BS: Ley-Lines

Subject: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 10:21 AM

In the pub after bellringing practice recently (quenching the thirst after righteousness) we had an interesting discussion about ley-lines, dowsing and stone-sexing (!). That last I'd never come across before, but apparently "Wally from round the corner" goes out into the nearby Peak District (England, we're talking about), lays his hands on stones – I'm not clear on the details - and pronounces them male or female. Yes, well...

I seemed to be in a minority of 1 in pronouncing the whole lot to be nonsense, so I thought I'd see what was the opinion of my new chums at the Mudcat on the subject.

For what they're worth, here are my views:

LEY-LINES: I should have thought that scattering significant erections (to coin a phrase) at random across England would have allowed straight lines to be drawn through a number of them. I have done no research to discover whether there are enough exceptions off accepted ley-lines to make a random disposition a valid argument. If there are few exceptions, then I have to admit that I've no explanation for the linear disposition. However, talk of "suble earth energies" along the ley-lines, peaking at intersections, makes me reach for my gun (who'm I misquoting here? can't remember).

DOWSING: Whilst I can accept that the presence of water below ground could have a physical effect (magnetism? static? subliminal mechanical vibration?) on a dowser's brain, I reject the possibility of any effect large enough to overcome a dowser's muscles on a forked stick (or wire, or whatever). And the concept of (eg) dowsing for water miles from the actual site using a pendulum over a map I reject also.

STONE-SEXING: must be as near to bollox as makes no difference. If someone pronounces this particular stone to be male, that female, there can be no objective argument otherwise. If there is anything in this at all (which I seriously doubt), I suspect that "male"/"female" are being used as synonyms for something which would be better labelled with a physical description (eg "with magnetic axis tending to the vertical/horizontal" – note the eg: I'm making a suggestion not pronouncing definitively).

GENERAL: There are 3 possibilities: 1) All these effects are figments of fevered imaginations (this is the explanation I go for, but I have a problem with the ley-lines, if they are more than random). 2) These effects may be exaggerated in the telling, but there are such effects and they have a physical explanation (one that science could measure and describe). 3) There is a supernatural agency at work; I don't think I've anything more to say on this point, before some input from you lot, whose deep erudition has already impressed me no end.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 10:33 AM

Yo L'Aigle--what in bloody heck are you talking about?

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From:
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 10:42 AM

Could it be possible that the concept of ley lines arose from the observation of remnants of Roman roads? During the dark ages uneducated folk could have seen these straight tracks running across the country, many of them going nowhere obvious and attributed supernatural origins to them.

Dowsing, now there's an interseting one. As you say it could be possible for water to have a physical effect. However I have seen staged demonstrations fail miserably. The continued belief in the process could be due to the fact that there is a lot of water underground (ask any tunnelling engineer) so that random digging is often sufficient to hit water.

Stone sexing. Someone is pulling your pisser.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 10:44 AM

"There are more thing under heaven and earth..." No comment. I didn't believe in ghosts until the night my grandfather sat down in my dorm room....15 years after he had died.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Llanfair
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 10:47 AM

Having seen dowsing done, accurately, I believe that the dowser has a sensitivity to magnetism, water, whatever, and slight changes in muscle tone cause the dowsing rods to move.
You cannot live in Wales and not believe that the ancient tracks and magical sites exist.There is so much evidence, if you are able to look for it intelligently. Here in Llanfair, there is a healing well that was here long before the church that stands nearby. I am certain that there are Ley lines here, and that they are extremely powerful.
Sexing stones? I think someone was extracting the Michael!!!!
Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 10:57 AM

Stone sexing? Why? What would an igneous intrusion be? Or the Marianas Trench? I guess volcanoes are stone climaxes.

Subduction leads to Orogeny, or is it the other way round?

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Áine
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 11:16 AM

Of course stones have sex -- how else could they be ley(d) on the lines??? And about the dowsing -- don't you take a good bath afterwards???

