BS: Demise of the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:10 AM

Corbyn's statement was reasonable and conciliatory. Of course, there are plenty of empty-headed opportunist hawks around him who will jump on his every word. There was no equivalence between ISIS and Israel in that comment whatsoever. For that, you'd be saying that Israel is like ISIS. Which was neither said nor implied. If you disagree, explain it in your own words, not by some unlinked reference to a a gutter newspaper in Israel.

I note that Shami Chakrabarti's report did not find Labour to be awash with racism, as Keith and Bobad hoped it would. Wonder what she'd find in the Tory party or the Church of England. Or Keith's favourite, UKIP. The mind boggles.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:06 AM

"Just answer his points if you can, and hold the abuse when you can't."
As usual Keith, you have been answered over and over again - the fact that you have been given the answers that don't suit you is your problemIt is you who refuses to respond to what is put up - as usual.
You and Bobad are a pair of racist Antisemites who have chosen to Attack a democratically elected leadership riding Israel's propaganda bike and have made up some of your own propaganda on the way - says it all really!!.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:00 AM

Steve,
Your suspect-Islamophobe credentials are, after all, well known to us here

No they are not. I have never so much as criticised Islam or any other religion. That is just another smear.

Come on, Keith, tell us why we should respect a single word he says.

You don't.
Just answer his points if you can, and hold the abuse when you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:53 AM

makes equivalence between Israel and ISIS.

Only in your mind, Boo - your English comprehension skills need work.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:53 AM

2Do you think Fidel Castro built his society on tolerance and compassion."
Not tolerance certainly - too near the U.S. to take that chance (87 attempts to assassinate Castro).
Compassion is a different matter altogether
Prior to the Revolution, Cuba was a place where American tourists went to see stage performances of Cuban women being fucked by donkeys, it was referred to as "America's open sewer".
Despite decades of Trade embargo, attempted invasions, and the constant threat from the world's most powerful nation, the Castro regime has improved the lot of the Cuban people, has and education system the envy of the Third World (fancy educating slaves!!!) and a health service also regarded as among the best among nations in a similar situation and with Cuba's history.
The people of Vietnam are probably still traumatised by having burning jellified petrol and cancer-causing chemicals poured on them for nearly half a century by the "tolerant and compassionate" Yanks.
I don't suppose for one moment you'll even bother acknowledging any of this, so much is your concern for "tolerance and compassion!!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:48 AM

Going well, all this.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:44 AM

From the Times of Israel:

Israel's Labor leader Herzog slams Jeremy Corbyn's 'betrayal of Labour values, hatred of Israel'; Lapid urges Labor to sever ties with UK counterpart, so long as 'anti-Semitism'-spouting Corbyn is in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:40 AM

Oops, Herr Corbyn puts his foot into it again, makes equivalence between Israel and ISIS.

From the Independant:

"Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those various self-styled Islamic states or organisations".


Sam Stopp, a Labour councillor in Wembley, said Mr Corbyn had compared Israel to Isis, writing on Twitter: "For that alone, he should resign. I am red with fury."

Ruth Smeeth, the Labour MP for Stoke-on-Trent North and Kidsgrove, who is Jewish, reportedly left the event in tears after a member of the Momentum group "accused her of colluding with the Daily Telegraph".

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:03 AM

a strong charismatic leader and winner....

Like The Trumpshit!

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:10 AM

Stalin wasn't that bad a bloke really...
Just what the Labour party needs..
a strong charismatic leader and winner.... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:04 AM

Ake - these are socialist societies in name only, not practice, and very few socialists in this country would want a dictatorship or authoritarian regime in charge of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:49 AM

why can you not just answer his points?

Well, Professor, because it would be just about as productive as debating with a Holocaust denier, and would legitimize his bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:41 AM

Do you think Fidel Castro built his society on tolerance and compassion.......Or the People of Vietnam?

When fighting the system you have to fight it tooth and claw......remember Mr Blair's tolerant society.....It brought us war and rabid privatisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:37 AM

"Whatever impression you have of Bobad as a person, why can you not just answer his points?"
Whatever impression you have of Bobad as a person, why can you not just answer his points?"
Because he is an antisemitic racist troll - I try not to respond to trolls of any persuasion (present company accepted, of course).
You asked exactly the same question about his epic scanning of half a dozen pages lifted directly from the Islamophobic/racist Muslim Watch filth
You and he have made yourself an active part of the Israeli propaganda attack on British democracy - patriots - who'd have them!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 07:04 AM

Damn, I'm sure that I'm a socialist anymore. I haven't drifted to the right like so many old white people have, but I'm not sure that any of the political ideologies extant provide any answers to the problems our society faces.

I'd love a genuine anti-establishment candidate and party to exist, but there isn't one. Corbyn is the closest we have but he's a thinker, not a leader. We need someone to challenge the culture of the Little Englanders, xenophobia and 'me first' attitude that is nurtured by unaccountable media moguls, global corporations and their political shills and the elite and establishment of a now totally dead empire.

