BS: No One Is Above the Law?

Subject: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 12:46 AM

The recent Clerical abuse of children thread drifted off topic, and was closed - but it brougnt up song interesting topics. Iains, talking about travellers defying legal restrictions against placement of caravans in certain locations, used the adage "nobody is above the law." It's my belief that the adage applies mostly to the powerful, not to the powerless who are unable enact laws - but I have to admit that the adage is usually considered to be a universal principle that applies to all.

But I don't like how the adage is used. In recent years in the U.S., people have used the adage against immigrants and against homeless people. Public opinion is against both immigrants and the homeless, so governmental bodies have enacted laws to control the outcasts of society. And then people say very nicely, I sympathize with them and they should be allowed to do so-and-so, but they should follow the law to do what they need to do.

At this, my alarm bells ring. Wait! There's something about this that reeks of basic injustice, no matter how righteous it sounds. My ancestors all immigrated to the U.S. before the first comprehensive immigration laws were passed in 1925. I think those laws were heavily influences by the eugenics movement and other bigotry, and did their best to preserve the white, northern European character of the American race. The doors were open to northern Europeans (unless they were Slavic), and immigration by Africans, Southern Europeans, Asians, and Latin Americans was severely restricted. The laws were meant to prevent "the browning of America," which is a term is absolutely hate. The immigration laws were written in very pleasant language, but they were viciously racist.

And now we have Americans who consider these immigration laws to be sacred, and they think it's immoral that immigrants would have the gall to break the law to escape violence and poverty to move to a land of relative safety. They're very nice about it, but they believe that immigrants must follow the law when they immigrate - even though the law is racist and unjust.

And these very nice people always bring up the adage, "Nobody is above the law." As I said above, I think the adage was meant to apply to those in power, but it has been twisted so that it serves to oppress the oppressed.

I think this adage is generally considered to be a basic principle of democracy. Where does this adage come from, and what is its intent?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:57 AM

I always feel that the adage, as quoted, is missing a vital element which was inherent at the point at which it was coined - that element consisting of words along the lines of, "No matter how elevated their position in society may be".

I don't believe it was intended as a warning to the lowly to behave themselves, rather the opposite - a warning to the rich and powerful that even they are subject to the law, and not to fool themselves that they can do as they like by virtue of their wealth and power.

That's how my parents explained it to me, and how I've always understood it.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:58 AM

I agree with that, but remember the phrase is about being ABOVE the law, rather than, for example, beyond. To me, that is clearly implying that it is saying status does not excuse you.

A noble sentiment, but I am afraid one with little relationship to reality. Anything punishable just by a fine, for example, is life threatening to the poor but virtually irrelevant to the super-rich. Similarly, money has always been able to engage lawyers to minimise the risk in a way the poor cannot. Making the law apply equally to all is incedibly difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:58 AM

I agree with that, but remember the phrase is about being ABOVE the law, rather than, for example, beyond. To me, that is clearly implying that it is saying status does not excuse you.

A noble sentiment, but I am afraid one with little relationship to reality. Anything punishable just by a fine, for example, is life threatening to the poor but virtually irrelevant to the super-rich. Similarly, money has always been able to engage lawyers to minimise the risk in a way the poor cannot. Making the law apply equally to all is incedibly difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:22 AM

This phone is horrible for double entries, making phone calls I dont want, sending emoji to people at random. A different make will be chosen next time, methinks.

Apologies for the duplication.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:29 AM

Joe. The statement raises many issues and can be discussed on many levels.
1)The Catalan Referendum was banned by the Spanish government. It is also a human right to seek freedom. (From the preamble of the American Constitution: Second, to "secure the blessings of liberty", which were to be enjoyed by not only the first generation, but for all who came after, "our posterity)
It can be legitimately asked what is the superior law in this instance?
I use the preamble merely as an example because open societies aspire to the same ideal.

2)Another example is travellers. The vast majority now live in houses/flats/apartments and a small minority still travel. This small sector is a living anachronism like bodgers and coopers. If the vast majority of the population have to abide by a codified set of laws in order for society to function, why should a small group have the arrogance to suppose they can ignore whatever part of the legal code suits and create misery for thousands, besides costing the ratepayer vast sums? I do not have to give examples, the newspapers are full of them. They continue to try to live the life that has gone the way of the dodo. There is no place for it in the modern world-the same as armies no longer use bows and arrows.

