Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?

Subject: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 01:38 PM

There is a version of this song on the DT but it is not quite the version that I am familiar with.

Who saw the 42nd?
Who saw them gang awa'?
Who saw the 42nd?
Marching to the burninlaw?
Some of them had boots and stockings
Some of them had nane ata'
Some of them had umbrellas
To keep the snow awa'.

Does anyone know any variants of this song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: sheila
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 02:38 PM

That should be "marchin doon the Broomielaw".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 03:06 PM

In Perth they used the word "Thimbleraw" and it seemed to vary depending on where you came from. My grandmother came from Dundee and she used the word "Burninlaw" or "raw" so I guess I'm looking for a version that was sung in Dundee.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: sheila
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:02 PM

Search digitrad for "Wha Saw the 42nd". There is some history there, as well as a full set of words.

sheila

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: sheila
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:07 PM

Ack! Sorry - I see that you've already checked digitrad!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:44 PM

Yes I did Sheila, but I'm trying to find lyrics that are closer to what my grandmother sang, so I can put it in a family songbook. I was hoping that someone would have some variations.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 09:55 AM

I don't know it, but I wonder if it should not be 'Who saw the forty twa...' same as in The Gallant Forty Twa.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: roopoo
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 03:40 AM

My dad used to sing "Wha saw the tattie-hauchers", I think it means potato peelers! It was the nickname of the regiment, I believe. I can't remember if there were any more words to this "alternative" version. Unfortunately my dad is no longer with us, so I can't check.

mouldy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 05:05 AM

Thanks Mouldy, I think there are enough versions on the DT that I can come pretty close to what my grandmother sang. I think I'll even put in the "hairy asses" version (although she would probably roll over in her grave)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 07:47 AM

G'day all,

If you search back over the last 2 weeks or so, you will find another thread that had a lot on this song ... but was initially after a contemporary version (or relation) that was a a Republican Irish diatribe against Scots soldiers in Northern Ireland. However, in the interim, it produced quite a few interesting variants - some of which may have already seeped into the DT.

Sorry, my HTML doesn't run to yet, so you will need to do your own follow-up on this.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: sheila
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 08:38 PM

mouldy - The 'tattie howkers' are potato harvesters/diggers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: roopoo
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 02:53 AM

Thanks, Sheila! Needless to say, it wasn't my dad's regiment.

mouldy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:52 AM

my dad song the same...i have been looking for the lyrics for ages as he has passed now .he had us all singing it when we we wee lol

Subject: Lyr Add: SAW YE THE FORTY-SECOND?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:01 PM

From Children's Rhymes, Children's Games, Children's Songs, Children's Stories by Robert Ford (Paisley: Alexander Gardner, 1904), page 32:

Since about the time of the Crimean War—and more immediately after then than now—the children of Glasgow have shouted in the streets:—

Saw ye the Forty-Second?
Saw ye them gaun awa'?
Saw ye the Forty-Second
Marching to the Broomielaw?
Some o' them had boots an' stockin's,
Some o' them had nane ava;
Some of them had tartan plaidies,
Marching to the Broomlielaw.

At an earlier period they had:—

Wha saw the Cotton-spinners?
Wha saw them gaun awa'?
Wha saw the Cotton-spinners
Sailing frae the Broomielaw?
Some o' them had boots an' stockin's,
Some o' them had nane ava;
Some o' them had umbrellas
For to keep the rain awa'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:46 PM

From what I can google, emigration of cotton spinners started before the Crimean War and continued some time after it. From Glasgow, the peak might have been the late 1830s.

In the second to last line, you'd have to sing um-be-rell-as to make it scan right, but I guess Ford or his source couldn't bring himself to write the local pronunciation down. But - how many working class people had umbrellas that far back, still less unemployed cotton spinners? I suspect that version is a later rewrite.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:23 PM

My mate Adam Stewart, rest his soul, Glasgow born and bred, used to call it the Polish song

'Warsaw the 42nd...'

DeG

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:55 AM

Digitrad doesn't seem to have "Wha wadna fecht for Charlie?", the original of this street song, either in its 42nd or its CottonSpinners variants; nor do they appear to occur anywhere in this thread. Could someone please supply them, & any info on origins [presumably during the '45 — is the tune any older than that? & if so, what was it previously?], please.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:21 AM

Is this (click) it, Mike?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:40 AM

No, Joe - the click just brought me back to this thread - not to 'Fecht For Charlie' which is what I am seeking.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:45 AM

OOps - sorry, Joe. Have now found that other thread, for which many thanx; which does indeed ansawer my ?? - except for as to whether the tune is older & Hogg set his words to it - & if so, what was it originally?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: GUEST,Wimpy
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:16 PM

When my Dad used to sing this, he was from Angus, I'm sure he had the line "Some of them had coats and kilties" instead of "boots and stockings".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 May 10 - 07:58 PM

The reference to the cotton spinners is interesting. A group of Glasgow cotton spinners was tried in early 1838 for offences related to trade union activity. The state threw the book at them, expecting to transport them to Australia, which would fit in with them being on a ship leaving the Broomielaw, and the case would have attracted enormous public interest. Just the sort of thing to make a song about.

But as far as I can tell (the relevant links need a JSTOR account) they were acquitted of all the serious charges, after a high-profile trial that set important precedents for civil liberties, and never left Scotland.

MtheGM - I've mentioned this on another thread about this song, but the tune is pre-Jacobite, originally "Who will go and marry Kitty?".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 22 - 05:32 AM

I mentioned my mate Adam earlier - Part of his version was

"Some of 'em wore hairy sporrans, sailing doon the Broomilaw"

I cannot find that line elsewhere - Anyone else heard it or shall I put it down to the Glasgow to Manchester folk process? :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Who Saw the 42nd?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 22 - 08:57 AM

Thoughts on the different verses mentioned here. I reckon that the 42nd sailing down the Broomielaw, a stretch of the river Clyde in Glasgow, is likely to refer to a troop ship heading for some theatre of war. However the tattie howkers would have been Irish seasonal workers returning to Ireland after the season,on the regular Glasgow to Belfast ferry which berthed at the Broomielaw. I am only guessing at the cotton spinners verse but they may have been going to Belfast too, to look for employment in the Irish linen industry, just a guess.
As a post script, there is a rocky island in the Firth of Clyde where traditionally they quarried the stones for curling, called Ailsa Craig, and in the days of the regular Glasgow/Belfast ferry service it got the nick name of Paddy's Milestone. I think it may have marked the halfway mark on the voyage or thereabouts.