I just don't know. I think perhaps a local, community-based approach is the way forward, encompassing the local economy, the social and heritage sectors and redefining our indentities at a local, even parochial level so we can find our place in the wider world whilst preserving our core values of equality, tolerance, compassion and the joy of a country that enjoys it's own diversity and welcoming to all who want to live here.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 06:27 AM

Kindly spell out what "points" you wish me to address, Keith. Until you do, and quite possibly after you do, by defending him you tar yourself with the same racist, bigoted brush as he is. Your suspect-Islamophobe credentials are, after all, well known to us here. As for getting old, etc., pfr, well he sounds to me like a petulant thirteen-year-old who's copycatting out the same brainless racism as his racist school chums. And let's never forget, in spite of the indulgent and forgiving nature of our mods, that this person only stopped cheating us with his secret dual identities when he was forced to by the rule change. That is not a claim from me, that is confirmed. Come on, Keith, tell us why we should respect a single word he says. You want to put yourself in bed with liars and cheats, so let me turn it round on you and challenge YOU to tell us what opinions he has that you agree with. Until then, kindly stop asking us to "address his points." You may as well ask me to list Saddam's good attributes.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 06:08 AM

"I am not a "liberal", but a Socialist so can see both sides."

I'm sorry Ake, but you're arguments show are not a socialist. A Socialist would never, ever support Farage as you have on these threads. He is polar opposite of a socialist: regressive, xenophobic, devoid of tolerance, compassion and bereft of intellectual integrity but full of guile and deceit.


No socialist would ever, ever offer support for that odious, lying old soak.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:42 AM

I wonder if Bobad understands the term "a figure of speech" in relation to calling someone "our friends"

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:16 AM

Whatever impression you have of Bobad as a person, why can you not just answer his points?
Abuse is cheap and means nothing.
Do you challenge those quotes he gave from Corbyn and Johnson?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:57 AM

Labour needs to learn the recent lessons of The Irish Labour Party who voluntarily eclipsed itself out of existence by throwing its support behind right-wing parties.
The British Labour Party has been under attack from the Antisemitic
, extreme right-wing Israeli dirty-tricks campaign and those Antisemites (led by Bobad and his ilk), all all present and correct of this thread - no problem in choosing sides here - you only have to look at the old usuals.
Labour many need stronger leadership (always a suspicions phrase when you look back at Hitler, Pinochet and his friend Thatcher and such 'strong leaders' of the past, but above all, it needs principle and compassion based on the old values.
The mob of careerist jackals at present scrabbling for leadership is the last thing Britain or Labour needs.
I stopped voting altogether when Blair's sun rose - he reduced Britain's politics to the Tweedledum-Tweedledee level in one fell swoop
Had I still been in Britain I might have reversed that decision with the advent of Corbyn - a new broom with real values and compassion long lacking in British politics.
Without and alternative Britain is heading for racist-based isolationism and a same-as-ever social policy of continuing to make the less-well-off pay.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:51 AM

Looking from a "liberal" stance, Bobad has a point, I suppose that is why none of you challenge his actual statements.

I am not a "liberal", but a Socialist so can see both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:58 PM

.. I suppose bobad's random spurts of bile do serve one useful purpose...

..at the very least he reminds me why I should strive to not grow old and bitter wallowing in hate & resentment...


cheers bob.... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:39 PM

Well, you certainly don't stand up for the labour movement (you have been crowing over the problems of the Labour Party), anti-racism (the precise opposite in fact), enlightenment (you don't know the meaning of the word) or reason (you're a blind bigot). And you certainly don't stand up for honest dealing with people, as you've shown repeatedly on this forum with your secret second identity.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:35 PM

Do you absolutely HAVE to post that puke, Boo? Can't you just give it a rest for once?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:18 PM

Jeremy Corbyn speaking as patron of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign 2009: "It will be my pleasure and honor to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I've also invited our friends from Hamas to come and speak as well"

Of course, in addition to their antisemitism, both groups, as Professor Alan Johnson has noted, oppose "everything the labour movement has ever stood for: trade union rights, freedom of speech and organisation, women's equality, gay and lesbian rights, anti-racism, the enlightenment, and reason".

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:17 PM

London bus syndrome.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 08:53 PM

Troll. Doubtless I'll get a PM telling me that you're harmless really and that the mods mildly disagree with you but that your voice must be heard. You're disgusting and you blight this forum constantly with your racist bile. And you're a forum cheat to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 08:53 PM

Troll. Doubtless I'll get a PM telling me that you're harmless really and that the mods mildly disagree with you but that your voice must be heard. You're disgusting and you blight this forum constantly with your racist bile. And you're a confirmed forum cheat to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:52 PM

Oh, I wouldn't feel sorry for him as I'm sure his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah will find something to accommodate him.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:44 PM

So should he stay or should he go? As a non Labour supporter I don't have to make a choice. What do you lot think?

