Origins: Peat Fire Flame (Kenneth MacLeod)

Subject: Lyrics Request - Peat Fire Flame
From:
Date: 23 May 97 - 07:01 AM

Looking for the lyrics of Peat Fire Flame. It was sung by the MacDonald Sisters on "Songs of Scotland" Emporio EMPRCD590 1995.

Subject: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 09:54 AM

I've made MP3's of a couple of songs the copyright status of which I am unclear on. I would like to post them to the page I am developing at mp3.com, but need to be able to certify that they're PD to do so.

The songs are:

1. The Land of MacLeod aka I Will Go, which is in the DT andhas been discussed several times here; it was apparently translated loosely from Gaelic to English by the late Roddy MacMillan, so I dunno...
2. The Peat Fire Flame, not in the DT or anywhere else I have looked, which I learned from "Songs of the Hebrides", (M K Fraser et al) but the lyric credit says it was written by the book's co-editor Kenneth MacLeod, as "a companion piece to 'Road To The Isles'".

   These are fancy schmancy digital recordings with some excellent players on them, and I've had them filed away for several years, so I really want to put them on my MP3 site. Any solid info or leads appreciated.

   Willie-O aka Bill Cameron

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: MMario
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 10:26 AM

This site: here

url=http://www.asv.co.uk/aja5283.htm

implies that Peat Fire Flame dates back into the forties, minimum;

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:39 AM

It appeared in MacLeod's book The Road to the Isles (1927); if it was written more-or-less at the same time as the song The Road to the Isles, that would take it back to the Great War period.  Boosey and Hawkes held the copyright, which I think was renewed in 1958.  Land of MacLeod is probably still in copyright.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 01:10 PM

Right, thanks Malcolm, Mmario. Malcolm, which are you saying was renewed in 1958--Road to the Isles, Peat Fire Flame, or both? And do you happen to know if this is an international copyright, or British, or ? I'm not up on the international aspects of copyright law...

I can't find the book I learned Peat Fire from, but it may have been the one you cite. Nice tune, anyway. I believe I've subsequently heard it sung by Kenneth McKellar, but I learned it straight out of the book.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 02:23 PM

I was referring to Peat Fire Flame, and oddly enough got the information from a Kenneth McKellar record!  It just said "Boosey, (P)1958": I assumed that that represented a renewal, but on reflection it may just have been the most recent date of publication.  As I understand it (which is to say, hardly at all), UK copyright expires 70 years after the death of the originator; this would mean for example that Majorie Kennedy-Fraser (d. 1930) should now be public domain here; though obviously the situation may be very different elsewhere.  I haven't so far managed to find out when MacLeod died, however, which is probably what you need to know.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: MMario
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 02:31 PM

"Dr. Kenneth Macleod, who died in 1955 and was famous for his joint editing of "Songs of the Hebrides," wrbte "The Road to the Isles," published in 1927. "

url=http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~iforshaw/Mag25/page7.html

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 03:17 PM

Well done MMario!  That's it, then: both still in copyright.  Just as a postscript, the book Road To The Isles (1927) contains text only; Peat Fire Flame was of course written earlier, though I don't know the date, or who was responsible for the music.  If Kennedy-Fraser wrote it, or if it was an existing tune, it may well be PD by now, in which case an instrumental version would be ok.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 02:40 AM

Apply MCPS, South London, for recording licence.

Subject: RE: Copyrighted? Peat Fire Flame, I Will Go
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 14 Jun 00 - 06:53 PM

the words of The Peat Fire Flame were unsuccessfully sought last year in the Kenneth MacKeller thread. Could someone now add the lyrics?

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PEAT-FIRE FLAME (Kenneth MacLeod)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Jun 00 - 07:43 PM

THE PEAT-FIRE FLAME  (A TRAMPING SONG)

Kenneth MacLeod

Far away and o'er the moor,
Morar waits for a boat that saileth;
Far away, down Lowland way,
I dream the dream I learned, lad,
By the light of the peat-fire flame,
Light for love, for lilt o' grail-deeds,
By the light of the peat-fire flame-
The light the hill-folk yearn for.

