Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag

Subject: Folklore: Molor - (Gealic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Apr 17 - 04:40 AM

I already posted a House names thread

And this house name was changed to Hill Rise from Molor View (as near as I can tell).
Now Internet Wikitionary searches threw up the possibility it was "Old Irish" without a meaning, but related to molur thus related to molaidir thus molathir/molad thus .................. circular references sans meaning.

The Latinate derivation is "rock or jetty" hence molar
And at some point I happened on "good, laudable etc" so I surmise the house was essentially "Belle View". If the change came in the early 20th C, with the spectre of armed insurrection, having an Irish name would be infra-dig, to say the least.

Any Gaelicophones with more insight?

AND

there is a flag in our locale that looks to be river or canal related but I can't find an internet image that would help. Can the Mudcat?

(Blickies open in new tab/window)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gealic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Apr 17 - 06:04 AM

Flag is Cumbrian - I am told

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Felipa
Date: 17 Apr 17 - 07:56 PM

well, I don't especially think molor is Irish (it could be Klingon!), but "molaidir thus molathir/molad" would be variants of modern Irish "moladh" praise or to praise

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gealic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Apr 17 - 02:43 AM

Wiktionary thinks there is a connection to the Latin molo ( thence to "first-person singular present indicative of molare") (whatever!)
and to "Old" Irish molur etc
It does sound a lot like "Belle View".
The problem with "Old Irish" is the Irish dictionary of the 18th C. It was essentially a word list, sans explanations. And the way Gaelic words are highly dependent on context cf modern English.
Unless there was a decent view over the railway embankment (which would precede the house IMHO) to May Hill, which is impossible, I don't see a Latin reference to rock, and certainly not jetty.
Klingon? er - no! Or "not in this Galaxy" IMNSHO.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gealic?) meaning? & a flag
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 18 Apr 17 - 07:55 PM

Could the house name have referred to the view of a mill, perhaps. The Irish word for a mill is "MUILEANN" but, this has been anglicised as Mullen in many places in Ireland, pronounced as in "Mull (of Kintyre")

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 03:42 AM

Unlikely, apart from the stretch of the letters, the nearest mill (rebuilt 1887) is in a dip about a mile away with 2 railway embankments between. I would guess the town was pretty built up too. The house has a late Victorian, Edwardian look about it. I am pretty sure it was built to be near to the railway station, which is on a line direct to Swindon and thus London.
I am sure there are records that will help me identify some years, like when the name changed. And given that it was carved in stone, it must have been an important reason to want to change it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 06:02 AM

I should have further suggested that the word could have been a mis-spelling coming from a misunderstood, or incorrectly heard, Gaelic word ? but, if a hill enters the view, maybe it resembled a tooth ? Molar ?
Someone else did explain that the word "MOLADH" in modern Irish indicates "praise" or "commendation" . To illustrate :- "Moladh le Dia" which is "Praise be to God"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 06:09 AM

what language is that?
Indonesian, I believe. I found a lot of images with the word Molor on them

in case you didnt understand my reference to Klingon: http://www.startrek.com/database_article/molor

I can imagine someone naming their house "to praise" but it would seem odd to use the form "molur" rather than a more standard form of Irish. and we dont know any reason why the inhabitants or house owner would have chosen that language. What about place names, what hill can be viewed from the house, might it be called Molor? A local placenames society may have information.

a house called "Molar Hill"; belongs to a dentist: http://towndock.net/img/11476.jpg

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 06:40 AM

It is also the name of a hotel in Mongolia which gets only one review on TripAdvisor, and it's bad.

I think it's a composite from the owners' names, something like Morris and Lorraine. There's a house in Bo'ness (West Lothian) called "Nosirrom" and no that isn't Gaelic or Pictish.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 06:49 AM

You should delete the caption "old Irish for beauty" from the photo as there is no justification for that interpretation of "Molor", Mr Red

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 06:19 PM

I'll change it to "?". The statement may be correct, the connection is definitely speculative.
Once I have a date for the change it would support one aspect or not, regardless of the derivation..

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Apr 17 - 06:36 PM

The aspect is slightly downhill (with sides of the Severn Valley behind) and the only hills in view are the railway embankment, and another if that wasn't there. May Hill with it's conifers on top is maybe 15 miles away, obscured the railway.

Indonesian translation is sleep - which doesn't wake me up!

Thanx 4 all your suggestions. I will be at a wedding of Maura who is a hoot. She speaks modern Irish, between the swear words. Maybe she can throw some light on the subject. But I still favour "Belle View" as the intended impression, unless there was humour in likening the railway embankment to a jetty. And portmanteau concoctions from peoples' names is often the case with obscure house names.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 May 17 - 06:19 AM

a fellow member at the Stonehouse History Group found a reference in a census to a senior employee of the Railway Company who lived in a house called "Motor View" in that street. At that time, before cars, there was a regular railcar - a loco and a carriage - where the loco was referred to as the motor.
I assume when cars became relatively common it would have been infra-dig to live in a car!
And from my modern viewpoint - why would I have chosen motor as the word? Didn't strike me!
Looking at the photo, this is probably seals the issue. More mundane than my hopes, but just as interesting.
The project had a "Social History" dimension, after all.

case dismissed!

PS this all came out in a 10 minute presentation to the Group, another was "Noahs Ark Cottage" which a listener confirmed was very much in the flood plain, and it floods. Victorian mores didn't prevent individual humour at least. The image is fuzzy due to distance and courtesy - pointing cameras near windows is - er - um - sensitive.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Molor - (Gaelic?) meaning? & a flag
From: Thompson
Date: 13 May 17 - 09:48 PM

Maybe it was built for a dentist ;)