BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 06:49 PM

Jaysus, of all the threads here that I've seen drift into stupid territory, this one takes the biscuit. Wassup with you, Kevin?

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 06:27 PM

Not men who do the raping?

Or do you mean that's not what aken said?

The post I referred to said"On the subject of "male rape" I think it will be found that by far the largest number are perpetrated by other men.

My summary seems fair enough.
..............................

This thread has drifted rather far. I suppose the only relevance of this stuff about it being men who do the raping is that it underlines why a defendant in a rape case might have insisted on having a female lawyer, regardless of whether or not she would have preferred not to be landed in the role.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 05:46 PM

Aken pointed out that, whoever is getting raped, it's going to be a man that does it.

NOT. Get a grip.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 02:45 PM

I haven't actually seen anything homophobic in this thread.

Aken pointedout that, whoever is getting raped, it's going to be a man that does it. But in itself that is surely neither controversial not homophobic, Raping is very much a man's problem, while being raped is a potential problem for both men and women, though particularly for women.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 09:58 AM

" men had been raped or suffered an attempt within their lifetime."
Has this got any relevance here us is it yet another opportunistic outing for our tame homophobe?
It is estimated that I in 5 women in Britain aged between 16 and 59 have suffered some form of sexual violence.
31% od young women between the ages of 16 and 24 have reported experiencing sexual violence during childhood.
Rape crisis centres have reported having to deal with an average of 3,000 rapes per week.
"I think it is accepted that male rape is in many cases carried out by people who would not identify themselves as gay"
Very true.
I'd love to be a fly-on-the wall when Ake and his like goes to Walton Gaol and tells the cons who indulge in man-to-man sex there that they are gay
And some of those beefy sailors I used to work with.....!!
The same with clerical rape - the majority of these are overwhelmingly opportunistic rather than homosexual.
That's what homophobia has to do with it - certainly nothing to do with the subject in hand - unless you are suggesting Donald and Hilly are.... nah....!
Jim Carroll

.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 08:50 AM

From CDC....."A CDC study found that, in the US, 1 in 71 men had been raped or suffered an attempt within their lifetime. The same study found that approximately 1 in 21 or 4.8% men in a survey had been made to penetrate someone else, usually an intimate partner or acquaintance.[34] A NWAV Survey found that 0.1 percent of men surveyed had been raped in the previous 12 months, compared to 0.3 percent of women. Using these statistics it was estimated that, in the US, 92,748 men had been raped in the previous year.[35] In another study by the School of Public Health at Boston University, 30 percent of gay and bisexual men reported having experienced at least one form of sexual assault during their lifetimes. [36]

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 08:15 AM

It is actially something to do with "nature", insofar as that term includes anatomy.

I think it is accepted that male rape is in many cases carried out by people who would not identify themselves as gay.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 04:03 AM

"If it's 'unreported, we wouldn't know about it. I assume Jim means 'under-reported'"
Somewhat 'semantical' Nige - not unlike the PM President defence above.
Jim Carroll
UNREPORTED RAPES
"The statistics say quite categorically that the vast majority of "male rapes" are perpetrated by men"
The vast majority of ALL rapes are carried out by men - nothing to do with "nature" - it is a mans crime and is a diversion from what is being discussed.
The male orientated society we live in does much to promote it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 06:51 PM

When putting in a quote from someone's post, it's a good idea to put in an indication of whose post it was. Get's confusing otherwise.

I think there is actually pretty strong evidence that very few women rape men, Greg, and that virtually all rape of either sex is perpetrated by men.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 03:49 PM

I do not believe for one moment that forced sex is in "the nature of women"

No-one gives a fart in a high wind what nonsence you "believe" Ake - what can you provide evidence for & can substantiate?

Or is this more in the nature of your anti-Clinton delusions and misinformation?

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 02:18 PM

The statistics say quite categorically that the vast majority of "male rapes" are perpetrated by men. Women as perpetrators of rape are extremely uncommon.

What the fuck has "homophobia" got to do with it?

