Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 12 Mar 17 - 06:30 PM Although she appears on TV sometimes, LeAnn isn't one of the overused Rimes. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Andy7 Date: 10 Mar 17 - 01:57 PM That rhyme reminds me of a Limerick of mine: There once were some models from Ayr Who said, "With our shows, our clothes pair; "We've worn Yorkwear in York, "And Corkwear in Cork, "Now we're where we wear Warewear ... where? Ware!" |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST Date: 10 Mar 17 - 12:54 PM Lots of Irish songs including Cork and New York |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Gardham Date: 09 Mar 17 - 01:44 PM In what way could it not be attributed to a single composer? In this case in particular I don't think the very few minor alterations to some versions could be counted as new compositions, but some people might argue otherwise. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 09 Mar 17 - 10:49 AM Thank you, Steve. Am I foolish to think that it could probably be attributed to a single composer? |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Gardham Date: 09 Mar 17 - 09:26 AM Whilst accepting the possibility of oral tradition intervening I would say the Kendrew version is likely to be closer to the original as 'birds of one feather' is much stronger then 'ants we will have her' so the likelihood of change has surely got to be 'ants' to 'birds' rather than the reverse. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Gardham Date: 09 Mar 17 - 09:12 AM Henry The internal rhyming is pretty random and I'd say there is a strong likelihood that's how it was written. Although there are slight differences pretty much the same 7 stanzas were printed throughout England from c1820 onwards. Kendrew of York's copy has an interesting variation in st. 6. 'So we unite together like ants we will have her. Like bees....... The internal rhyme pattern in earliest versions runs: St 2 line 3. St 4 line 3 St 5 line 1, line 3 St 6 line 3 However there are internal assonant rhymes in other lines 'posed/rover' 'used/usion' 'proach/sort' 'rive/wife' 'round me/story' and the odd bit of alliteration 'Rotherham/ramble' |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Gda Music Date: 09 Mar 17 - 09:04 AM Gilbert O`Sullivan with his 1971 vocal *Nothing Rhymed* (inc lyrics) --- sheer genius! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW2fUrK-j1M GJ |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 09 Mar 17 - 07:45 AM Spencer the Rover is an interesting example; In Yorkshire near Rotherham he had been on his rambles, Being weary of travelling he sat down to rest. At the foot of yonder mountain there runs a clear fountain; With bread and cold water he himself did refresh. As discussed on Mudcat, rather oddly, it appears to have lost some internal rhymes; It tasted more sweeter than the gold he had wasted, More sweeter than honey and gave more content. But the thoughts of his babies lamenting their father Brought tears to his eyes and caused him to lament. His children came around him with their prittle-prattling stories, With their prittle-prattling stories to drive care away. Now they are united like birds of one feather, Like bees in one hive contented they'll stay. Perhaps the words once were; More sweeter it tasted than the gold he had wasted, More sweeter than honey and gave more content. But the thoughts of his babies lamenting their father Brought tears to his eyes and caused him to lament. His children came around him with their prittle-prattling stories, With their prittle-prattling stories to drive care away. Now they are together like birds of one feather, Like bees in one hive contented they'll stay. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Tattie Bogle Date: 08 Mar 17 - 05:46 PM Bad rhymes work well in comic songs IMHO,and apparently this is one of my biggest sins!And I'll overuse them as often as I like! e.g. in my "Puffin Song": Six, seven, eight, nine, ten or more, his beak is heavy laden, It's even harder now to fly, when he is just so weighed-down. Or rhyming "Royal" with "Coyal" (call) And I do love internal rhymes as in the post by Donuel above: Robin Laing has a good few examples in his songs,e.g, in "Punters": And the rats and the voles went back into their holes for some paracetamols. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 08 Mar 17 - 05:35 PM Beans could get no keener re- Ception in a beanery Bless our mountain greenery home! We could find no cleaner re- Treat from life's machinery Than our mountain greenery home Lorenz Hart, trying his hardest/at his most trying |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Joe_F Date: 08 Mar 17 - 05:20 PM There was once a young lady named Maud, A pious society fraud. At tea, I am told, She was proper and cold, But on the veranda -- my gawd! |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Mar 17 - 06:56 AM then there was time i rhymed dawg with Van Gogh Jack Hudson singing. https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/buster-the-line-dancing-dawg |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,Some bloke Date: 08 Mar 17 - 04:42 AM Overused rhymes Songwriters crimes |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Snuffy Date: 08 Mar 17 - 03:06 AM Windsor Castle? There's posh. In the version I learned he sold it south of the river: Oh, he's got a sister Lily, Who's a whore in Piccadilly, And his mother is another in the Strand, And his brother sells his arsehole Round the Elephant & Castle - They're the finest fucking family in the land |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Joe_F Date: 07 Mar 17 - 09:26 PM Oh, my name is Diamond Lilly, I'm a whore in Piccadilly, And my mother runs a brothel in the Strand, And my brother sells his arsehole To the guards in Windsor Castle -- We're the finest fucking family in the land. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Shaw Date: 07 Mar 17 - 06:25 PM Must be bloody posh where you come from, Al. Where I'm from, castle rhymes with hassle and tassel. You'll be telling me next that you pronounce garage "grarge" and Bath "Barth." |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Gardham Date: 07 Mar 17 - 02:17 PM Al, so you're the bugger who wrote..... And me father flogs his arsehole in the Elephant and Castle, Oh, we're the cleanest family in the land. Tune 'Road to the Isles' |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Big Al Whittle Date: 07 Mar 17 - 02:12 PM i was quite pleased when i rhymed arsehole with castle https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/well-done-liz |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Gardham Date: 07 Mar 17 - 01:24 PM And popular songs of all genres are full of cliches full stop. Let's hear it for cliches!! The cliches have it. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: mayomick Date: 07 Mar 17 - 10:22 AM ballads were all composed using "cliched" rhymes .Cliche rhymed the bells in the subconscious hell where balladeers used to dwell ,very much went for the bluesmen as well |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Gardham Date: 06 Mar 17 - 02:37 PM Wonders never cease! Please give us some peace! Who let in the Rhyme Police? |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Donuel Date: 06 Mar 17 - 09:52 AM henry p - Spot On |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 06 Mar 17 - 09:18 AM One off rhymes What do you get when you kiss a guy? You get enough germs to catch pneumonia After you do, he'll never phone ya I'll never fall in love again Hal David When ev'ry night the set that's smart is in- Truding in nudist parties in Studios Anything goes When Rockefeller still can hoard en- Ough money to let Max Gordon Produce his shows Anything goes Cole Porter Sometimes you can write too cleverly Are there some rhymes to be used neverly? Well, who knows? Anything goes |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 06 Mar 17 - 06:31 AM Roses Are Red It's Said All The Time One night even call It An Overused Rhyme |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 05 Mar 17 - 07:29 PM The problem is not the rhymes as such being overused, it is the cliché thoughts that tend to come with them. If your song has a new and original message well told, the rhymes are likely to sound equally fresh. There are in fact rhymes (such as the "Coriolanus" above, which of course I love) that are funny or clever in themselves, and which like all other sorts of joke or witticism can be told to the world only once. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Gda Music Date: 04 Mar 17 - 12:21 PM I am not so sure if the following original lyric entitled *There`s a song* can be regarded as being relevant to this "overused rhyming" thread. I composed it with others in 1952 and have always considered it although brief and a bit repetitive to be rather unusual by having no rhyming lines included. There`s a song That brings back memories to me Of days gone by A song of loves that have been broken And friendships long since past There`s a song That helps me reminisce Recalls to me when I was young That`s the song I`ve lived for And when I die it will live on There`s a song That means so very much to me I can`t forget A song of loves that have been broken And friendships long since past There`s a song That takes me back some time Those yesteryears were long ago That`s the song I`ve lived for And when I die it will live on GJ |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 17 - 10:20 AM That's the spirit Will. Why rhyme in twos when three or more rhymes are more fun like 'The ass hole in that castle treats his vassals like shit'. Even profane rhymes have their place for power and fun. THERE are plenty of good things to be said for repetition. Even musically, the mind expects and anticipates repetition. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,DTM Date: 04 Mar 17 - 07:18 AM "Back - railroad track" "Charm - arms" "Heart - part" "Together -forever" "Wait - gate" "Don't go - love you so" "You - blue" .... ad nauseum. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Andy7 Date: 04 Mar 17 - 04:51 AM It does matter a bit, if a song that's a hit has some corny old rhymes used before countless times. But if the writer has tried, with rhymes too contrived, for original verse, it can often sound worse. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Will Fly Date: 04 Mar 17 - 03:51 AM A huge hit! |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Will Fly Date: 04 Mar 17 - 03:47 AM To be honest, re-reading this thread, all these objections to rhymes are pointless. It won't matter a jot as to whether or not a selection of rhymes have been used several times in ballads or song. There are many things worse in lyrics and verse than plain repetition with no hint of contrition. As long as there's as there's wit I don't give a shit - and in all likelihood it will be huge hit! |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,Tinker from Chicago Date: 04 Mar 17 - 01:31 AM I can live without "waiting" and "anticipating." |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: leeneia Date: 03 Mar 17 - 09:59 PM Good point, Andy. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Andy7 Date: 03 Mar 17 - 06:16 PM Haha, that song also uses 'life/wife' and 'roam/home' in the same verse! |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Joe_F Date: 03 Mar 17 - 05:55 PM Far worse is to reuse the same rhyme within a song, as with "laughed" & "chaffed" etc. in "The Old Armchair". That sort of thing is embarrassing. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Andy7 Date: 03 Mar 17 - 04:48 PM "But I think that if you rhyme mountain and fountain, you should have to make a contribution to a fund for impecunious poets --as a form of atonement." Gulp! A small contribution is on its way ... |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Mar 17 - 04:22 PM As the June light Turns to moon light I'll be on my way. Written by (a very young) Paul McCartney And Jackson Browne deserves a prize for finding so many words to rhyme with Pretender. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Snuffy Date: 03 Mar 17 - 04:18 PM So only a berk or a jerk would say shirk to irk you? |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: JHW Date: 03 Mar 17 - 03:24 PM Please don't rhyme shirk with work. It turns up in songs but nobody ever says shirk in real life. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: leeneia Date: 03 Mar 17 - 02:18 PM There aren't many words that rhyme with love, so I can forgive rhyming love and above. But I think that if you rhyme mountain and fountain, you should have to make a contribution to a fund for impecunious poets --as a form of atonement. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,henryp Date: 03 Mar 17 - 10:54 AM Si Kahn will go over his songs - and take perfect rhymes out. So I'm happy to go along with this; Christmas comes but once a year For poor if not for rich 'uns And spare a thought for turkeys too This year why not try pigeons? |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Will Fly Date: 03 Mar 17 - 06:48 AM My role model for song rhymes is Cole Porter's "Brush Up Your Shakespeare"... If she says your behavior is heinous Kick her right in the Coriolanus |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 03 Mar 17 - 06:13 AM It helps if you can make the wording and/or the tune focus the attention on the beginning of the line so that the rest of the line sort of peters out and nobody really notices obvious rhymes. Robin |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars links Date: 03 Mar 17 - 05:38 AM I try to avoid them together in my songs but don't always succeed . But as indicated above , if the rest of the words in the line are imaginative and well put together the corny factor is minamalized |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Mar 17 - 05:36 AM I'll never accept such things as long as I'm still walking and talking. |
Subject: RE: overused rhymes From: Nigel Parsons Date: 03 Mar 17 - 05:03 AM tune/moon/spoon/June The rhymes can become clichéd, but depending on how well they are put together they can still have the power to move. One or two clichéd rhymes won't spoil a good song. The rhymes were original once. They can also be used for comic effect, depending on what you're looking for. |
Subject: overused rhymes From: Andy7 Date: 03 Mar 17 - 04:59 AM I confess to having used the rhyme 'love/above' in one of my songs. Should we aim always to avoid such overused rhymes when writing songs or poetry? Or should we accept that sometimes nothing else will do the job, and just try to use them in a way that doesn't sound too clichéd? |
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