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BS: A Beer Question

michaelr 29 Nov 17 - 08:38 PM
Donuel 29 Nov 17 - 08:45 PM
Rapparee 29 Nov 17 - 09:06 PM
michaelr 29 Nov 17 - 10:44 PM
BobL 30 Nov 17 - 03:57 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Nov 17 - 06:51 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Nov 17 - 07:56 AM
FreddyHeadey 30 Nov 17 - 08:56 AM
punkfolkrocker 30 Nov 17 - 09:03 AM
michaelr 30 Nov 17 - 07:24 PM
Jos 01 Dec 17 - 04:56 AM
Mr Red 01 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Dec 17 - 07:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Dec 17 - 08:10 AM
DMcG 01 Dec 17 - 08:12 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Dec 17 - 08:28 AM
Rob Naylor 01 Dec 17 - 09:23 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Dec 17 - 01:07 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Dec 17 - 01:50 PM
Rob Naylor 01 Dec 17 - 05:44 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Dec 17 - 05:53 PM
Raedwulf 02 Dec 17 - 03:38 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 17 - 08:56 AM
Raedwulf 02 Dec 17 - 10:43 AM
michaelr 02 Dec 17 - 03:15 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 17 - 03:42 PM
Raedwulf 02 Dec 17 - 04:49 PM
Raedwulf 02 Dec 17 - 04:55 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 17 - 06:06 PM
ripov 02 Dec 17 - 07:06 PM
Joe_F 02 Dec 17 - 07:07 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 17 - 07:18 PM
punkfolkrocker 02 Dec 17 - 07:58 PM
Allan Conn 03 Dec 17 - 04:23 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM
Raedwulf 03 Dec 17 - 10:24 AM
MudGuard 03 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM
ripov 03 Dec 17 - 07:35 PM
Joe_F 03 Dec 17 - 10:04 PM
BobL 04 Dec 17 - 03:15 AM
Doug Chadwick 04 Dec 17 - 04:12 AM
DaveRo 04 Dec 17 - 04:29 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 17 - 06:25 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Dec 17 - 06:37 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 17 - 06:54 AM
Donuel 04 Dec 17 - 09:34 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 17 - 10:36 AM
Raedwulf 05 Dec 17 - 12:18 PM
ripov 05 Dec 17 - 07:20 PM
Mr Red 06 Dec 17 - 03:18 AM
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Subject: BS: A Beer Question
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:38 PM

In the summer, I refrigerate my beer (Carlsberg Elephant, if you're curious). In the winter I keep it at room temperature, which in my kitchen is around 60F.

When I open a cold bottle, it behaves as expected. But when I pop the cap on a room temperature bottle, the contents foam up violently, and unless I'm careful to have a glass at hand, a third of the bottle can go to waste all over the kitchen counter. Can anyone explain this, or why it takes six minutes to boil a three-minute egg?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 08:45 PM

I would love a Danish bottle of Giraffe ale.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 09:06 PM

Where do you live? I can do the same here at 4,800 feet above sea level if I'm not careful.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Nov 17 - 10:44 PM

I live 30 miles from the California coast, at about 150 feet above sea level.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: BobL
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 03:57 AM

Something to do with the solubility of gas in liquid at different temperatures. Essentially, cold liquid can hold more gas in solution at a given pressure than warm liquid. So when you open a cold bottle the gas stays in solution, with a warm bottle the gas bubbles out as soon as the pressure is released.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 06:51 AM

You can buy a gizmo for a couple of quid/bucks that sits in your pan with the eggs and changes colour, starting from the outside, to tell you how well done the eggs are. It works a treat. You have to start with cold water in the pan and you don't plunge the gizmo in cold water at the end as you might do with your eggs - just fish it out to cool down by itself. It's just a lump of hard plastic shaped like half an egg.

Why do you want beer at different temperatures at different times? Every beer has one ideal drinking temperature. I don't drink white wine at room temp just because it's cold outside!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 07:56 AM

I've just woke up a bit confused... are we poaching eggs in wine and beer now.....?????


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 08:56 AM

Your three minute eggs....?
Was that from cold in a largish amount of water, then timing from when the water boiled?
Have you changed your pan\water quantity\heat source\egg size?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 09:03 AM

My wife likes me to put a 2 litre bottle of coke in the freezer to turn it into 'slushies'..

Timing is haphazard, ie, remembering to check between ad breaks in TV shows..[bad news if we both fall asleep on the sofa]
and the results are not without Russian roulette element of risk
of a highly pressurised foaming fountain
or a solid bottle of ice....


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Nov 17 - 07:24 PM

BobL - thank you for being the only respondent actually to address my question. Your answer makes sense to me.

Steve Shaw - in warm weather, cold beer is refreshing to me, while in cold weather it makes me feel cold. So I drink it at what the British (I think) call "cellar temperature". This actually allows me to taste it more; and though Elephant is technically a Pilsener-style lager, it really has a lot of flavor (and alcohol, 7%), more than, say, standard Carlsberg. Don't the English drink their ales at less than freezing temps?

Freddy Headey - when I was young, I'd bring a small pot of water to the boil, add the egg, and after three minutes had a perfect soft-boiled egg. Over the years, I noticed that I had to cook it longer to achieve the same result - firm white and liquid yolk. The same technique now takes six minutes to achieve this, and I'm mystified. I've always lived close to coasts, so altitude is not a factor.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Jos
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 04:56 AM

Two possibilities, michaelr:

Do you keep your eggs in the fridge now, and did you just keep them in the kitchen or larder when you were young?

Are you now able to afford bigger eggs?


As for the beer, the colder it is, the less you can taste it. With some beer this can be an improvement. I prefer my beer to be cool, rather than cold.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 07:49 AM

different taste buds work better at differing temperatures.

Sweet turns off as the drink/food gets colder. Try melted icecream and it will demonstrate this.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 07:54 AM

For several years I was on the flavour panel for Doom Bar at Sharp's brewery in Cornwall. The beer was always served to us at 12C at the insistence of the amazing head brewer Stuart Howe.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:10 AM

I'm with Steve on this. All beers have their optimal temperature. It seems obvious that the warmer one does not suit Carlsberg Elephant. Rather than trying to make a beer into something it isn't, why not try one that does suit 'cellar' temperature? Ones that spring to mind that may suit you are any of the 'blondes' that are readily available.
I can only speak about my local (Yorkshire, UK) ones but I am sure that there are plenty of craft beers in the US that would fit the bill.

Cheers!

Dave the beer drinking Gnome


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:12 AM

I was on a wine course a year or two back and they reminded us that guidance like having the wine at room temperature arose before effective central heating existed so "room temperature" as-was is appreciably cooler than what we might think today.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 08:28 AM

That's right. I leave the bottle of red in the kitchen at this time of year to keep it cool. In southern Spain in the summer we keep reds in the fridge, taking the bottle out half an hour before drinking. White wine straight from the fridge can be a bit too cold, but pouring it out is usually enough to get it about right. The second swig is always the best!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 09:23 AM

There's a Flavour Panel for Doom Bar???

Can't think that they can have much to do :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 01:07 PM

We were trained to assess at least a dozen attributes of each gyle (batch if you like). We usually assessed eight gyles at a sitting over a couple of hours and reached an overall assessment for each one. There was a bit more to it than swigging it with your mates, served too warm down the Wig And Pizzle to wash down your prawn cocktail crisps of a Friday night, Rob.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 01:50 PM

As a cider and white wine drinker..
I packed in beers and lager 100% completely about 15 years ago due to unconfirmed but most probable suspicions
that I was sadly allergic [constant skin rashes and an increasing trouser size..]...

I'd like to say that my favourite west country beers were RCH Brewery..

Now sadly RIP since earlier 2017...


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:44 PM

Well Steve, I'd happily do that sort of thing on a Dark Star Hop Head panel or Long Man APA, or even St Austell Proper Job.... But Doom Bar? The bitter for people who don't like bitter? Tried it several times before cling to the inescapable conclusion that it doesn't actually *have* any flavour :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 17 - 05:53 PM

Proper Job is full of diacetyl, pal! You clearly need a little training. Pass the pork scratchings...


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Raedwulf
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:38 AM

I've just woke up a bit confused... are we poaching eggs in wine and beer now.....????? Laughed out loud, pfr, I really did.

To attempt to address the original premise i.e. strictly about bee... No, let's be a bit more precise, fermented malted barley (mostly) with hops added for flavouring & preservative properties. Beer & lager are fundamentally different drinks. For one, the yeast ferment at the top, the other ferments at the bottom. Yes, that matters (I'm not entirely sure why).

More to the point, lager is brewed to be drunk chilled, around 4C, whilst the jokes about warm British beer are true up to a point - beer is brewed to be drunk at 'room' temperature, which actually means cellar temperature - 10-14C. The usual disparaging remark I make around this time is something like, beer is brewed so you can taste it, whilst lager is brewed so you can't! Which is completely unfair on lager. It should be properly chilled; if it tastes horrible warm, it's because it's not supposed be drunk then!

The problem with your question is you are American. Carlsberg are a Danish company. They make a big deal of that in UK adverts. Not that our Carlsberg is Danish, any more than your's is. Brand beers are brewed under license locally across the globe. Budweiser was a Czech lager originally. Etc. What you get is not the necessarily the same drink (not even if it's labelled "Export"). I cannot give you a scientific reason why, but beer & lager are different drinks with different cellaring requirements. What the US, where you are, describes as 'beer', in most cases as far as I can tell, is actually lager (& possibly inferior lager, as much as UK lager mostly is). But, given the difference between beer & lager, they will likely behave differently at the same temperature. And any drink will itself behave differently at different temperatures.

And finally a direct answer to your question! I rarely drink lager (only if I know it's German / Czech brewed), as I prefer dark beers; porters, stouts, browns, etc. And, obviously, I wouldn't drink it warm. However... I occasionally have the same problem of foaming with an out-of-date beer, or with a beer such as Leffe, which is corked & wired, rather than capped (and in larger, thicker bottles too). It's pressure, I think. Water is incompressible, but gas most certainly isn't! The Leffe is obviously bottled under higher pressure, or they wouldn't do it the way that they do (same as sparkling wine compared with still). An out-of-date beer may have undergone unplanned secondary fermentation, which increases the gas pressure within the bottle. One of the reasons I'm not fond of lager is I find it rather fizzy i.e. gassy, implying it is also bottled under greater pressure than a beer. If the contents of the bottle are 10-20-30 degrees (whatever the scale) higher than intended... The gas wants to occupy more volume, but can't, so the pressure increases. The moment the pressure is released by opening, it therefore expands more rapidly than the makers intended & hey Presto! Foaming!! I reckon that's almost certainly the correct explanation, Michael.

If you want to prove it by experiment, stick a bottle in the oven & see how high you have to go before the bottle shatters or, possibly more likely, the cap shoots off! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 08:56 AM

Lager is beer. Beer is either ale or lager. Ales are made using top-fermenting yeasts and don't take long to make. Lagers are made with bottom-fementing yeasts and (traditionally at least) are stored after the main fermentation at cold temperatures for a period of time.

Let's get one thing clear. The vast majority of bottled ales and lagers are pasteurised and there is no yeast in the bottle. Their flavour is drastically altered by the process. Try comparing bottled London Pride or Doom Bar with the cask-conditioned versions. Completely different drinks, yet they were brewed the same way. I'm used to drinking cask-conditioned ale in pubs and I can't be doing with bottled ales unless they are bottle-conditioned, i.e., not pasteurised or artificially carbonated. Bottle-conditioned ale has yeast in the bottle. I don't go for draught lager so I'm fine with bottled as long as it's good stuff, but only on hot summer days. I like CruzCampo when I'm in Spain and Peroni in Italy (or here). There's a very nice Spanish one called Alhambra. We had some lovely ones in Prague but I can't remember their names (I think one was called Bernard!). