BS: UK Citizen Test

Subject: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 10:12 AM

Idling away a few minutes I thought I would take a UK Citizen Test and one question was:

Qu 6. Bank Holidays have no national or religious significance

True or False.

Interesting I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 10:36 AM

I am frightened to look. If I fail will I get sent back to Poland?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 10:48 AM

My husband took this test years ago, and bought a study book and computer disc with all 1000 questions in it (They select 24 at random from the 1000). I was stumped by many of them. He persevered, learning them by rote, and passed on his second attempt. It's been changed recently to a much harder set.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:06 AM

Qu 6. Bank Holidays have no national or religious significance
True or False.

Nasty question. Is there a difference between 'Bank Holidays' and 'Public Holidays'?
If not then some have religious significance (Christmas, Boxing Day, Good Friday, Easter Monday) and some do not, (May Day, Late spring Bank Holiday, August bank holiday).

Not really a question with a binary answer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:20 AM

I seem to remember it was multiple choice back then. You had four answers from which to choose. Many were 'trick questions', such as one about the 'Great Britain' football team. And some awful ones about the percentages of various nationalities of immigrants in the nineteenth century. How many born-and-bred Britons would know that? I certainly didn't!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:43 AM

There is a Great Britain Olympic football team, Eliza. I certainly would not know percentages of immigrants but, like most multiple choice questions, some can usually be eliminated and that often leaves you with a 50/50 chance on a guess. I have used that system quite often in some exams with great success :-D

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: BobL
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:50 AM

I had a look at a practise set, they seem reasonable (in spite of the odd typo - Dawning Street???). Especially with a pass mark of 66%.

Perhaps they should include questions like:
"What does 'Hearts of Oak' refer to? - Wooden ships / Early aircraft / Longbows / Memorial trees"
"Women are not allowed to perform Morris Dancing in public - True / False?"
"What is Real Ale?" (suggestions invited).

Perhaps they already do.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 05:53 AM

BobL
Perhaps we shouldn't criticise typos.
The official march of the Royal Navy is "Heart of oak" same as the standard lyrics. There's no 's' in the title.

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 07:13 AM

Dave, I think the question referred to the European Cup (not sure). Anyway, my husband knows all there is to know about football, so he got that one quite easily! Bearing in mind his English was very limited, and he was merely learning the 'look' of the right answers by the shape of the words, it's a miracle he got through. And it rather negates the Governments attempts to educate prospective immigrants, and to prove they understand the English language, as it shouldn't be possible to crib one's way round the test as he did!

I'd have been deported immediately, as the questions were very difficult. I clapped like anything at my husband's Citizenship Ceremony many months later.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: G-Force
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 07:14 AM

Perhaps they should include questions like:
"What does 'Hearts of Oak' refer to? - Wooden ships / Early aircraft / Longbows / Memorial trees"
"Women are not allowed to perform Morris Dancing in public - True / False?"
"What is Real Ale?" (suggestions invited).

Or 'What is Folk?'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 07:36 AM

Ha! I've just found one of his (many) study books for the test. The questions are really hard. Here are some examples:-

How often do most children in the UK receive their pocket money?

How many Assembly Members are there in the National Assembly for Wales?

What percentage of children live in lone-parent families?

At what age do children in England go to secondary school? (Silly question then, as there were Middle Schools in Norfolk for up to 12 yr olds, and in Suffolk it was 13.)

Pressure groups are not allowed to influence government policy. True or false. (How does one define 'influence'?)

It is illegal to be drunk in public. True or false? (define 'drunk'!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 08:28 AM

Senoufou:
His recognising answers by their shape in not that surprising.
World Scrabble champions now can come from countries where English isn't used, and the players don't know what the words mean, just that a particular grouping of letters is a valid word.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 08:59 AM

I agree, Nigel. After many years of teaching children to read by phonetic methods, I was encouraged to include 'look-and-say' in my strategies, which helped with English words that weren't decipherable phonetically. Its detractors justifiably called it 'barking at words'. However, barking is better than remaining silent and stumped!

I sometimes try to imagine attempting the Life In UK Test in Malinke by merely memorising letter patterns in one thousand examples. Don't reckon I'd have got very far.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 09:12 AM

And here is the trick football question, from the Home Office Official Study Guide:-

The UK football team is very important to British people. True or false?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 09:46 AM

Not a lot of these questions are helpful in living in the UK. While a basic overview of how the government is made up, and the different levels it operates at would be very useful the numbers themselves are not. Does the test cover such things as how refuse services operate, public transport, ownership and registration of vehicles and general day to day life?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 11:22 AM

There are a few questions like that Manitas, but I always had the suspicion that the whole test was devised to have prospective immigrants falling at the first fence so to speak. I saw a Ghanaian couple at the Test Centre whose first language was English, and they were both very upset as they had both failed. (They tell you then and there if you've passed or not.)
It seemed as if the Home Office wanted to make it as difficult as possible, thereby limiting the numbers of new British Citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 01:03 PM

Havent the civil service got anything better to do what waste of taxpayers money

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 06:25 PM

Reckon I would fail too , especially football questions . I know little more about professional football than its 22 men kicking a ball around and getting paid too much money for it !

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 07:04 PM

Hahaha Pete! My opinion entirely!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 08:34 PM

Pure prejudice. The top-earning superstars of footie are in a tiny minority. Most jobbing footballers earn quite good dough in the four top divisions, but rarely enough to live on below that level. You may not like footie but it gives a vast amount of pleasure to a vast number of people, mainly working class. I happen to be an aficionado and I can tell you that the skill level in the top clubs is sublime. Too bad if you don't like it. Just remember when you're slagging off footballers that they are are guaranteed a very short career only, devastatingly shorter still if they get badly injured.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: BobL
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 03:49 AM

Surely the point is not whether you're a fan of a particular sport, but that if you're sufficiently integrated into the community, you will have picked up a lot of this sort of stuff in passing. Not all of it, but you don't have to get every question right.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 04:27 AM

Well, I've been 'integrated into the community' since birth, and I'm afraid that in spite of a University education and being a teacher all my working days, I found I couldn't answer many of the test questions.

It would be interesting to do an experiment and get large numbers of born-and-bred Brits of all ages and walks of life to have a go at 'Life In The UK' to see how they'd fare.

The only way to pass is to do as my husband did and study the 1000 questions and their answers, and learn by rote. You could do this if you'd never set foot in the UK.

You have to get a minimum of 18 correct out of 24, and the questions are randomly selected by the computer from the 1000 on the database.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 04:34 AM

The most fascinating event in the long process of my husband finally receiving his passport was that he had to have an interview in Norwich at the tiny 'backstreet' passport office where they do this. They apparently asked him about his house in our village; what colour was the garage door, did it have a garden etc. The next day, there sat the chap he'd been interviewed by, sitting in his car facing our bungalow.
My husband walked down to the village shop to get my paper, and the man watched him, then drove off. A few days after this the famous UK passport arrived by courier.
I suppose this is to prevent fraud, and in a way it's reassuring. But I felt we were in a James Bond film!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 04:59 AM

Hi Steve, I cannot agree with the vast amounts that some footballers are paid. There are some who earn more in ONE month than I earned in my ENTIRE career.

I realise most have a relatively short career and that most are not receiving vast sums but some of the salaries are frankly ridiculous.

Thread drift I know ............... so back to the UK Citizen Test.

I've taken 14 so far. I've scored 100% on just two and actually failed one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 05:50 AM

Well when I mentioned the top-earning superstars I wasn't defending their salaries, which are ultimately paid by the fans, to whom the policy of supply and demand is applied. What I was saying is that it's unfair to tar the whole of the footballing world with the same brush. The top earners that hit The headlines are in a very tiny minority. And I wIll continue this discussion only on condition that there is to be no criticism whatsoever of Liverpool FC.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 06:10 AM

Ha! Under the Christmas tree sit several presents for my husband, and one is a Liverpool FC strip. Er... but also a Man U one. And...er.. an Arsenal 'training tracksuit'. He's a total Premier League tart.

The point about footballers' fantastic salaries which are transient is that, after the ball is over so to speak, these chaps are perfectly entitled to find work elsewhere, either opening training schools or chains of sports shops etc., trading on their past celebrity and fame. They have also presumably wisely invested their riches, and have a nice nest-egg.
The rest of us just have to make do with a normal life, and a normal wage (in my husband's case, the minimum wage).
Just saying.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 06:31 AM

That's true, and many of them do. I don't think too many sit on yachts for the rest of their lives. But many more were born with one particular outstanding talent which they have to use their "best years" to exploit at the expense of other career development, and lack business or leadership brains. We tend to judge the world of football by the antics of the Beckhams and Rooneys, which isn't entirely fair. You could also judge cinema by the few top-paid megastars, the world of classical music by the very few conductors or soloists who command huge sums for a single concert, or the whole of the Beeb by the salaries of just a few spoiled brats who infest our screens with their shallow contests and chat shows on Saturday evenings ("Strictly" excepted, as I love it). The whole picture is far more enlightening than the scandalous headlines.

And you still have several days in which to redeem yourself by removing that Man U strip from under the Christmas tree. Bin it now, say three Hail Marys and vow to never repeat this scurrilous act!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 10:17 AM

I hate to tell you this Steve, but he has from last Crimbo a Man CITY strip and a West Ham kitbag thing. When we first met in the far dim past (in Accra in Ghana) I gave him a Man U annual, toiletries bag and strip. I'm sure it wasn't my overwhelming beauty or superb figure which captured his heart, it was merely these gewgaws of his fav team. I could have been Quasimodo and he'd have been mine.

I think you're right not to judge ALL footballers by the same yardstick, nor in other spheres of life. It's true, one shouldn't tar every member of a group with the same brush.

Please mate, take off that bra. There are other remedies for man-boobs you know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Stu
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 11:43 AM

"Just remember when you're slagging off footballers that they are are guaranteed a very short career only,"

My heart bleeds for them. They;re overpaid, overprivileged and can sod off. The wife of one very well-known footballer stood up at a village meeting (a posh place a few miles away) the protest against affordable homes there because the type of person living in those houses would bring the area down.

On top of that, these wage demands (for playing a game for chrissake) are making it impossible for non-league and lower league clubs to pay their players; many can't even issue contracts for players for even a full season as they don;t know if they can pay them: wages rise as a result of the trickle down effect from the overpaid top flight players. These clubs often play a vital role in their community, but the big clubs don't support them at all.

Bollocks to them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 11:44 AM

No-one's ever obeyed ME when I ask them to take off their bra! Where am I going wrong? Will chocolate or perfume help?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 11:52 AM

Plenty did in my youth Steve ...............

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 12:11 PM

Stu, standpoints on this tend to reflect whether you like football or not. You're doing what I said is unfair, tarring the whole sport with the same brush you use to tar the overpaid, overprivileged FEW (out of millions). I'm a bit surprised that you employ just one egregious example of bad behaviour by a WAG to support your case. Professional football, especially the Premier League, is a highly-capitalistic enterprise. It works very much on a supply and demand model. It raises huge sums from selling television rights. That's the way of the world. Actually, some money does trickle down, nowhere near enough I admit. Same with pop music and those ghastly celebs who infest our Saturday nights, the likes of Graham Effin' Norton and Simon Cowell. Same with Andy Murray and the Williams sisters. Same with anyone who's good at making a fast buck. Until some wise deity sweeps it all away we're stuck with it. And a lot of people are made very happy, whether you and I think any of it is worthwhile or not. In spite of the wages and the dodgy personalities of a few of the players and managers, football at the highest level is a lovely, intricate and highly skilled game to watch. Standards have never been higher in terms of tactics, pace, individual skill and stamina. Of course, if you don't like footie all that will wash over you. Your choice. Just remember that football, whether on the telly or in a stadium, is an chillout outlet for thousands of people every week. While you're watching football you're not blowing up cars in Turkey or dropping barrel bombs on Syrian civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Allan Conn
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 12:53 PM

The football team is a bit of a trick question with no easy answer. Has there been in recent years a Team GB football team? The answer is Yes for both men and women. However only the women's team had backing from each of the Home Associations. The men's team only actually came from part of Britain. And even at that for both sexes it was a one off because the Olympics were held in London. There was not GB Team competing at the Rio Olympics.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 01:13 PM

That's what they all say, Raggytash - you'll be telling us next that your bed collapsed due to the weakening effect of all those notches...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 01:16 PM

I've set tests for pupils many times, and one thing you must never do is put in trick questions. One is testing knowledge, not trying to catch people out. There would have been howls of protest from my class if I had done this, and rightly so, as it's unfair.

Luckily they couldn't trip up my husband with this one for two reasons. Firstly, he had studied the Test assiduously for weeks; and secondly, he probably knows more about football than the entire staff at the Home Office.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 01:23 PM

I'm smiling at this bra business. British men are so very interested in what Hugh Dennis calls 'norks'. Sadly, Africans seem to have no interest whatsoever in them, as they're on view daily in the family compound, where all the ladies go topless quite a lot. It's legs that are far more interesting, as they're hidden at all times by full-length pagnes. Sadly for me, I have rubbish legs.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 03:14 PM

No Steve, I carved them on the top so as not be weaken the base !!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 03:33 PM

I like a chap with a handyman brain.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Dec 16 - 08:54 AM

I've set tests for pupils many times, and one thing you must never do is put in trick questions. One is testing knowledge, not trying to catch people out. There would have been howls of protest from my class if I had done this, and rightly so, as it's unfair.