3)Another example is International Corporations employing weasels as accountants and lawyer, and armies of lobbyists and distributors of largesse, in order to bend the law to their own ends.

4)Multi millionaires can also fund means of exempting themselves from the financial controls that ordinary people are constrained with.

There are no easy answers and it seems no one size fits all.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:49 AM

I think what Joe is saying is that "the poor" should be allowed to disregard the law, because they have been failed by society.

Well that way lies chaos......Society must be altered or allowed to evolve into something better, but always within the law.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:24 AM

Ake. Admirably demonstrated on the other thread by the attempted anarchy by striking miners.

This concept of being above the law extends to countries also.
The US in Syria has no legal justification whatsoever, as is true of Israeli incursions and activity by the coalition on sovereign Syrian soil.
The activities concerning the search of Russian Embassy properties in the US also represents flagrant breaches of international protocols.
There are also other wars that have been fought without UN mandate.
Are those responsible above the law?

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:47 AM

Even being 'stoned' does not excuse illegal action. To quote Snoopy "Nobody is so high that the law is not above him".

Actually, Snoopy may have been quoting Abe Lincoln.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:24 AM

Iains self imposed and intolerant ignorance of the Travellers real situation is the most astounding piece of racist viciousness I have come across and highly dangerous if it were widely shared (did you say you were a Christian – I can't remember and am unable to work it out?
That Traveller lifestyle I not chosen – it is what they weer born to – life in houses to them is as alien as life on the road would be to us if it was forced on us – they were once an essential part of British life, modernisation has left them behind
Describing their life as obsolete, as you do is inhuman and obscene – the stuff holocausts have been made of.
This is probably the most blatantly inhuman indifferent display of ignorance of the plight of an entire community in trouble I have ever encountered and it relates perfectly to whether laws should (or even can) be obeyed
In the early 1960s MacColl and the Radio ballads team interviewed Traveller after Traveller explaining their plight regarding being able to stop, one man described it perfectly "they won't let us stop and they won't let us move – we have nowhere to go – where are we supposed to go"
MacColl summed it up in one of his most bitter songs:

"The hard eyed men who guard the road, they bid us choose our way;
And yet they will not let us go nor will they let is stay"

That remains the case with Travellers fifty odd years later, if anything, it's got worse.
The Radio Ballad 'The Travelling People' and other sympathetic campaigns of behalf of the Travellers brought about changes and introduced compulsory provision of sites for a woefully inadequate number of Travellers – those laws were repealed by the John Major Government, creating a situation worse than it had been fifty years earlier – no sites, no protection under the law.
The Travellers that have managed to find settled accommodation, less than a tenth of the population, are housed in walled ghettos totally unsuitable to house the size of familles they are meant for – they are not even consulted regarding their needs, they have no choice in the matter, so their lives are planned by people who share Iains ignorance and antipathy
Rather stupidly, they are built on contract by firms who immediately inflate their process when they realise what the accommodation is to be used for, paid for by taxpayers money
The overwhelming majority of Travellers do not wish to settle – that is no more their lifestyle as ours would be if we house dwellers were suddenly forced on the road - their life and work depends on their being able to move
Ironically, a basic site to house several families of the types in Bristol or Swindon, costs a tiny fraction of one of these ghettoes housing one family.
Travellers move into houses because they are forced to, not out of choice – a few women accept the idea, the rest usually develop mental-stress and social problems through being forced out of their natural life-style.
They cannot afford to buy housing, are usually refused the right to rent, if they are housed in council property, they are met with hostility and often actual violence.
A simple question Iains, if this is the situation (if it isn't please show it isn't), what else can they do but break the law, short of putting an end to their own lives and those of their families – the suiide ratee among a group that has no significant record of such has increased alarmingly – six times greater than that of the settled population
Ake gives us the old usual pro-establishment garbage
British society has now reached a crossroads; the continuing rise in the gap between haves and have nothings has brought us to the point what the present situation will have to be maintained by force or it will have to be consciously changed to encompass the needs of all
Laws are made by the have-everything's of this world – they are not going to allow society to develop and undermine their position – evolution is not even a runner in this race
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:46 AM

I thought it was about Nixon.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:59 AM

Carroll I made my position on lawbreaking perfectly clear. If you wish to continue supporting criminals parked up illegally, while composing odes to toxic tips, that is your affair. Also I was born with no clothes and knew jack shit. Hopefully I cured the latter two failings.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:02 AM

The "Travellers" of today have absolutely nothing in common with the old Tinker families I remember from my boyhood.
Many a night they sat in front of our old range and told their stories. We were as poor as they were, but they had chosen their lifestyle and would have cut off their hands, before they would steal or harm "their own kind" who happened to live in a house!