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 11:50 AM

I like that Sophocleese! Can't add much about ley lines, however I have witnessed some dowsing that does leave me still open minded on the subject.

We live in an area of drilled water wells, all of varying depths and of different water production rates. Many years ago, when we first decided to build here, we had our property doused, as the $15.00 fee did not seem exhorbitant to cover all bases. It was worth the price of admission for the entertainment value alone. We watched the old fellow's theatrics as he pulled out his velvet lined case and bolted together his aluminum witching rods and explained that he was also hired by oil drilling companies to locate oil? . He found two promising sites, one where we hoped to put the well in the first place. We had it drilled and got a good supply of water at 150 feet.
Our neighbour, who owned the well drilling rig, had recently done a well on his property and as price was no object, drilled where he decided he wanted his well. At 700 feet he still had hardly enough water to run a household, and subsequently re-drilled another well a few years later, after having it doused, I might add. He still had to drill a very deep well, but he did get a good water supply. The varying well depths in our area (60 to 750 feet) and rates of 1 and 1/2 to 20 gallons per minute, would tend to dispell the idea that there is underground water everywhere, in equal abundance. These wells are also all in the same rock formation and of close proximity. The ones that were doused, do seem to be the most productive here. Hence, I won't rule out the value of water witching.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 11:59 AM

Yeah, but what do you base your certainty on, Llanfair? Does your watch stop in certain ley-line proximities, eg, or is it just "ancient lore says so"? I've got a lot of sympathy for that, but wd like some hard evidence

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:04 PM

Hey,if dowsing worked for Grandpappy Amos McCoy,it MUST be true!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:10 PM

Of course stone sexing happens--and from what I've see, they musy do it a lot--where do you think pebbles and gravel come from?

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:13 PM

I like to rise when the sun she rises,
Early in the morning
I like to hear them small birds singing,
Merrily upon the ley-lines
, And hurrah for the life of a country boy
And to ramble in the new mown hay.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:15 PM

Dunno about stone sexing, but I recall a few years back when the US had a moderate-sized problem of pet rocks being abandoned by their owners, and going feral. Caused rocklslides, avalanches and other life-threatening manifestations. I wonder if they bred?

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:16 PM

Are you sure, Wolfgang? I've never seen it in print before. When it's sung, it sounds like "merrily upon the LAYLUM", and nobody I've ever asked has known what the folk it meant

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:34 PM

Just thought of another...

I dreamed a dream the other night.

Ley-lines away, my John

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 01:11 PM

ever noticed how the birds will line up on SOME power lines and not others??? Was told once it depended on how closely the wires related to ley-lines, the closer to following the leylines, the more birds would roost....

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 01:38 PM

Bald Eagle, sorry, I made up the 'ley-lines'. I have seen lay-land and laylum and don't know what it means. Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 01:59 PM

it means fallow land. land that has been set aside to "rest" between crops. [and I've seen it as "laying" also....]

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 02:00 PM

Classical mythology tells us of tree-beings, usually female, so I don't see why there mightn't be rock-beings, male or female, as readily as there might be the tree-beings.

What is needed, of course, is much more research into the anatomy, physiology, and behavior of the fairy-folk. We still don't even know why Elves react so badly to iron. Is elf-blood red ? Then their blood must be hemoglobin-based, meaning that they must get iron in some form. Is it just metallic iron that they can't abide ? Is iron to them as selenium is to us, necessary in tiny amounts and poisonous otherwise ? Or is their blood silver-based, rather than iron-based ? These lines of inquiry are shockingly under-funded. Indeed, the science of longaevology is so primitive that a clear answer to the question of the sex of rock-elves may have to wait many years.

T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 02:08 PM

"cold iron" ---wrought by man, not just iron the element....just as sodium is necessary to homo sapiens health -- but you wouldn't want to go touching metallic sodium, now would you?

hemoglobin I would say could safely fall outside of the "cold iron" classification.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 02:17 PM

T, don't you go getting them elves all riled up. Max has a hard enough time keeping them in line as it is. And judging by the dozens of empty boxes lying around the office, I think that the red coloring in their blood is most likely pizza sauce.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 02:27 PM

and obviously a pizza-sauce based blood system would, rather then transporting oxygen and carbon-dioxide, would transport garlic and oregano?

