Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope

Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 11 Sep 16 - 04:42 PM

" The British Army By the dublinners

Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 08:36 AM

From Joyce's Notes
Ref Don Gifford (Ulysses Annotated) knows one of these songs, too:
"Kick the Pope – One version of this Orange faction chant is a nagging street rhyme, "Tooral, looral, kick the Pope; / Hang him up wi' taury rope" (Leslie Daiken, Out Goes She; Dublin Street Rhymes [Dublin, 1963], p. 20. ['Taury' = 'tarry'.]"

From childhood memories the tune that was probably used for the "childrens" song in Joyce's notes would be the tune known in the UK "The British Army" which is at Tune the British Army Words "If it wisnae for the unions"
I'm sure some visting fiddle or accordion player will be able to Identify the original? name of the tone

Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope
From: Joe Richman
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 11:14 AM

"The Wild Colonial Boy" tune I'm referring to is the one that was used by Tommy Makem and the Clancy Brothers. The Contemplator's website has another tune for it, and there appear to be several more tunes used in Australia.

Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope
From: Joe Richman
Date: 13 Aug 16 - 11:28 PM

On thesession.org website they have midis of both "Garryowen" and "Fair and Easy" (supposedly the same as "Kick the Pope"). Both are 6/8 marching jigs, but they are definitely NOT the same tune. The other question is the possibility that "Kick the Pope" is the same as "The Wild Colonial Boy" tune. I don't think so. I think that the band in the video is a "Kick the Pope" Band, but they are playing a tune that is probably not "Kick the Pope". "The Wild Colonial Boy" may or may not be popular with Fenians, but the tune was probably used for other things before the 1830s and may have another name that I am unaware of.

Subject: RE: Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 16 - 07:06 PM

There's quite a treatise on "Kick the Pope (before us) on a Website called James Joyce online notes. Apparently, Joyce referred to "Kick the Pope" in Ulysses (1922). One entry on the James Joyce online notes referred to "Kick the Pope before us" (the Orange soubriquet for "Garryowen").

I get the impression that "Kick the Pope" and "Garryowen" are generally thought to have different melodies, but I can't say that I know, myself.

-Joe-

Subject: Origins: Fair and Easy vs Kick the Pope
From: Joe Richman
Date: 13 Aug 16 - 05:21 PM

"Kick the Pope" is one of the tunes mentioned in the song "Old Orange Flute". I Googled it and found a Youtube video with the title "KICK THE POPE" which had a flute band with a drum-beating "Pope" (the guy looked like John-Paul ). However, the tune sounded like one I've associated with the song "Wild Colonial Boy"! I was pretty sure that the tune "Kick the Pope" wouldn't have been used for that so I dug further. On "The Traditional Tune Archive" I found a tune called "Fair and Aisy I'll Be Rid of Her".

This was the discussion post there:

FAIR AND AISY (I'LL BE RID OF HER). AKA and see "Fair and Aisy I'll Get Out of It," "Kick the Pope." American, March (6/8) or Jig. D Major. Standard tuning (fiddle). AB. The title of this originally Irish tune was "Kick the Pope," while the title above and the 1st alternate were the inspiration of old Scottish fifer Dick Gibson in an effort to gentrify the Orange sensibilities of the 'Pope' title. Bayard (1981) belives it belongs to the same tune group as "Bung Your Eye", and to the larger "Welcome Home (3)" tune family. "

On thesession.org website I found another copy of the sheet music and a good MIDI file of it.
It is a 6/8 jig-march which makes sense.

I'm pretty sure the Youtube band isn't playing "Kick the Pope", but I want to make sure. I wanted to make a medley of Orange tunes, and I already know "The Protestant Boys" (aka "Lilliburlero") and "Croppies Lie Down" which are also mentioned in"Old Orange Flute".

BTW, I found a NI BBC video of coverage of several flute band parades on the 12th of last month, and it sounded kind of like coverage of any other parade intended to entertain the public. No fighting or rioting in sight.