BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question

Subject: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jun 17 - 04:27 PM

I recently watched the late 70s British series "Danger UXB" and for my money it held up well as well cast, well acted, highly watchable television.

It reminded me of an old question that I never got the answer to, viz:

The series is based on the de-fusing of unexploded bombs from German air-raids on British cities, mainly London. Early in the series we learn that many of the bombs are fitted with special electrically powered fuses designed by the Germans not to detonate on impact with the ground, but to lie dormant until a timer or a motion sensor sets them off. The purpose was to tie up rescue resources and ideally kill them.

My question: Did the British return the favor and design similar bombs to be used on German civilian centers?

There are many unexploded bombs still in the ground in Germany. Were these just manufactured defectively or the result of artifice?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 17 - 10:27 PM

Yes, the USAAF and the RAF both dropped them.

The usual purpose was to have the bomb penetrate, say, a building or an underground bunkerand then explode. However, if the bombs missed they laid and lay in wait for a specified time and then exploded. That's the theory.

In practice, the theory didn't hold up. Bombsights were well within the levels of accuracy that could be hoped for at the time, but the bombardiers were human. Humans can miss, especially when the plane is rocked by ack-ack, being attacked by other plances, etc. And in carpet bombing no accuracy is really expected -- just lay a carpet of bombs across a section of ground.

As the War went on bombs were more and more fitted with anti-movement devices. Move the bomb slightly, contacts close, and those nearby get harps and wings. Anti-lift devices were also built in so that a bomb could be cleared and then when it was lifted.... These devices were and are also used on land mines.   This was done by both sides.

To make matters worse, some of the explosives used (e.g., picric acid) can become very unstable after a period of time.

And still worse, it's estimated that 25 to 30 percent of all the ordnance used was defective.

It was also done in the Pacific. Japan, and especially on Okinawa, very often find such bombs. The island of Betio in the Tarawa atoll (now Kiribati) is another place. The Democratic Republic of the Congo, South Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Iraq...you can name more places.

Worldwide, the problem of UXO (UneXploded Ordnance) is tremendous. From rifle cartridges to bombs to cluster bombs to boobytraps to land mines, people are killed and injured every day by the "unexploded remnants of war". The UXO doesn't care what side you were on. They'll kill the winners as well as the losers and anyone else without care for civilian or combatant, young or old.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 04:24 AM

In the UK according to the Construction Industry Research and Information Association (CIRIA), from 2006 to 2009 over 15,000 items of ordnance were found in construction sites. There is also the wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery, sunk in shallow water about 1.5 miles ) from the town of Sheerness and 5 miles from Southend, which still contains 1,400 tons of explosives. When the deeper World War II wreck of the Kielce, carrying a much smaller load of explosives, exploded in 1967, it produced an earth tremor measuring 4.5 on the Richter scale.j

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 07:48 AM

the Liberty Ship SS Richard Montgomery is only about 2 miles from the Oil Refinery and a Tsunami is sure to be created.

It was deemed too dangerous to remove half of the ordnance at the time, and it is known that the explosive is unstable over time. I wonder what security the authorities put in place visa vis IRA and now ISIL.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 10:51 AM

Here in land-locked Idaho we also have problems. The local airport was a bomber training base in WW2 and about 40,000 people trained there. Of course, they needed target areas and the hills and desert around were used. The US Navy relined "big guns" at an ordnance plant here, then they were tested on the land that is now Idaho National Laboratory. A half-dozen Panzerfausts were found in the hills a little NE of town during a wildfire a couple years ago; apparently the US military brought them back from Germany during the war, tested them, and threw them away -- EOD people took care of them. Farragaut Navy Base trained submariners (yes, up on lake Couer d'Alene) and there are ERW scattered there.

Be careful -- you don't know what's out there!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 03:50 PM

If you come across anything treat it with extreme care.
Back in the 70s, clearing overgrowth in the garden, I came across something labelled "Smoke float, to dispose pierce (X) and drop in deep water". It had not been pierced so I called the local police. They looked at it, told me they had once put a similar one in the car and it had started smoking, so they called the bomb disposal people.

It turned out to have been opened on the lower side once the bomb squad had dug it out and turned it over!

However, that was only a maritime distress signal implement and the bomb squad insisted that the right course of action had been taken, so don't risk things.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 17 - 11:03 PM

When I was a little kid in 1960s South West England we used to play in a disused derelict warehouse
that was used as a US munitions storage facility during the war...

We were regularly unearthing rusted bullets and other stuff in ditches and hedge rows,
but I don't remember us ever managing to get anything to go bang...???

..even if placed on nearby rail lines when the Steam Trains chuffed by...


First time I've remembered this in decades..
wish I could recall more detail.

It's now all gone and landscaped - ponds and skatepark.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 05:50 AM

When holidaying at Barmston and Skipsea on the East Yorks coast as a kid in the very early 60s we used to find quite a lot of bullet casings and occasionally a live round up on the cliffs around the various pill-boxes and bunkers. I remember once taking 3 live .303 rounds back to the caravan. Dad wasn't amused.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 06:22 AM

I was once burning wood offcuts in carrier bags found in a house I had just bought. As my kids were sitting around the bonfire, I thought that although the timber was pine, the wood was spitting in a rather lively fashion. Raking the embers the following morning I saw the remnants of two clips of 303 ammo. You can never be too careful. I subsequently found another 300 rounds in an oxo tin in the house. Some months later I received a letter from the authorities asking if my "find" could be destroyed.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 08:02 AM

Magazine Storage Explosion 

There remains unexploded WW2 ordnance in harbour sediments in the upper portion of the Canadian port of Halifax, Nova Scotia. This requires special care when the harbour floor area is dredged for harbour traffic deeping and dock facillity initiatives.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 10:00 AM

Explosions.... Incomplete, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Danger UXB' WWII Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 17 - 10:47 AM

Reminds me...

one of our family stories which may have firm basis in truth....

My Grandad worked in a west country ROF for some time in the 50s or the 60s...

A catasthrophic industrial accident occurred - ie, an explosion.

Because grandad was an older ex army man and had seen extensive action at Dunkirk,
it was assumed by management that he would be the 'right man' to task with recovering and bagging body parts...