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 02:30 PM

Hold the anchovies though.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 05:05 PM

Ley lines were here before the romans, stones are all male because they are always in the wrong place (under the wheel, in the garden), and elves have haemogoblin in their blood.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 05:24 PM

Only the rolling ones are males, the others are moss 'gatherers'

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Áine
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 05:34 PM

So, Bert my dear, does that mean that you would LOVE to be stuck in between a rock and a hard place????? Ya devil ya!!

May your stones keep on a rollin', Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: alison
Date: 08 Dec 99 - 08:04 PM

If you want to see some evidence of ley lines.... get hold of a map of a small area of the UK or Ireland, (if you can get one of Glastonbury you'll have great fun... there are heaps of lines on it)

then find anything ancient.... stone circle, standing stone, rath, curch whatever... and draw a straight line between the two.. then extend that line out... it is amazing how many other similar structures will be along or close to the same line.

fascinating stuff........

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: alison
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 02:16 AM

Info on ley lines

more detailed info

places considered to be at intersections of ley lines

have fun

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 05:27 AM

MMario: many thanks for the explanation. I can see it's correct.

Wolfgang: thanks, too. I think I knew your tongue was in your cheek

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 07:08 AM

a link to a skeptical view. Click on 'dictionary', then 'L', then 'ley lines'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:02 AM

My father, many years ago, albeit in an attempt to de-bunk ley-lines, got out the local OS map (1" to the mile), and asked my mother to stick a pin, at random, into the bottom right hand corner of Essex. The name of the village she pierced began with "S". My father then chose a village in the north west of the county that also began with the same letter. The line drawn between the two covered 30 miles of ground, and bisected 11 villages that began the letter "S", and countless other unifying features.

I lived bang next to an ancient church on Mendip for 9 years. One day, a hippy banged on the door to ask me if I was aware that I lived on one of the most significant ley-lines that the addled minds of Glastonbury had yet come up with. "Nope". I think it was the Tor to Silbury Hill, or somesuch. I may not sound it, but I am spiritually open minded, and I certainly didn't feel any cosmic influence, postive or negative. I moved to the yellow belly region of North Lincolnshire. I'm in this really cooking session at the local, and this other hippy up and tells me ...... yup, I live on a ley-line. Something about a Mott and Bailey on the Humber bank, and Thornton Abbey. What my socked and sandled friend did not know was that I live on the site of an unrecognised mediaeval priory, credited to Saint Chad, one of the holy brothers of Lindisfarne, who evangelised the North Humber Land. Again, no occasions of cosmic activity.

So my question to the leyliners is.... When did all this mumbo jumbo start and finish, assuming that finding a local branch of Sainsburys on a percieved line is not a cosmic coincidence? After all, we were bunging up churches and cathedrals right up to the Reformation that some eejit will claim start or finish lines, and that was a gnat's whisker of 500 years ago. Is there a demonstrable mathematic pattern to council house erection? Probably.

My answer is that man evolved the straight line, and has been fascinated with it ever since, and the natural order is chaos.

I think "Life of Brian" is perhaps the nost succinct study of the spiritually gullible hailing random connections. "It's a sign!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: alison
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:46 AM

Hahaha... love it skipjack......

For anyone who gets the chance to visit Glastonbury... it really is fascinating to see the people who believe in the ley lines in a frenzy... we watched people crawling up the sides of the Tor ears to the ground..... I don't know what they were listening for..... others with their divining rods.......

For anyone into people watching... you get some weird ones in that area.....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 09:33 AM

I'm sure there are as many ley-lines in Britain as there are straight-sided canals on Mars.