I do not believe for one moment that forced sex is in "the nature of women"......but it certainly is in the nature of men.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 02:17 PM

Thanks Nigel. Just to be clear, I was responding to your comment of 12:33 PM, not the later one at 01:51 PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 02:13 PM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 01:53 PM

Pretty much what I said, way back up the thread, Nigel, but it was poo-poo'd as 'hearsay' by one of our American friends.

That's okay. Just testing the waters, and seeing what the level of the discussion is.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 01:55 PM

It is not in the nature of women

And you base your expertise on "the nature of women" upon...... homophobia?

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 01:53 PM

Pretty much what I said, way back up the thread, Nigel, but it was poo-poo'd as 'hearsay' by one of our American friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 01:51 PM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 03:42 AM

"The word 'rapist' in the thread title means 'a person who has raped'"
Technically, maybe, but in the wider context, it needs to be applied to an individual or society who helps maintain a situation where rape is encouraged and even commonplace.
Rape is one one of the most unreported crimes and it is the most humiliating and difficult ones to prosecute ad prove - the victim almost inevitably finds herself (invariably it is a woman) defending her own behaviour and sexual history.

If it's 'unreported, we wouldn't know about it. I assume Jim means 'under-reported'

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 12:33 PM

Hillary Clinton, as a defence attorney, acted to defend her client.

The law requires cases to be held with an attorney for the prosecution, and an attorney for the defence.
The fact that the person currently running for the job of President of the USA did her job should be seen as a positive.

If she had refused to do her job (whether believing her client to be innocent or guilty)then it would be a failure of the US legal system.

I don't fully understand US politics, or law, but I believe the above to be accurate.

Can anyone correct my assumptions? If not, I think there's no more to be said.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 11:56 AM

I don't want to get into this apart from making the point that whether the victim is male or female, it is much more likely to be about power than sex. As for the figures, they are available from the Ministry of Justice for the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 11:31 AM

Simply stating an incontrovertible truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 11:25 AM

Here we go. Homophobes Incorporated wheedle their way in again.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 11:17 AM

On the subject of "male rape" I think it will be found that by far the largest number are perpetrated by other men.
It is not in the nature of women to force sex on another person.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 11:01 AM

Difference between Head of State and Prime Minister (Head of Government).

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 10:26 AM

"O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion."

Take heed, yanks. There's many a foolish notion afoot in your politics at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 09:43 AM

Ake, it's not that I don't want to talk about politics.
It's that I don't want to talk about US politics with you or the other chronic arguers who inhabit these threads, take them over, talk the subject to death and then start over again. Especially not when I've read it all so frequently I know what you're going to type before I read it.

I may make an occasional comment, but I don't enjoy the sort of repetitive, frustrating muckraking by people who can't even vote in our election that some obviously do. Mostly them.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 08:56 AM

Incidentally
Indira Priyadarshini Gandhi (Hindustani: [ˈɪnːdɪrə ˈɡaːnd̪ʱi] ( listen); née Nehru; 19 November 1917 – 31 October 1984) was an Indian politician and central figure of the Indian National Congress party, and to date the only female Prime Minister of India.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 08:29 AM

"It doesn't invalidate your main point, Jim, but I think you would not have just that that 'invariably it is a woman' in if you had paused a little longer"
I totally accept that male rape happens, but I am left with the impression that the pressure put on women in court in relation to their sexual history largely outnumbers that of males.
It seems to be male promiscuity is acceptable while it isn't the case with women.
I may be totally wrong about this - I'm not sure there are figures on this   
"Thankfully the poster who stated the above is of an age whereby he can no longer be called for Jury service"
I suppose some of the more insecure among us find it necessary to turn these discussions into personal attacks - takes all sorts...
Trump's record concerning women SPEAKS FOR ITSELF
He is not exactly noted for thinking before he opens his mouth, on anything - pretty much like some of the posters on this forum who coose to behave as they do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 06:25 AM

Just as a point of order: male rape does happen (from one article "Survivors UK estimates that across the UK between 2010 and 2014, 679,051 sexual assaults and rapes of males took place. Of these 652,568 were not reported to any police force."

Quite how they were able to get these figures is hard to say but around 7,500 seem to have been reported to the police. Under-reporting is thought to be more severe than for rape of women.

It doesn't invalidate your main point, Jim, but I think you would not have just that that 'invariably it is a woman' in if you had paused a little longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 06:09 AM

"countries like India and Pakistan, who hardly have the best reputations in regard to women?"

So according the posters view of Donald Trump {a rapist - in outlook} does that make India and Pakistan rapist states?

Thankfully the poster who stated the above is of an age whereby he can no longer be called for Jury service, "objectivity" is a different planet to him and he has not got the foggiest notion of what constitutes "evidence".

I would have thought that any candidate in a US Presidential election who even gave the slightest hint that "he regards women as 'available meat' and he has also made it clear that he would attempt to maintain a society where women remain second-class citizens then their political aspirations would be dead in the water - WHY? - 70.4 million women cast ballots in the 2008 presidential election, versus 60.7 million men.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 05:52 AM

Pakistan has never had a female Head of State

India's first female President was Pratibha Patil who was Head of State between 2007 and 2012

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 03:42 AM

"The word 'rapist' in the thread title means 'a person who has raped'"
Technically, maybe, but in the wider context, it needs to be applied to an individual or society who helps maintain a situation where rape is encouraged and even commonplace.
Rape is one one of the most unreported crimes and it is the most humiliating and difficult ones to prosecute ad prove - the victim almost inevitably finds herself (invariably it is a woman) defending her own behaviour and sexual history.
Trump, as an individual, has made it plain that he regards women as 'available meat' and he has also made it clear that he would attempt to maintain a society where women remain second-class citizens - like the 'Page Three' society we still have in Britain - a rapists candidate.
Some of the views that have emerged regarding Clinton indicate that it is little different in the States.
It's always seemed odd to me that we should be talking about 'the first woman President of the U.S.' in the 21st century - doesn't that put them behind countries like India and Pakistan, who hardly have the best reputations in regard to women?
Hopefully Clinton won't turn out to be another Thatcher, but she was always regarded as a 'token man' anyway.
Yes - I do believe Trump to be a rapist - in outlook.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 03:21 AM

"While it's somewhat entertaining to watch a bunch of British people fight about our USA election, it's also off-putting to the point that few Americans want to get involved in the threads once the boors get the bit in their teeth. So peace, out. "

What is so disturbing is that so few US members want to discuss politics.....are they simply turned off by the obvious corruption at the heart of the Pub/Dem. charade?.......Are they afraid free discussion will open a can of worms......why are people supposedly "of the left", prepared to vote for an icon of the establishment when they had the choice of a real reformer?
I think most people who consider politics in the US are deeply ashamed of the electoral system which they tolerate.

The UK is tied to US foreign policy in many ways and we are perfectly entitled to give our views.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 03:02 AM

Had a look at the Jeri's link, but it is pretty inconclusive regarding Mrs Clintons motives.   The whole sorry episode has no real bearing on the present electoral situation.......except for the laughter over matters which are shocking and immoral.
This seems to be a character trait which I first noticed in Mrs Clinton's weird and un-statesmanlike reaction to the horrific murder of Col Gadhafi.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 01:34 PM

Example please Greg - oh of course I forgot, your good at accusations, very poor on anything to substantiate them.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 01:26 PM

No, T-Bird, not frowned upon by me.

As your own hypocrisy has been called out many times, its entirely understandable that you should be tetchy about it.

However, fundagelical "Christian"(sic) pete is a special case in this regard.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 11:56 AM

Greg F. - 19 Sep 16 - 09:20 AM - careful now Greg F. pointing out the hypocrisy of others appears to be frowned upon - or does that only apply to one side?

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Stu
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 11:31 AM

Which isn't supposed to sound disrespectful, please understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Stu
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 10:50 AM

"While it's somewhat entertaining to watch a bunch of British people fight about our USA election"

Well, we all have a stake in the US election even if most folk outside the states have only seen the US on the telly. The decision you make will affect all of us and affect many people beyond your borders in a very profound and personal way, and people the world over take a very close interest, and so they should.

