I have got it

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Gint
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 04:01 PM

contact ferret or jon_a.

ferret will soon have to move from a 3 bed house just to store his song books

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 05:03 PM

There aren't too many songs about actual battles, but dozens of political songs and ballads from the various factions. Thomasson collection in BL, 'Ratts Rhimed to death', 1660, Rump'; 1662. M. Parker's "When the King enjoys his own again" (Percy Folios MS, tune on my website); "Fain I would" on my website (ZN833, broadside ballad index, tune on my website); "Fair Fidelia, tempt no more" (ZN840) on my website is the non-political version, but you can click on to the political version from the notes there (Scarce Songs 1). The one commonly know as 'The Blackbird (1651) has even been collected in the US (ZN69, 17th and 18th centruy tunes on my website). A search thorugh my broadside ballad index and H. E. Rollins' 'Cavalier and Puritan' will turn up others. Joseph Frank's 'Hobbled Pegasus', 1968, is a catalog of anonymous songs and poems of the period 1641-1660.

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 05:43 PM

Correction: ZN833 is Laurence Price's imitation of "Fain I would", not the original in the scarce songs 1 file. Joseph Franck's bibliography is an index of published songs and poetry. Publishers of the newspapers of the time quite often got a fine and a time in jail for some of the songs and poems they published, and some songs, like "Fain I would" and the political "Fair Fidelia, tempt no more" are known only from manuscript copies. There was a supression of broadside ballads, and the only entries of broadside ballads in the Stationers' Register from the start of 143 were 3 in 1643, 1 in 1644, 1 in 1645, 2 in 1649, then none until Mar. 12, 1656, when many were entered. Several are, however, known to have been printed in that period, altough not entered.

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 09:32 PM

I forgot to mention Charles McKay's 'Cavalier Songs and Ballads'. One copy of that and several of Rollins' 'Cavalier and Puritan' can be found for sale at present at www.bookfinder.co,

Subject: Lyr Add: Though Oxford Be Yielded^^
From: Bruce O.
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 03:07 PM

Though Oxford* be yielded and Reading be taken,
I'll put in for quarter at thy maidenhead.
There while I'm ensconded, my standard unshaken,
Lie thou in my arms, and I in thy bed.
Let the young zealots march with their wenches,
Mounting their tools to edify trenches,
While thou and I do make it out pleasure,
Where nobody else shall plunder but I.

And when we together in battle do join
We scorn to wear arms but what are our own.
Strike thou at my body, and I'll thrust at thine.
By nakedness best the truth is made known.
Cannons** may roar and bullets keep flying;
While we are in battle we never fear dying.
Isaac and's wenches are busy a-digging [Isaac Pennington
But all our delight is in japing and jigging,
And nobody else shall plunder but I.

And when at the last our bodies are weary,
We'll straight to the tavern our strength to recruit,
Where when we've refreshed our hearts with canary,
We shall be the fitter again to go to't.
We'll tipple and drink until we do stagger,
For then is the time for soldiers top swagger,
Thus night and day we'll thump it and knock it,
And when we've no money, then look to your pocket,
For nobody else shall plunder but I.

*Oxford fell to Parliament forces in June 1646.
**When cannons are roaring and bullets are flying,
He that would honour win must not fear dying [from older ballad; late print with music in Forbes' 'Cantus', 1662. Tune B504 at website noted below]

By Alex Broome, whe said he wrote it in 1645, but it can't be before 1646, and not published until 1661. Tune B325 at www.erols.com/olsonw

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: lamarca
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 05:41 PM

I found a listing for this book while scanning ABEbooks.com for something else - don't know how good a collection it is, but you might see if your library can get it through inter-library loan:

Rollins, Hyder E. Cavalier and Puritan-Ballads and Broadsides Illustrating the Period of the Great Rebellion 1640-1660. New York University Press. First Edition VG. NY. 1923. 532pp. Illus. Hardcover.

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 06:34 PM

It's excellent, (as is anything by Hyder Edward Rollins, whose mentor was George Lyman Kittredge, whose mentor was Francis James Child) but the emphasis isn't on the civil war. In it are a number close to popular style ballads, in particular 'The Ladies Lamentation', 1651. This is the one the Irish called 'The Blackbird' and took it to refer to Bonnie Prince Charlie. It's even been collected in the US. [Randolph, 'Ozark Folksongs', I, #116, 1980.] There are a few songs from the book in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website. [www.bookfinder.com had several copies listed a few days ago]

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Auxiris
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 04:31 AM

Wildlone, you wouldn't happen to have the text of "Dominion of the Sword in the Anthology of War Poetry by any chance?

cheers, Auxiris

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Penny S.
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 11:51 AM

Anyone heard from the-one-and-only-Dai or ivy b. lately? seems like the sort of thing the re-enactors would know.

Penny

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: wildlone
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 01:36 PM

Auxiris: yes I do have it I will post it at the weekend if nobody beats me to it

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 01:46 PM

For "The Dominion of the Sword" = "The Power of the Sword" = "Lay by your pleading" see Chappell's PMOT, II, p. 431 and ZN1612 in the broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw. ABCs of tunes for it are B274 and B275 there.

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From:
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 01:47 PM

Not quite English Civil War, but does anyone have a source for a recording/music for Gerald Winstanley's song "Levellers and Diggers"?

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 01:59 PM

The tune for "The Diggers' Song" it is not definately known, but was probably "Sound a Charge". What may have been "Sound A Charge" is B348 (Put in All) on my website, but B349, which dates from 1642, is another good possibility. We do not yet have very solid evidence for early variants of the "Put in All/ Chimney Sweep/Captain Kidd" tune complex. ("Touch and Go" was another name for "Sound a Charge")

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Bruce O.
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 02:48 PM

The earliest printed copy of "The Dominion of the Sword", 1659, can be seen at the Bodley Ballads sebsite. In Search/Shelfmarks put Wood 401(167)

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: zenduck
Date: 21 Dec 99 - 12:20 PM

Bruce O. - thanks for the info on "The Diggers Song." What's your website address? I'd like to look up "Sound A Charge."

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Flewruby
Date: 21 Dec 99 - 03:43 PM

Laurie -- Are you looking for contemporary English Civil War ballads or more recent songs about the Civil War? 'Babylon is Fallen' I was told was a contemporary ECW song (it's in the Mudcat database -- sorry, haven't yet figured out if you can give a clickety-click lead to a song title from here).

One way to find out more ECW songs is is to post a message in 'The Beer Tent' on the Sealed Knot's website (www.sealedknot.org)and you should get a lot of leads!

Flewruby

Subject: RE: English Civil War
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 21 Dec 99 - 09:00 PM

I remember a true story that was put to song about a lady defending a fortified house. Lathom or lathholme House The only part of it I can remember is from the chorus: Heh Ho Lathom House; but it is Civil war vintage. Hope it helps..... For those who enjoy a good action adventure, she defended the house and captured a bloody big cannon, the Rounheads brought to drive her out. Turned it against them, but eventually surrendered rather than have all inside starved to death. What a woman eh? just my kind of girl.