T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Wurkman
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 12:49 PM

Skipjack et moi share the same father. But now here's some news. We've just had a leyline installed in our High Street. Goes right past my door. Then this geezer knocks and asks whether we want to connect. You betcha, I say. Now we can get leyed any time we want.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Jacob Bloom
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:09 AM

I recall seeing The Watersons perform Country Life a number of years ago. Nora Waterson said, "The word laylem in the chorus means: a chorus."

I'm glad I looked at this thread. It's been very educational. Before I looked at it, I figured it was a discussion of what to do about funny tanning lines after vacationing in Hawaii (I guess that would be lei lines.)

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:24 AM

"Merrily upon the leylem(=chorus)"? Norma Waterson might have said that, but it doesn't make sense to me. Lay-land in the sense of MMario above makes more sense.
But then the Watersons sometimes were not so correct with what they were singing. Think of Mike Waterson singing "she's my universal woman" in "Swansea town" simply from mishearing "search the universe all over" in his source.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Jacob Bloom
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:48 AM

I think the Watersons sang it as "merrily upon their laylem." But you're right, that doesn't prove anythin by itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:54 AM

I see, Jacob, with "their" it would make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 12:42 PM

The first Churches were built on sites already significant to the religions of the time and area, which is why you get churchyards that have yew trees in them older than the building, lots of towers on ley lines and why the church in Avebury is outside the circle, rather than common belief (and Christian propganda) would have it, at the centre. The pub is at the centre of the circle as near as buggery and a very nice pub it is too.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Marymac90
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 12:44 PM

I'm glad I read this thread because I found old friend Jacob Bloom. Jacob-how are you? I haven't seen or heard from you since the last time I saw you at Heritage! Please email me at [e-mail] I'd love to hear how you're doing. Mary McCaffrey

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 01:34 PM

LTS, that goes back to my Roman road theory. Many church towers were built on Roman roads because the road provided a good foundation. Many house builders did the same. That's why you can be driving along in England and see a church tower dead ahead along the road when you get to the town you find that the road makes a sharp bend to avoid the tower.

I used to pass an old house going to work in Essex, the road went straight for the house and did a quick hairpin around the house and resumed it's original course on the other side. One day there was a tarp draped over the front of the house. And sure enough there was another one on the other side. A lorry had driven right through the house and out the other side.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 01:39 PM

Talking of Mike Waterson and his - shall we say - less-than-correctnesses, didn't he write the song "Bright Phoebus", which contains "Today bright Phoebus she shined down on me...". Classically, of course, Phoebus (the sun) was male, whereas Phoebe (th moon) was female.

But it's a good song

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Ringer
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 01:41 PM

So you're English, Bert. That explains why you knew all the words to "Little White Bull". *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 02:17 PM

Yup. But I'm American now.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:11 PM

What made you go Septic, Bert? I love Essex, wish I worked there.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:24 PM

I left England for various reasons.
1. I met an American Woman
2. I was denied a vote in the Commomn Market referendum because I worked overseas.
3. Last time I looked for a job in England I was offered a jpb with British Rope as a senior designer and the local dairy offered me more money to deliver milk.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:27 PM

The woman sounds best!

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Bert
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:56 PM

Yep, she was pretty good.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Áine
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 06:05 PM

Now see, Bert, what you should have done was stay in England and learn how to tie knots in cheese -- You'd be a millionaire by now!!

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 07:24 PM

Skipjack, what is the origin of "go septic" as a locution for joining the Yankee nation ? Is it from the Latin word for North America, America SEPTemtrionalis. ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 07:38 PM

Naaaaaaaaaa, Mate.

Septic Tank ............. Yank!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 07:41 PM

Aine, is that a Mouse Hunt reference. I've just sat through it with the children, Larf!!!! It was bloody great!

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Áine
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 09:10 PM

Yes it was, Skipjack!! I didn't anyone would get it -- good on ya! That is about the strangest 'happy' ending I've ever seen in a film.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 12:44 PM

A world without string is chaos.

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 03:57 AM

But is it a scruffy piece? No, 'fraid not.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Ley-Lines
From: Skipjack
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 07:42 AM

Frayed Knot?