Far away, down Lowland way,
Grim's the toil without tune or dream, lad;
All you need's a creel and love,
For the dream the heart can weave, lad,
By the light of the peat-fire flame,
Light for love, for lilt, for laughter,
By the light of the peat-fire flame-
The light the hill-folk yearn for.

Far away the tramp and tread,
Tune and laughter af all the heroes,
Pulls one onward o'er the trail
Of the dream my heart may weave, lad,
By the light of the peat-fire flame,
Light for love, for lilt, for laughter,
By the light of the peat-fire flame-
The light the hill-folk yearn for.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Fire Flame + I Will Go
From: GUEST,Dave Rado
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:30 PM

The Hebrides folk songs that Kenneth MacLeod translated into English from the Gaelic, including those mentioned in this thread, were all traditional folk songs dating back centuries. As such he shouldn't be credited as an author (any more than a translator of a Chekhov play into English is credited as the author of the play); and no copyright applies.

Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Fire Flame + I Will Go
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:50 PM

Translations are copyrightable too. Particularly those like Macleod's which involved massive rewriting of the original.

Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Fire Flame + I Will Go
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 08:55 AM

Thanks for that. I came by the words easily for Peat Fire Flame but now I know about the MacLeod translation as well.

Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Fire Flame + I Will Go
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:02 AM

The tune's outline much resembles "My Bonnie Hieland Laddie."

Are Gaelic words known? Is there a closer translation?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Peat Fire Flame
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 03:39 PM

https://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/Music_P_files/P027_Peat.htm

Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Fire Flame (Kenneth MacLeod)
From: Felipa
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 07:38 PM

In some cases, Kenneth MacLeod wrote original lyrics to pipe tunes rather than loosely translating or rewriting Gaelic songs. From my reading, this appears to be the case with "The Road to the Isles" put "to an air played on the chanter by Malcolm Johnson of Barra"* and also The Peat Fire Flame put "to a tune played on the chanter by Malcolm Johnson."

I have a pdf of a small book of "Songs of the Hebrides for Schools" which are distilled from the Marjorie Kennedy Fraser publications. When a song was originally collected in Gaelic, the Gaelic lyrics are published as well as the English. There are no Gaelic lyrics included for The Peat Fire Flame. The English lyrics for both The Peat Fire Flame and The Road to the Isles are attributed to Kenneth MacLeod and the tunes to the playing of Malcolm Johnson.

* ""The Road to the Isles" is a famous tune composed by Pipe Major John McLellan DCM which was originally called ‘The Bens of Jura’, though it previously had other titles. It is part of the Kennedy-Fraser collection and it appeared in a book entitled 'Songs of the Hebrides' published in 1917, with the eponymous title by the Celtic poet Kenneth Macleod" Wikipedia, with footnote crediting a somewhat long-winded article https://www.must-see-scotland.com/road-to-the-isles "The Session" tune website credits the composition of that tune to Pipe Major John McLellan of Dunoon. The Road to the Isles is in the Digital Tradition, but the only Mudcat discussion I've seen is about parodies of the song, not MacLeod's lyrics. The DT incorrectly states that the song is a translation. And the "Tradition in Action" webpage cited by Joe Offer incorrectly says that the Peat Fire Flame is an adaptation of the original Gaelic song.

I had written more briefly on this topic previously, but many Mudcat posts from late March & early April have been wiped. I can't find now the website reference for the pdf of the ten "Songs of the Hebrides for Schools".

Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Fire Flame (Kenneth MacLeod)
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Apr 22 - 02:42 PM

Thanks, Felipa. That settles that!

As for "Bens of Jura"/ "Road to the Isles," its composer, PM McLellan.
also referred to it as "The Burning Sands of Egypt" (my personal choice of the three).

https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Burning_Sands_of_Egypt_(The)