BS: Trump - Climate Change

Subject: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 02:30 AM

Well done America in allowing your president to sign an executive order reversing climate change measures, and set back any progress in holding back the spiraling damage to the planet's ecology.

The only consolation is that your children and grandchildren are going to be the ones who suffer most, but you all know that their lives don't matter as they can't vote anyway. Well if this leads to the next mass extinction it is a price worth paying if it means that at least your betters will still profit from it all.

So I am sure that you will all go to Trump;s casinos and kneel down an pray to the great $$$$$$$ to protect you.   Amen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 02:37 AM

We didn't "allow" him to write those odious executive orders. Hell, the majority of us voted for Clinton, and we're still trying to figure out how he got to be President.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 05:50 AM

The US has always been an egregious offender in terms of carbon emissions per capita. The oil companies see to that. There have been efforts to mitigate the situation and Trump will undo them. Truth to tell, whatever he does won't make a great deal of difference in four years. In eight, it will. Find yourselves a decent candidate for next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 06:15 AM

Presidential Orders or Proclamations (POOP) are subject to Judicial review. Presidential Orders and Proclamations are not reviewable by Public Referendum.

Right now the Presidency is full of POOP. Bannon is behind this deconstruction of the EPA and their policies. It does not pass the smell test. In fact it stinks.

It will take a new administration to wipe this POOP clean.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Stu
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 06:40 AM

"The only consolation is that your children and grandchildren are going to be the ones who suffer most"

Tell that to the grandchildren of people living in Africa. They'll be suffering far more.


"Well if this leads to the next mass extinction..."

We're in the middle of a mass extinction event that we can't even blame Trump for, and regardless of him and his science denier buddies the whole world needs to rise to that challenge, and that is not happening and I do not think it will.

The US president is no longer the leader of the free world, and looks like Merkel has taken up that mantle, which can only be a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 08:13 AM

There is hope for judicial review here on 3 fronts.
! Administrative grounds. Did the Trump staff screw up and file all the requirements for a binding Executive order. It's not easy as we've seen with the Muslim Ban-non.
2 The President may decide how a law is implemented and enforced
But he may NOT decide whether a law is interpreted and carried out.
Here it depends on the clean air and water act being annulled or ignored in its entirety.
3 Constructional grounds. This is the weakest link for judicial review. IMO

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 08:16 AM

3 Constitutional grounds...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 10:47 AM

Being less ironic - over four years there will be so much damage to repair and unpick. This should, morally, take priority, do to the worldwide as opposed to domestic implications.

Joe, by America, I am referring to the electoral system that got him elected, and this is only one of many challenges that decent Americans will be facing. I do hope my original post is a strong enough kick up the backside form the rest of the world to point out that Trump is playing games with the lives of over 6 billion souls.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 12:07 PM

There will one day be a disaster be it a natural disaster or a man made political disaster. Most likely it will be a Trump call for Marshall law and military action. Whatever the Trump reaction is, there will be a global reaction in which the American people will inherit a moral debt that can never be paid back.

The huckster TV reality star's lies, ignorance and deflections will reduce our land of laws into chaos for a time but it will come to an end sooner or later.

As climate change worsens we all know there will be more refugees than history has ever witnessed before. Two billion displaced people is not unrealistic. Americans will be among their number.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 12:49 PM

Around climate change the progression in terms of world order:

(1) Calls for cooperation to mitigate industrial societies' impact on climate.
(2) Calls for relief and mass migrations as climate change accelerates.
(3) An end to world order, when those affected and are dispossesed take action.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 01:12 PM

SPB, Is that stated in the Paris Accord? Or your wish list.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 01:56 PM

SPB, I still think you ought to look again at the way you say things. It's just not fair to view all members of a group as the same, to force people to feel they need to defend themselves for something they had no part of.

Many of us put our hearts and souls into opposing Trump during the election campaign, and now we're in the resistance. We're working as hard as we can to waylay Trump's plans and to mitigate the damage he's caused.

And yet you lump us all together and blame us all for the things we've fought so hard to oppose.

If we had been able to sway just another five percent of the electorate, the outcome would have been vastly different. And yet because of that five percent, you blame us for the whole nasty mess. Instead of giving us the support and solidarity that we so desperately need in these dire times, you dump nothing but blame on us. That's just not fair.

Put the blame on Trump and his henchmen - that's where it belongs. And then join us in figuring out a way to defeat him and prevent the damage he's causing.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 03:40 PM

The power lies in your hands. I have strongly opposed my government allowing Trump a state visit - signed one of the biggest ever petitions to that effect, which was totally ignored by May. I will probably be out on the streets protesting if Trump does come to the UK. Aside from that, my second post differentiate between the American electoral college system and decent Americans. This executive order is something that the whole world has the right to be angry about.

Donuel, those are my predictions if climate change is not taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 06:51 PM

"...by America, I am referring to the electoral system that got him elected,...

You seem to have no notion of our history and how the electoral college is set up and what it would take to change it.

The power lies in our hands? Only in theory. In this system, the individual states can ignore or vote down attempts to change the Constitution. Imagine Yorkshire or Sussex being able to counter national laws!

There ARE movements and projects and parties opposed to certain aspects of the system, but entrenched interests resist change. We supposedly have voting to deal with bad situations, but in some situations it doesn't work... and YOU ought to know about that after Brexit!

Protest if you must... Trump owns property over there, and he IS the head of state-- for awhile yet. There are indications that might change. ☺

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 04:15 AM

This SPD guy is a no nuthin' Brit who don't understand US poltics and should STFU......Where the f^^k are Acme and Vasta when they're really needed.

Seriously, it's a battle of economic systems. You either commit to all out change with all the negatives and positives, or you let capitalism rip........hypocrisy has no place in this issue, you must understand that you cant....."have it all", that is fairyland politics. Someday "liberals" will be forced to accept that truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 04:51 AM

Let's remember that the next time you attack anyone else here for being rude and abusive. And that doesn't even begin to address the rest of what's wrong with your post.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 06:48 AM

Are you really as dim as you sound?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:03 AM

a no nuthin' Brit who don't understand US poltics and should STFU

Self portrait by ake I suppose?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:14 AM

Actually, the words were not mine, but as they were expelled a little over a month ago, I don't suppose you could be expected to remember?

Another who is a stranger to irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:36 AM

Well they're yours now. I can't believe the sheer hypocrisy of a man who continually bleats about the abuse and insults on this forum who can then come out with the stuff you've come out with this morning. Try going back to bed and getting out the other side. I also think that you are stranger to the meaning of the word irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: goatfell
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:41 AM

Well some did vote for him

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 08:50 AM

A lot more didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 08:59 AM

Are you really as abusive as you sound?

My original post was meant to be a bit as the executive order is one that has repercussions that go beyond American domestic policies. Trump talks about a quick fix for creating jobs, as opposed to getting the corporations to dig into their pockets to invest in industrial restructuring - for example in the north of the UK the EU RECHAR programme which invested in creating alternative employment following wholesale closure of the coal industries (one of the programmes that leavers have either convenviently forgotten about or resent!). OK, you may get your job scheme, but what price does the rest of the world, and America itself, have to pay for it in terms of climate impact?

Why isn't Trump investing in carbon neutral energy sources, or even sources that actively reduce the carbon footprint? Why isn't Trump investing in industrial innovation?

For me these are more relavant than the internal machinisms of the electoral system.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump - Climate Change
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 09:55 AM

I also think that you are stranger to the meaning of the word irony.

A stranger to the meaning of many words, Steve. Liberal and socialist included. Anyone who insists that Trump is a good thing for economics and ecology cannot be a full shilling.

DtG