Maybe this is one of the problems with schools today. The strict knowledge based test tests only whether the knowledge has been retained. The occasional 'trick' question tests whether the pupil has the ability to think for themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 16 - 09:09 PM

Most people who play football are of course amateurs.
...........
These questions sound daft. I doubt very much if most natives would pass it. In a lot of the questions I've seen an answer that was actually correct would actually be counted as a wrong answer - for example the one about whether pressure groups can influence government policy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:11 AM

No Nigel, children resent unfairness very much. They don't like teachers who try to get one over on them. especially in an important test. They need to be able trust that their teacher is not going to trick them. Maybe at Secondary level it would work, but my experience is with Junior age pupils.
The Life In UK Test is so important for the candidates. They need to pass to be able to achieve IRL (Indefinite Leave To Remain, or Settlement) If they can't achieve 18 out of 24, they can be booted out when their FLR (Further Leave To Remain) expires. My poor husband would have been sent back to Africa in spite of our marriage, and I would have had to emigrate to be with him. These are massive consequences, and the whole circus cost us many thousands of pounds. To have all that hanging on silly unanswerable questions is cruel and unfair.
I personally think that if the Government truly wishes prospective immigrants to know about Life In The UK, they should offer six or so classes where various topics are covered. Attendance at the classes would qualify for ILR. One could even ask for a payment to cover the tuition.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: BobL
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:29 AM

Which is our nearest star? (The Sun)
According to the Bible, how many Magi visited Jesus? (It doesn't say - three is just a guess, being the number of gifts)
What colour is a peacock's egg? (It isn't - eggs are laid by peahens)

Trick questions? Or just probing the candidate's knowledge a bit deeper?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:42 AM

There was an article recently on the BBC website about some primary schools now teaching meta-cognition. It was presented as a relatively new idea, even though as far as I can tell it is just a newush name for things that have been taught since education started. The article was a bit odd since it claimed the subject covered both philosophy and juggling (sic

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:45 AM

Sorry, bad html there. It should have said:

There was an article recently on the BBC website about some primary schools now teaching meta-cognition. It was presented as a relatively new idea, even though as far as I can tell it is just a newush name for things that have been taught since education started. The article was a bit odd since it claimed the subject covered both philosophy and juggling (sic). Be that as it may, getting children to think about what they think and why seems to me to be a very useful approach that has got somewhat lost in the 'repeat what we told you' era of examinations

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 09:09 PM

back to the 'heart of oak'/ morris dancing / real ale suggestions = these are NOT British /UK Qs but English ones!

as for Bank Holidays - who gives a-?
I worked for 40 years and Bank Holidays had absolutely no effect on me whatsoever
(NB I believe they may be different in Scotland from in England - but I still say -- who gives a -- !!!!)

I will NEVER make any sort of vow of loyalty to UK or Britain- - I am Scottish / European.
I would probably make a vow of fealty to Scotland BUT would need to be absolutely satisfied that I understood all the implications and had a get-out clause if I changed my mind / 'they' changed the rules!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Dec 16 - 05:30 AM

Morris dancing: has been danced in Scotland since at least the time of James IV of Scotland: true there is probably only one side left in Scotland, i.e. Banchory Morris, but there were in the past quite a few sides up in that N East corner, as well as Lothian Morris and Jenny Geddes clog.
Real ale? PLENTY of Scottish breweries breing real ale: not confined to England!
Bank holidays: usually the same N abpnd S of the border as the banks have to trade with each other.
Public holidays: extra ones in Scotland,not so consistently observed for Victoria Day (3rd Monday in May), trades holidays (different dates in different areas) and September holiday (3rd Monday in September).

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Dec 16 - 05:57 AM

Come to bonny
Loch Fyne

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Dec 16 - 06:04 AM

At the Citizenship ceremony, the candidates must swear allegiance to the Queen and her ministers. There are alternative oaths for those with no religion, but the rest swear by Almighty God. The Queen is the monarch of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, and therefore there are questions on the Test about St Andrew's Day, Hogmanay and so on, and other significant dates and special days in all parts of the UK. Not to mention those concerning the legal, employment, administrative, religious and education systems in Scotland, Wales and NI. If a candidate wishes, they can take the Test in Gaelic or Welsh.
It's pretty comprehensive. (And difficult!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Dec 16 - 08:09 AM

I remember a breakfast conversation with some Americans when I was asked to clarify the difference between the UK, Britain, Great Britain, the British Isles and the British Islands (if any!). That would make a good test in its own right

Subject: RE: BS: UK Citizen Test
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Dec 16 - 04:19 PM

And the you've got the Channel Isles...