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:38 AM

"The "Travellers" of today have absolutely nothing in common with the old Tinker families I remember from my boyhood."
Romantic shite that belongs between the pages of George Borrow
"Carroll I made my position on lawbreaking perfectly clear."
Just as you have made clear your lack of humanity
I asked what should be done about Travellers in teh present situation - your refuse to reply, which makes you what you are
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:48 AM

Carroll I think our conversation is finished.You prattle on like a rusty old tin can that some fool keeps kicking down the road.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:10 AM

"I think our conversation is finished"
Never had a doubt it would be
You fit Billy Connolly's description of a policeman perfectly – "if you want to frighten him, ask him a question"
You people will not accept the consequences of your bigoted hatred – in this case, ethnic cleansing
Ake, supposing your quaint description of what real Travellers are, were true – what do YOU propose should happen to those who don't fit your rosy image - this perhaps?

From the note to 'Winds of Change' in the MacColl songbook
While collecting information for the above Radio-Ballad, producer Charles Parker interviewed Alderman Harry Watton, J.P., of Birmingham:
Watton: How far does it come in your mind before you say: 'I have done everything I possibly can ... and I will help the broad mass of these people, but there are some I can do nothing with whatsoever.'
Then doesn't the time arise in one's mind when one has to say: 'All right, one has to exterminate the impossibles ...'
Parker:        Exterminate - that's a terrible word. Surely you don't ... mean that ...?
Watton: Why not?   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 11:40 AM

Jim, I remember clearly what the real tinkers were like, they were part and parcel of our community, they just preferred another way of life.......many envied them.

Today, so called travellers use their "special status" to flout the law and often to carry out serious criminal activities.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 12:41 PM

I don't give a shit what you remember from your limited experience - I recorded them for thirty years and took down exactly what life was like in the frist pert of the twentieth century throughout Britain and Ireland
I asked you what you would do with those who don't conform to your stereotype middle-class image (part of Travelling People rdio Ballad recorded from locals just like you)
You decline to answer
Yours and Iain's silence is answer enough - you agree with the Harry Watton 'Final Solution' - I never doubted it for a minute
Your description of "special status" which includes being forvced to live on sites without running wwater and sanitation, (the tiny minority who are luckyy enough to find somewhere to stop) is a racist echo of how the Nazis described the Jews.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/discriminating-against-gypsies-and-travellers-is-common-across-britain-report-finds-a6919651.html
"SPECIAL STATUS"

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:42 PM

Jim you are now getting very very boring!

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 04:28 PM

Those who do not conform to the law of our country should face the same penalties as non travellers.
Thieving, drug selling, extortion with menace, littering and anti social behaviour, are all crimes which are carried out by travellers and non travellers alike, both groups should be dealt with forcefully, but unfortunately travellers use their "Special Status" to avoid punishment.......a situation created by "liberals" and politically correct idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 05:13 PM

Rubbish. There is no special status that allows people to break the law and get away with it more than anyone else. There is potentially the privilege that you may not be as tightly investigated in a timely manner, but that applies far more to the likes of politicians fiddling their expenses and to the likes of Jimmy Savile, and, unfortunately, to bent coppers of the likes of those in charge at Hillsborough or those at Orgreave. Not to travelling people. Stop making things up.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 05:46 PM

" There is no special status that allows people to break the law and get away with it more than anyone else."
Perhaps true! They are more inclined to bend the law or simply rewrite it. More than a few BBC employees came unglued when they suddenly got taken on the books after HMRC launched a probe into whether stars had incorrectly declared themselves to be self-employed. Multinationals are being probed for european tax avoidance, but the EU is planning a turnover tax to scupper their devious shenanigins. The panama papers have shed light on the dodgy financial dealings of the elite. The special status they have is oodles of boodle to grease their slippery way ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 06:06 PM

The law applies to everyone equally. What does not apply equally to everybody is access to the very best, most expensive legal advice. What does not apply equally to everybody is the obsequious and indulgent way we behave towards people of the establishment, whether they be churchmen, politicians or telly celebrities. But that doesn't put them above the law. It does put them more above scrutiny than the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 06:13 PM

Ake says: Those who do not conform to the law of our country should face the same penalties as non travellers.

