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Subject: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 13 Feb 16 - 10:56 AM The trees they do grow high: a ballad of medieval arranged marriage? This traditional song has attracted repeated claims of medieval origins. Can they be substantiated? This new article investigates, with a performance of the song on medieval harp. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 13 Feb 16 - 10:46 PM very interesting blog, I've bookmarked it, thanks for posting the article sandra |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 14 Feb 16 - 08:08 AM Thank you, Sandra. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jack Campin Date: 14 Feb 16 - 09:14 AM Any similar info on the history of the tune? |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 14 Feb 16 - 02:54 PM Are you sure you mean medieval? Even the few ballads that are set in medieval times probably originated in the early modern period and even then we're only talking about a handful of ballads and not many more beyond 1550. If the ballad indeed does relate to any real event then the most commonly accepted theory is it relates to an event that happened to the Laird of Craigton c1634 but it may well be older than that. However it is highly unlikely that the ballad itself is medieval. As for the story, well I suppose it's possible that could be much older. Certainly some of the stories told in the ballads can be traced back to medieval times, but not in ballad form in English. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jack Campin Date: 14 Feb 16 - 03:37 PM Haven't you read the linked article? I asked about the tune because it does have archaic features - that descending shape isn't common in tunes of recent centuries (another one like it is Leith Wynd, first notated around 1700). |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: GUEST,Mike O'Leary-Johns Date: 14 Feb 16 - 04:46 PM I am sure I heard it said it was one of the most travelled songs. Having originated in Eastern Europe and travelled widely. Eventually reaching these shores. I sing the song myself...From the singing of Joe Heaney. That's why the comment stuck in my mind. Mike |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 14 Feb 16 - 05:01 PM Hi Jack, No I hadn't read the article. Some nice detail but it doesn't add anything to what we know. Did you write it? I couldn't possibly comment on the tune. You may well have something but even if the tune has some medieval traits it doesn't really say anything about the lyric. One thing seems certain to me: That extra verse on Lady Mary Ann was a recent poetic addition, probably Burns's contribution. It has nothing in common with the folk lyrics of the rest of the ballad. One of the most beautiful ballads in our language in my opinion, and a pity Child hadn't got it. It's top of my list for the ones that got away. Regarding Roy's comment about the 17thc reference, Roy did sometimes repeat things he'd seen in print and if Bert was the writer....say no more! |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jack Campin Date: 14 Feb 16 - 07:28 PM No, I didn't write it. Ian Pittaway (Stower here) did, and I think he did a good job. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: MGM·Lion Date: 15 Feb 16 - 12:42 AM "Having originated in Eastern Europe and travelled widely. Eventually reaching these shores." .,,. That is said by some of many songs & tales. There was even a book pub'd some years ago by some woman whose name eludes me [it might still be on my shelves somewhere at that, becoz I think I remember even having reviewed it somewhere], urging the thesis that every single one of our songs & tales has an identifiable ancient oriental analogue. There seems to be competition among some 'authorities' in endeavouring to outdo one another in the 'discovery' of ever more esoteric origins; + no shortage of publishers willing to air such absurdities in the public prints to what they appear to imagine to be an ∞·ly gullible readership.. Pinch-o'-salt time, if you ask me! Or, as someone remarked, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar! ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: GUEST,Dave Date: 15 Feb 16 - 04:22 AM As with all of Ian's articles it is well researched and presented. A comment that "it doesn't add anything to what we know" really isn't helpful, because a) some people did not know that at all, and b) Ian's articles present evidence, and then draw conclusions from the evidence, rather than trying to fit evidence around preconceived opinions. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 15 Feb 16 - 11:24 AM Completely agree with your 'pinch of salt' comment, Mike. Too much of this has gone on in the past. If there's any truth in it let's see the evidence. Apologies to Ian and Dave. I didn't mean to be dismissive. It is as you say well researched and presented and I have to agree with your second point. None of the ballads that are supposed to refer to a particular historic incident prior to 1700 get all the facts right. Probably because most of them were written well after that incident and are based on hearsay, so we should not be looking for full accuracy when looking for a ballad origin. All we really need is that enough of the facts fit that specific incident as opposed to any other known incident. So we can very rarely deal with precise matching details. We also need to factor in bias, often political bias. The ballad writers are just as fallible as the book authors, if not moreso. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jack Campin Date: 15 Feb 16 - 01:05 PM None of the ballads that are supposed to refer to a particular historic incident prior to 1700 get all the facts right. How about this ballad on the murder of Thomas Becket? http://www.campin.me.uk/Music/Songs/Becket.html It doesn't go into a lot of detail but surely the details it does provide are pretty much right? |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 15 Feb 16 - 01:17 PM Sorry, Jack, I meant ballads from oral tradition, which is what we usually talk about here. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 16 Feb 16 - 01:40 PM Thank you, Jack and Dave, for replying to Steve for me before I'd seen the comments. I must add, though, that I did a lot of work on the article to bring new research to the song in reply to the comments above that there's nothing new in it. The evidence is partly in the green links in the article. If anyone else has traced the birth and death records of the family to test the veracity of the claims that the song is about a real family, and thereby critiqued A. L. Lloyd's oft-repeated claims about the family circumstances, or given historical detail to show that the basis for the claim to the song being medieval has no basis whatever, then I'm certainly not aware of it. As I say in the article, the beautiful tune Martin Carthy uses is my tune, and I've never heard anyone do it quite like him, so I suspect the elongated refrains are his own invention. I'd like to know myself. If anyone has more information, I'd like to know. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 16 Feb 16 - 02:48 PM Like I said,Ian, 'some nice detail'. All I meant by 'not adding to our knowledge' was that most ballad scholars, if not all, are happy to accept the Craigton origin, but of course we welcome putting more meat on the bones. Anyone (IMO) nowadays who repeats anything Bert Lloyd claimed loses all credibility. I doubt if anyone has gone into the historical detail as much as you have and I certainly commend you for this unreservedly. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jack Campin Date: 17 Feb 16 - 10:14 AM Your version of the tune's opening phrase starts with an upward leap, which is normal for minor-mode tunes in the British Isles. The distinctive version I was thinking of doesn't - it starts high and descends, which is often thought of as an archaic melodic shape. The two tunes are obviously related but I'd bet the purely descending one is older. I wondered if there is any record of the tune being used for something else, maybe in a liturgical context. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 17 Feb 16 - 04:35 PM Jack, What is the main source of this tune that starts high and descends? I only know it from the singing of Ian Manuel but I think it comes ultimately from the Scottish travellers, Jeannie Robertson perhaps. I seem to remember Isobel Sutherland also sang it. For what it's worth, and I'm no expert on tunes and their origins, I think it is very uncharacteristic of ballads and if pushed would guess it had some sort of artistic origin in the 18th century. The few versions of the tune I've just looked at from Scottish sources (Greig-Duncan, Christie) don't appear to bear any resemblance and start low. As I've already said, I love the tune and think it fits the text beautifully despite the lack of minor key. As a little experiment I tried diddling it in jig time and it sounded remarkably like George Morris's The Moss o' Burreldale, Not the 'Tinker's Wadding' one. Perhaps that's where Morris got it from. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: GUEST,Mrr Date: 17 Feb 16 - 08:19 PM Fascinating. I never noticed before, but the looking over the castle wall at the three lads playing ball is the same as in the song where the protagonist has killed her children and it is their ghosts back playing... The Cruel Mother, I believe is one of the names of that ballad. Are there yet others where the lady looks over the castle wall and spies boys playing ball? |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 18 Feb 16 - 05:36 AM Thank you, Steve. If I've read your message right, you have read my article as backing the idea of ballad scholars that the song originates in the Urquhart story, whereas I go to great lengths with original research, with birth and death records linked in the article, to question the validity of this idea. The section about the family's story reads: "If we question the validity of Maidment's and Spalding's connection of the song with the Urquharts and stop trying so hard to find connections, it is by no means clear that The Young Laird of Craigstoun is based on true events. The song gives no specific names or dates; there is no evidence of a forced marriage in the family as there is in the song; no betrothal of a young woman to a boy; and therefore no one was sent away for education until he was old enough to marry. There was a marriage with a large age gap in the family [common enough], though not the same marriage as the imputed subject of the song and the gap was the reverse of that described in the ballad; and there was a father who died the year after the birth of his son. Put this way, the link of the ballad to an actual young laird of Craigstoun is either tenuous or highly confused. [*]If[*] the connection is real, the originating events have been overlaid with a thick patina of fantasy." And later: "Certainty is impossible but, as folk songs go, names like "Lady Mary Ann", "my lady Dundonald", and "young Craigstoun" could be as interchangeable in the development of a song as names of battlefields, seas and monarchs, and may be chosen at random from the living, the dead or the entirely fictitious, as was the Duke of Bedford." The beautiful tune is intriguing. Martin Carthy has a talent for digging out words and tunes others have missed, and also for adding his own words or melodies without comment or giving himself any credit. I wonder if that's what he did here. Certainly, I've not come across the tune quite he way he did it anywhere else. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 18 Feb 16 - 05:48 AM Hello, Mrr. I wonder what your specific interest is in the detail. If you can say, we may be able to answer your question more precisely. As I see it, the line you mention is one of those standardised wordings in traditional song that appears in many otherwise unrelated ballads, like the rolling eye, the slender waist, going to a lonesome valley, etc., etc. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: GUEST,Jack Campin Date: 18 Feb 16 - 07:46 AM What is the main source of this tune that starts high and descends? I only know it from the singing of Ian Manuel but I think it comes ultimately from the Scottish travellers, Jeannie Robertson perhaps. I first encountered it when singing round the piano with some friends of the family in New Zealand in the mid-60s - it was in a book they had, and I can't remember what. So it wasn't Jeannie Robertson who made it known. As you say, it's not what most ballad tunes do. It's still one of the standard patterns in Near Eastern music, but seems to have dropped out of currency further west. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 18 Feb 16 - 08:03 AM The tune Ian is using is in 'The New Penguin Book of English Folk Songs', collected by Lucy Broadwood from Mrs Joiner in Herefordshire. It was published in the Journal of the Folk-Song Society in 1915, so perhaps Martin got it from there. Is there somewhere we can see or hear the 'descending' tune that Jack Campin has mentioned? |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 18 Feb 16 - 10:58 AM Hi Brian, Yes, that's the well-known tune I used to hear a lot on the folk scene in the 60s. I can't say I remember Martin singing it. I will have a closer look for the source of the descending tune after the weekend. I have lots of recordings I can listen to of traditional singers. I'm a bit busy at the moment preparing for Saturday's Broadside Day in Manchester. Meanwhile it must be on one of Ian (Jock) Manual's 2 albums. Ian, Questioniing the validity of any theory is something dear to my own heart. However, as I said earlier a ballad written perhaps in the 18th century based on half remembered facts from a century earlier is a common occurrence. Until a better match comes forward for the song's origins it is enough to say the ballad could be based on the 1634 story even if some of the facts don't stand up to detailed scrutiny. I doubt very much if Johnny Armstrong, Earl of Cassilis Lady or any of the border ballads match up with the facts accurately. They have all been romanticised and politicised. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 18 Feb 16 - 11:01 AM See you in Manchester, Steve. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Mrrzy Date: 18 Feb 16 - 11:10 AM Stower, I just noticed it. And to me, looking over the castle wall may be general and spying boys playing ball may be general, but the two together seem a little more precise... and I think it interesting, sorry about the thread creep, this is a fascinating discussion on its own, but since we were dissecting the song, maybe not so creepy after all? The question of whether Trees Grow High was a *particular* arranged marriage had not occurred to me, but so many of the murder ballads I sing turn out to be about specific people when researched on the Mudcat, I would not be surprised if someone figured out whose. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 18 Feb 16 - 01:43 PM Hi Mrrzy, You were quite right to point this out and it is relevant. The thought had crossed my mind once or twice when listening to the song. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other ballads where the 2 motifs combine except for this one and The Cruel Mother so it could just be that the image of boys playing at ball was a common one and the looking over the castle wall is a widespread commonplace in ballads. However the English broadside ballad, The Cruel Mother (Child 20) is late 17th century and in Scotland it acquired stanzas from Child 21 during the 18th century, not found in any English versions, so the lifting of an image from Child 20 into our ballad here would not be at all surprising. The Gentry in Scotland and later Scots editors frequently moved material from one ballad into another so it was accepted practice. Personally I think many of the so-called commonplaces were the result of this mixing and matching rather than oral tradition. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 18 Feb 16 - 01:45 PM Good to see you in Manchester, Brian! I think I owe you a pint anyway. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 18 Feb 16 - 02:01 PM Almost certainly, Steve! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Mrrzy Date: 18 Feb 16 - 07:02 PM Coolio! |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: GUEST Date: 18 Feb 16 - 08:53 PM Child Maurice also has looking over the castle wall, and playing at the ball. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jack Campin Date: 18 Feb 16 - 09:38 PM This is the way I remember the descending tune (title from the first line, this is the last verse): X:1 T:Father dear father you've done to me great wrong M:6/8 L:1/8 K:EMin z | e2e e2e |d3 (dc)B|A2c B2 A|E3- E w:At the age of six-teen* he was a marr-ied man (EF)| G2G G2A |B2B (BA)G|A2B (AG)F|E3- E2 w:and* at the age of sev-en-teen* the fath-er of* a son z | e3 e2e |d3 dcB |A2c B2 A|E3- E w:At the age of eight-een the grass grew ov-er him z2 | E2F G2A |G2F E3 |D2D HE3 |B3- B2|| w:and* death* put an end to his grow-ing. z | e3 e3 |d3 (dc)B|A2c B2 A|E3- E w:Grow-ing, grow-ing,* the grass grew ov-er him z2 |(E2F) (G2A)|G2F E3 |D2D HE3 |B3- B2|] w:and* death* put an end to his grow-ing. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 18 Feb 16 - 10:05 PM Well, thank you all. What a very interesting discussion this is turning out to be. Brian, just to check, since I don't have a copy of 'The New Penguin Book of English Folk Songs' or The Journal of the Folk-Song Society in 1915 to look myself, is the tune I sing, derived from Martin Carthy, exactly (or near enough) as sung by Mrs Joiner in Herefordshire to Lucy Broadwood, with its elongated refrain, with that not added by Martin? If so, I will amend my article to say so. And thank you for pointing it out. Steve, you're quite right, of course: any ballad that gets its historical facts all correct isn't a ballad. It's in their nature to dramatise and fabricate. In that way, I think they're rather like cinematic treatments of, for example, William Wallace, not letting the facts get in the way of dramatic additions that sell the story (in both cases, literally sell the story). Then, of course, once the song enters the oral tradition, there are the inevitable mishearings, memory slips, pushing of perspectives and unconscious accretions from other ballads. It's just that, in the case of this song, the link with any actual person seems *so* tenuous that I wonder if it was ever truly there to begin with. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. Mrrzy, no apology necessary, and thank you for pointing out the link with playing boys and castle walls. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 19 Feb 16 - 07:57 AM Hi Stower. What you sing is a lot like the Carthy / Joiner version, except that you only repeat the word 'Growing' once, instead of twice. Carthy's 'Trees' Here's the Joiner tune, in Lucy Broadwood's hand, from The Full English (click on thumbnail for image). If that is indeed Martin's source then he has spun out the first long note in the refrain for an additional bar. Mrs Joiner's 'Trees' I've now been through all of the English tunes in Full English - a cursory search, not definitive by any menas - and I can tell you that, although there are lots of variants to more or less the same tune (although it moves between dorian, mixolydian and ionian modes), very few of them have a refrain of any kind, and sometimes that's just a repeat of the last line. There's one tune from Frank Kidson's MS that looks like it might have the 'Growing... Growing' refrain, but there are no words set to it as far as I can find. Oh hang on, I've found it in the Folk Song Society Journal for 1906 with the words, and it's not that refrain. Interesting one, though. In fact there are all kinds of good ' alternative' versions of the song out there if you go looking. Thanks, Jack, for the abc of the descending tune. I can't see anything like that in Full English either - in fact what it looks like is an altered version of the Joiner tune. If I had to guess I'd say that it's a revival adaptation, possibly deliberate, possibly not. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 19 Feb 16 - 08:03 AM Regarding ball games, Mrs Joiner's 'Trees' actually has 'playing at bat and ball', although most of the others just have 'playing at ball'. Perhaps cricket was popular in Herefordshire at the time. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Jim Carroll Date: 19 Feb 16 - 08:47 AM Surely the most spectacular version of the song was that MacColl sand on the Riverside series - Pat once sang it in a singing session during the Willie Clancy School here in Miltown Malbay back in the seventies Half an hour later, Seamus Ennis came in and a singer from Cork said to him: "This woman has a beautiful version of "Long a-Growing". Without hesitation, Ennis replied "I have a better one". That was Seamus for you Jim Carroll The trees they are ivied, the leaves they are green, The times they are past that we hae seen; In the lang winter nicht, it's I maun lie my lane For my bonnie laddie's lang, lang a-growing. "O faither, dear farther, ye had dune me muckle wrang, For you hae wedded me to a lad that's ower young; For he is but twelve and I am thirteen, And my bonnie laddie's lang, lang a-growing. " "O dochter, dear dochter, I hae dune ye nae rang, For I hae wedded you tae a noble lord's son; And he shall be the laird and you shall wait on, And a' the time your lad'll be a-growing. " "O faither, dear faither, if ye think it will fit, We'll send him tae the scule for a year twa yet, And we'll tie a green ribbon aroon aboot his bonnet And that'll be a token that he's married. "O faither, dear faither, and if it pleases you, I'll cut my lang hair abune my broo; And vestcoat and breeks I'll gladly put on, And 1 tae the scule will gang wi' him." She's made him a sark o' the holland sae fine, And she has skew'd it wi' her fingers ain, And ay she loot the tears doon fall, Saying, "My bonnie laddie's lang, lang a-growing." In his twelfth year he was a married man, And in his thirteenth he had gotten her a son, And in his fourteenth his grave it grew green, And that put an end tae his growing |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: GUEST,Dave Date: 19 Feb 16 - 11:34 AM Ian, do you really mean Herefordshire rather than Hertfordshire, or is that just a typo. Brian's link says Chiswell Green, Hertfordshire. The earliest reference to cricket in Hertfordshire is from 1732, but it wasn't ever really well established there (even now its only a minor county). Before the 1830s cricket was really only popular south of the Thames. Some variant of rounders is probably more likely. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 19 Feb 16 - 12:21 PM Oops, it was me that misread 'Hertfordshire'. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Mrrzy Date: 19 Feb 16 - 01:12 PM In one version, the boy is a Geordie's son, I think... if that helps with the identification of the initial marriage. But that could be a mondegreen. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 19 Feb 16 - 02:57 PM Guest, Child Maurice, not really. It does have the commonplace looking over the castle wall but depending on which version you look at she either sees Child Maurice's severed head or has it thrown into her lap and Steward tells her she can use it as a ball. Not quite the same thing though as 4 and 20 ladies playing at the ball, indeed somewhat opposite. As this cruel taunt is not in the 17th century English version some Scottish poetaster was possibly influenced by one or other of our 2 ballads under discussion. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Stower Date: 19 Feb 16 - 05:25 PM Brian, thank you so much for being so helpful and thorough. When I arranged the song I deliberately didn't look it up, just to see what came out in the process. In the past I've sung Martin Carthy's version, Walter Pardon's and one I found in a book but now can't remember which, and suspected I would unconsciously amalgamate something from all. As I remember it, Walter truncated the lines of the melody somewhat, but I had no idea I'd done the same to Mrs. Joiner's / Martin's melody until you pointed it out. I'm very grateful, and will amend the article with the new information. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Mrrzy Date: 20 Feb 16 - 12:03 AM (I'm reminded of the ghostly guards choosing up sides to kick the queen around the hall with her head tucked underneath her arm) |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 21 Feb 16 - 03:32 PM Still looking for the origins of the descending tune. It's a very marked abba tune if that's any help. (And no, it's not called 'Waterloo' before some smartarse quips in) |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 21 Feb 16 - 04:00 PM If you're talking about the same tune Jack gave us as an abc, Steve, it looks like ABAB to me. It also looks very like the Joiner tune with the first phrase of the refrain copied and pasted as the first and third lines of the verse - and more and more like a revival creation. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 22 Feb 16 - 05:37 PM The performances I remember were definitely abba. I don't do abc so I'm not sure how Jack's tune goes. I'll have another go at finding it. Pretty sure it was Scottish although I have heard Irish singers sing it this way. The descent is on the first 6 notes 'Oh the trees they do grow' drops an octave in the first 5 notes. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 22 Feb 16 - 05:47 PM Okay, found it. I don't think Isabel Sutherland sang any revival creations though I don't know yet where she got it. It sounds very Jeannie Robertson style to me. You can hear it on the BLSA website or just Google 'Isabel Sutherland Bonny Boy' and go to the British Library option. I think it is a Peter Kennedy recording. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 23 Feb 16 - 04:47 AM My first attempt to Google 'Isabel Sutherland Bonny Boy' got me to a chap playing 'I Once Had a Boy' on the euphonium (rather well, actually), but I finally tracked down the BL recording. Not the same as Jack's abc, but I recognized it immediately. No, that one doesn't sound like a revival recreation. I don't have a great library of Scots song books, or Greig Duncan etc, but I've got the Lizzie Higgins version and it's not that. Is it possible Isabel Sutherland was the source? I don't know much about her own sources. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 23 Feb 16 - 01:31 PM AS I said, Ian Jock Manuel sang it and most of his sources were the Scots travellers, Jimmie McBeath, Davy Stewart. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Steve Gardham Date: 23 Feb 16 - 02:22 PM Jim Carroll has been on this thread once already and tis 2 recordings of his that have the very tune. Brian, go to the Songs of Clare website and look for the Tom Lenihan recording (Milltown Malbay) and Vincie Boyle (Mullagh). If I remember rightly Ian Manuel was born in Belfast but brought up in Glasgow. Plenty of Irish influence there. So perhaps despite Jock and Isabel we were looking in the wrong place. |
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Subject: RE: The trees they do grow high: medieval? From: Brian Peters Date: 23 Feb 16 - 02:37 PM Mystery solved, well done Steve. |
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