I never thought I'd say this but I'm beginning to feel quite sorry for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 04:10 PM

The Benns have been very good at dividing the labour party, however i think Tony was sincere whereas his son is a career politician.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 04:05 PM

Corbyn seems to have found himself a band!!!
Screaming Lord Corbyn & The Savages!

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 01:32 PM

They won't be here legally any more once the UK is not bound by EU conventions.

More to the point, the people who voted for the UKIP racists wanted them out, and won't be satisfied until the freight wagons start rolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Brian May
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 01:00 PM

"Who said anything about deportation? The migrants who arrived here under "free movement" are here quite legally and will not be deported.

More scaremongering!!"

Correct.

There isn't half a lot of absolute bollocks being spoken by people of all opinions flavoured by either political hue!

I truly believe as yet, nobody knows what's going to happen next. When a leader finally emerges from the morass, we may get somewhere.

We await the results of the two party's feeding frenzy (generally known as leadership contests).

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 12:32 PM

Who said anything about deportation? The migrants who arrived here under "free movement" are here quite legally and will not be deported.

More scaremongering!!

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:22 AM

The SWP regarded entryism as a disastrous strategy and had nothing but contempt for Trotskyist fractions (like Militant and the IMG) who tried it. Les is seriously misinformed.

On the other hand, the SWP was prepared to take part in united front groupings, of which the anti-racist movements of the 1980s were the most successful. Labour Party members with no Trotskyist affiliation have to take a lot of the credit for what they achieved. But that doesn't happen any more, and it's Labour that failed. If they had been prepared to give the UKIP racists the same sort of kicking the National Front got, we wouldn't now have over a million European citizens living in the UK facing deportation. The sheer gutlessness of Labour's response to the racists' campaign beggars belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:02 AM

I'd rather have a Red in my Bed... Cor.. those Welsh socialist women.....

My mum warned me about them.... now I'm married to one.... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:42 AM

Cor ................ those Bolsheviks are everywhere! Help! Help! panic everyone !!

It said on the Brexit battlebus that the money saved by leaving the EU would be used for the NHS doesn't mean it's going to happen though, does it.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:34 AM

Most of the placards at the Corbyn rally outside Westminster the other night were SWP.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 06:49 AM

Keith is spot on. You only have to look at posters and stuff at Labour Party events to see that the SWP (3 men + a dog) supplies these posters and placards via some secret deal with print unions.

Although I am more convinced by the rumour that the SWP is a recipient of Heritage Lottery Funding, The National Trust and the selling of very small parts of Trotsky's body.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 06:06 AM

Cor ............. are there reds under the beds????

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 05:34 AM

Why does Momentum and SWP need the Labour party?
Because they are unelectable and need it as a vehicle and a disguise.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 05:00 AM

There was an interesting comment from one of the momentum supporters yesterday. He said there was no cult of Jeremy but there is a cult for what he stands for. You may or may not agree that what he stands for is desirable, but that would be to miss the point. Any leader who rejects that position will not have their support. And also anyone who has that stance but "is more of a leader" than Jeremy would get it.

Until that person arrives, they will stick with Jeremy.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 02:47 AM

Of course Teribus is correct, but what is the point of Socialists returning another "Blairite" government.

Probably the odious Benn has the best "chance" of forming a Quisling government, but it would only last till the money ran out and the Tories took over again.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 02:15 AM

"Is there anyone here who would seriously try to tell me that any of those three would stand a better chance of winning the next election than Jeremy Corbyn?"

Yes - Me.

Your three potential candidates all stand a better chance of winning the next election purely by dint of the fact that none of them is Jeremy Corbyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 01:44 AM

Well so far I've heard Angela Eagle, Tom Watson and Yvette Cooper mentioned as potential replacements. Is there anyone here who would seriously try to tell me that any of those three would stand a better chance of winning the next election than Jeremy Corbyn?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: ripov
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 07:54 PM

probably I shall dip in and then disappear - life givs me those options and bugger all else.
1. Bonzo refers to 34 resignations - good, the party is cleansing itself. Jeremy doesn't even have to do anything.
2. Why do certain people complain about jeremy not being prime minister material, when no-one with any sense would put the existing bunch of blairites in the position of needing a prime minister anyway?
3. Why has he started ironing his shirts? Is that the start of the rot?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 02:21 PM

.. also remembering back to the 80s when yuppie PR gurus started imposing a culture of suits and ties on the Labour Party..

well.. f@ck 'em..!!!

So refreshing to see the recent mass influx of youth members who dress and talk exactly how they want to.... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 11:54 AM

Penny - glad you mentioned that..

Couple of days ago I was also working on a post drawing parallels with "Kristallnacht" and "Beer Hall Putsch",
but mudcat was too erratic, and I was too tired to be bothered checking historic facts..
so I gave up and had a 😴 on the sofa...

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 11:09 AM

I keep feeling that on Friday morning I woke up down the other trouser leg of the universe. And I'm stuck here till I die, with a shattered Labour party and the brown shorts (I think I'll stick with that) re-enacting Kristallnacht on the streets of Lewisham.