That's the same argument that many in the U.S. use against immigrants and homeless people. They pass packages of laws intended to make life impossible for the homeless and immigrants, and then they say how horrible it is that the homeless and immigrants fail to obey the law.

Some laws are unjust, no matter how self-righteous the lawgivers may be.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 06:23 PM

Well said, Joe. The law can be an ass. It isn't that easy to laugh at every ass, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 07:09 PM

It is a very valid point that lack of access to adequate legal advice
creates miscarriages of Justice.The Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders (Laspo) Act, which came into effect in 2013(UK) has severely restricted funding.The year before the act nearly one million
cases were granted legal aid, the year after number dropped 50%. The more that is paid for both legal and financial advice, then the safer it is too sail close to the wind even though there be dragons and reefs.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:06 AM

"The law applies to everyone equally. What does not apply equally to everybody is access to the very best, most expensive legal advice."

Well, Well, welcome to the real world at last Steve. So at last you admit that "equality" in this form of society is a myth.
Money rules everything, every facet, even the law, but unless you want to see social chaos we make the best of it.

Do you really think granting EVERYONE access to the best, most expensive legal representation, the best most expensive education, the best most expensive health care is possible?

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:17 AM

"Some laws are unjust, no matter how self-righteous the lawgivers may be."
Well regarding the drug dealing and money lending that is the economy in many areas of the UK and I suppose America, I also suppose it is the only economy which exists in these areas, but is the law an ass to prosecute people who are working in that economy?
People break the law to make money. If that money is to ensure their wellbeing, should we allow it?

I repeat that way lies chaos.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:19 AM

I think people are of the mistaken belief that the "law" and "justice" are the same - they are not, never have been.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:31 AM

The application of the law is tweaked by expensive lawyers. Justice is the fickle finger of fate guided by the depth of wallet and the argument purchased.

This is not the justice as defined in a dictionary, but the justice encountered in real life.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:47 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 06:06 PM
The law applies to everyone equally. What does not apply equally to everybody is access to the very best, most expensive legal advice. What does not apply equally to everybody is the obsequious and indulgent way we behave towards people of the establishment, whether they be churchmen, politicians or telly celebrities.

That, unfortunately, works both ways.
Would so much police time & money have been spent investigating Jimmy Savile, Edward Heath & Cliff Richard if they had not been celebrities/politicians? Especially as two of them are not here to face any possibility of prosecution, or of defending themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 03:58 AM

Savile would have been sprung years before if he had not been a celebrity and had powerful people watching his back. Not sure about the others, its not clear that they have done anything.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Kampervan
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 04:01 AM

The 'LAW' is a set of rules by which society should agree to live. Unfortunately those rules are frequently made by people with a very personal agenda and thus, frequently,there are 'bad' laws which must be changed.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 04:17 AM

"Jim you are now getting very very boring!"
Then why not say something worthwhile yourself rather than constantly throwing about childish insults - failing that, why not just piss off and leave the adults to it?
"People break the law to make money."
To confine lawbreaking in this discussion is a display of contempt both for what people have written and to those who break the law out of necessity due to shortfalls in our system - Travellers being a case ion point
Travellers have nowhere to stop so they break the law rather than burn their home and go join the growing number sleeping in shop doorways
Should we allow it - of course we ****** should, what else should we do - gas them?
She most costly and widely practiced crime in Britain today is corporate corruption and tax evasion, not tax fiddles but massive frauds and schemes not tp pay what is due from all of us
That goes virtually unpunished and largely ignored - it's even built into our system that multi-millionaire firms like Google and Starbucks pay no tax.
Reducing criminality to stealing and drugs and targeting those who steal to feed their families is contemptible when you choose to ignore the real criminals of our society - those who rum it and make the laws
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 04:24 AM