So you aren't needed for the debate to happen, although of course (in my worthless opinion) it's always better to get the views of those who will at least exert influence over the outcome, and will have to cope with their country's choice, even if it goes against their own view (see 'Brexit').

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 09:42 AM

Liberals, the left, want to change things. Conservatives, the right, want things to stay the same. Simple and classic, but that's fundamentally what the fight is about. Look at it from farther away, and you realize it's that back-and-forth that means things will change, but will do so slowly...most of the time.

I do find it's hard for me these days to suffer fools, although I'll admit it's my definition of "fools". People who believe and spread lies without bothering to check facts, people who are so hard-wired that most can predict what they're going to say on a given issue or in response to certain people. It's just not fun talking to the programming.

While it's somewhat entertaining to watch a bunch of British people fight about our USA election, it's also off-putting to the point that few Americans want to get involved in the threads once the boors get the bit in their teeth. So peace, out.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 09:20 AM

Still be a sneer in this context.

No, Kevin - its simply pointing out pete's hypocrisy in this one instance of many similar ones.

Full stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Stu
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 09:16 AM

Ace's version of "liberalism" is an elusive and fickle entity. No-one is sure exactly what or who he is talking about. A definition would be "useful".

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 07:44 AM

Liberal = Empathy = Great Society

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 07:06 AM

Funny word, liberalism. The social excesses you refer to are, I guess, things connected with free movement and protections for workers rights, whereas the excesses of liberalism I see are those of neoliberalism deriving from 19th century liberalism like deregulation and world trade agreements that can cause whole countries to be sued.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 04:57 AM

Well Mr McGrath.....the establishment have much the same view of Mr Corbyn and his supporters.

The important thing is that people who had lost interest in politics are being re-energised and are starting to question the status quo.

I also see a huge worldwide backlash against "liberalism" and its social excesses. "liberalism" has dehumanised much of society, we are now forced to live by self appointed committees.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 09:31 PM

Still doing it. How about if you substitute "Jews", "Muslims", "non-believers", "women", "gays" etc, if any of those happened to be applicable? Still be a sneer in this context. And a pointless diversion, as would continuing this particular side issue.

The thing with Trump isn't that he gets "demonised". It's that he demonises himself - and that millions of Americans like him for it. And the other millions who don't - and the countless outsiders looking in and feeling sick at what they see - aren't reacting to what gets said about him, but to what they see on screen when he is on show.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 06:58 PM

Now bringing in a sectarian sneer like that, Greg,

Sneer?

Nothing of the kind. Fact.

pete might want to review something in his bible regarding "bearing false witness".

Or not. "Christians"[sic] can be kind of slippery.....

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 06:44 PM

He's previously expressed the complete opposite view - it appears he'll say just about anything. I don't think "come out" is really appropriate, it implies making a genuine commitment, and that's just not how he works.

Walt Whitman's words are particulary apt in the case of Donald: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." Except Donald would never say anything as honest as that about himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 06:00 PM

As you say Mcgraph ".....it could be....."   Seems to be doing pretty well though despite being thoroughly demonised. Just as an outside observer with no particular affiliation .i do note though that he has come out as pro life , but whether that is a political expediency , or moral considerations I know not.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 05:32 PM

After posting that it occurred to me that the word "Trumpery" is peculiarly appropriate -
Trumpery:
noun plural -eries
1. foolish talk or actions
2. a useless or worthless article; trinket
adjective
3. useless or worthless

In fact it seems so remarkably apposite that it might have been coined for the man, though in fact it goes back to Middle English and before. I anticipate that in future years most people coming across it will assume it was made up for dear Donald.

In fact in time it could be his only toehold on immortality - -nd most appropriately in that case it would be one to which he was not in fact entitled.

I recommend the word should be used frequently in the next few weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 05:06 PM

Now bringing in a sectarian sneer like that, Greg, is actually just the same thing that is rightly criticised in the context of Trumpery.

Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ?
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 10:51 AM

pete and Ake should get together and form The Delusional Fact-Free Clinton Haters' Association. Good "Christians" both.