BS: Pistorius

Subject: BS: Pistorius
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 04:45 AM

Just seen the sentencing for him. Six years. Seems very little for murder. I was under the impression that the minimum was 15 years. The judge seemed to me to have enormous sympathy for him, and to overvalue his 'noble offer' of voluntary community work.
I think he's got off very lightly. His pleadings and whingeing are all very well, but after all, Reeva is dead and will remain dead.
Her parents surely aren't satisfied with this sentence?

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:16 AM

It seems odd but I don't really know enough. To say the least, he doesn't seem to be the kind of bloke I could easily take to.

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:41 AM

Lets face it, he has got away very lightly with MURDER.

His excuse for opening fire ? he thought it was a burglar, WHAT ?

a burglar ? breaking in to his house to have a shower.

This is beyond the bounds of credibility.

It was a deliberate act on his part, he should have got life.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: banjoman
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:51 AM

He has a history of carelessness (at least) with guns. Was this not taken into account?

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 05:56 AM

The thing is, he has been convicted in a criminal court for murder. His defence wasn't enough to diminish that, and the conviction carries a sentence of far more than six years.
If one accepts utter remorse and becoming 'a broken man', one still can't reduce the sentence, as the conviction still stands. Mitigation can only do so much, and he didn't plead guilty from the start.

The judge (the same one as before) seems to have enormous sympathy with him, and appeared to want to spare him as much as possible. She kept emphasising that he is a broken man and his athletic career is finished, he has 'suffered' etc etc. Is she forgetting that he shot several times and murdered a young woman, and that her parents must be far more than 'broken', and 'suffering'?.

I have worked with prisoners in UK and many of them had received six years (or more) for burglary or drug-dealing. This would only put them in a Category B prison, not a Cat A for murderers and long-term inmates.

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 06:37 AM

"I have worked with prisoners in UK and many of them had received six years (or more) for burglary or drug-dealing."

Which if what I understand is correct and say for a six year term, provided they went for "Guilty" plea at the earliest opportunity would automatically reduce that sentence (6 years) by one third to 4 years time to be served, plus additional "time off" to 3 years which would put their Earliest Release Date to 2 years and 3 months.

No idea what the South African system says, or whether this sentence takes into account time already served, or whether he is regarded as a continued threat and a danger to society.

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 07:54 AM

Yes, Teribus, at that time, one served two thirds of any sentence over 4 yrs. And half of any sentence less than 4 yrs. But all that depended on good behaviour inside, few 'Adjudications' (brought before the Governor for misdeeds) and being subject to the judgement of the Parole Board. Time already served On Remand was deducted too. I don't know if things are the same now. A sentence of 6 years was fairly common for offences such as I described above. But never such a short term for murder.
I have visited in Parkhurst Prison several times, and there were men there serving 20yrs for murder. Near the end of their term, they would be transferred to a C Cat prison or even a D Cat (open prison) for the last year or so.
I'm just amazed (and rather disgusted to be honest) that the judge seemed to be doing her utmost to give the chap the easiest possible sentence. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 07:54 AM

It's a mistake to try to apply UK or US laws and
regulations on courts to South African trials and
judgments. They may be wildly different. In addition,
someone above referred to previous time served being
applied, which I don't know in this case; maybe someone
else does. And under the "regulations on courts" above,
I don't know how much leeway South African law allows
to judges in sentencing.

All of that said, six years, if it's really the total time
imposed, does seem darn light.

Dave Oesterreich


Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 08:40 AM

Several points:

1. You don't shoot until you are sure of your target. If you can't see it, don't shoot.

2. The police in South Africa issue licenses to possess firearms. Wasn't he checked? Why was a license issued?

3. Firearms kept in readiness and near at hand (e.g., loaded and by the bed) have been shown, over and over, more likely to kill a member of the household than a burglar.

4. It helps your defense in court if you give warning before shooting.

5. If you have a weapon for "self defense" and use it, you will almost certainly end up in court. At the very least you will end up talking with the police.

6. Six years seems like an awfully short sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 09:53 AM

The judge must be a family friend.

Someone once said, ' not only must justice be done, it must be seen to be done '

Obviously doesn't apply in South Africa

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 11:05 AM

I can't help feeling that if the judge had been white and the defendant black, he'd have received more than six years.

Another thing about the proceedings I found most distasteful was Pistorius's charade of staggering about on his stumps in front of the court, presumably to gain pity. As was his vomiting and sobbing etc. If someone has committed murder, no amount of grovelling and playacting should have any influence at all on the judge's decision about sentencing.
One can't imagine the Yorkshire Ripper or Harold Shipman vomiting into a bucket and sobbing loudly in court helping to reduce their sentencing. The crime itself and the guilty verdict are all that matter as a basis for a penalty being set.

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: meself
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 11:36 AM

Shipman, Wiki tells me, murdered 15 people. I don't know how many the Yorkshire Ripper killed, but obviously he was a serial killer too. I'm not a particular fan of Pistorious, but I'm not sure what the point is in comparing him to serial killers. If anything, they make him look not-so-bad .....

Subject: RE: BS: Pistorius
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jul 16 - 11:56 AM

The comparison I intended was about currying pity in court. Name any convicted murderer in UK (mass- or not) and imagine such a scenario having any effect on the judge.
I have actually sat in on several Crown Court cases (not murders obviously) and have witnessed defendants trying to look woebegone while their 'awful life and unlucky circumstances' were paraded before the jury. It didn't seem to make a lot of difference. I certainly saw no vomiting in buckets... I reckon the presiding judge would merely have sent the chap out to compose himself and have him brought back to continue as before.