"Jimmy Savile,"
Savile's cries were known about long before he was prosecuted - those who knew about it not only covered up for him but they facilitated his crimes by continuing to allow him access to his victims - another case of double-standards between haves and have nots
Had he not been wealthy Saville would never have been to commit the crimes he did an, if found raping, he would never have nbeen able to buy his way out.
"Pity the poor millionaire" really does not work, certainly now with scul like Savile, whose crimes are unquestionable no matter how dead he is
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 04:53 AM

"Jim you are now getting very very boring!"
It is very straightforward Jim. No one will deny you are passionate in your arguments, but not everyone agrees with your point of view, or your interpretations.If you continue to belabour and inflame with your offerings inevitably the thread gets closed. That just leaves the discussion hanging and satisfies no one. (you are by no means the only guilty one)

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 07:00 AM

"but not everyone agrees with your point of view,"
Of course they dont - these forums would be a waste of space if everybody adreed
I expect intelligent, adult argument, not your mindless insulting or Teribus's strutting display-bullying - that's simple good manners and a sign of haveing been up decently
I have never closed a thread - you and your threads have closed several recently
Nor have I ever been reprimanded or warned
Don't make up "Carroll shit" thoug it has become a defence of some brain-deads when they run out of arguments
If you want to debate - do so with respect for those you debate with
If toy want to hurl insults, go find a schoolyard or arm yourself with a tin of graffiti paint and a brush
Simples
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 08:40 AM

Getting back to Joe's original post, he asked where the adage came from and, what is its intent?

Article 7 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law." It was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly at its 3rd session on 10 December 1948 as Resolution 217 at the Palais de Chaillot in Paris, France.

Sure looks good on paper, but I think we can all see that the last part of the declaration is largely wishful thinking.
It is also quite obvious that a large body of law exists where men are discriminated against under the law on the basis of race, colour and sexual orientation.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 08:52 AM

At the moment, under the law, Heterosexuals are discriminated against under the law as opposed to homosexuals.
Homosexuals can be "married", single, or in a civil union.
Heterosexuals can only be married or single.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 09:00 AM

For christ's sake Ake - leave your hatred in the shithole it merits
Within my lifetime the natural act of homosexuality was being dealt with by chemical castration - that includes one of our great war heroes - Alan Turin
Give us a rest from your obsessive bigotry - which, hopefully will be as illegal as openly expressed racism before too long
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 10:29 AM

Oh dear, and it was all going so well.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 11:21 AM

I could say the same Baccy
You may be happy to continue letting ake use this as a hate platform.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 12:23 PM

No, Jim. It was him I was referring to. Just ignore the stupid, homophobic fucker.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 02:20 PM

Nothing homophobic about it, I was simply illustrating how unfair the law can be.......of course you idiots never see anything but what you want to see.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 04:41 PM

So, akenaton, are you saying that homosexuals are above the law, or, alternatively, that they simply abide by it?

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 03:09 AM

My post was a direct response to Joe's OP....They (homosexuals) abide by the law, and we(heterosexuals) have to abide by the discrimination, as it is highly unlikely to be changed.....for reasons of convenience in taxation, benefits etc.

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 04:42 AM

"No, Jim. It was him I was referring to. Just ignore the stupid, homophobic fucker."
Sorry Baccy - posted this yesterday but it didn't go off
My apologies, I was in knee-jerk mood and shouldn't have been so quick off the mark
It didn't stop his *****bashing rant though, did it - still in there, kicking with both feet
They used to travel in packs
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 04:55 AM

😄😄

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 05:08 AM

Ake sez:

At the moment, under the law, Heterosexuals are discriminated against under the law as opposed to homosexuals.
Homosexuals can be "married", single, or in a civil union.
Heterosexuals can only be married or single.

Not so, Ake. You, too, can have a civil union with a man. Go for it.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: No One Is Above the Law?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Oct 17 - 05:08 AM

Further to my post of 03 Oct 17 - 08:40 AM I think it needs a little amplification. Islamic law varies in it's interpretation of "LGBT issues" in different Islamic countries. Also the sanctions have become more severe in recent times. Rightly, wrongly, Despite a universal declaration of human rights enshrined in some of the earliest activities of the UN, that is the reality.

(But the UN is an organisation that elected Saudi onto both the Human Rights Council and the UN Women's Panel- so there you go! )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam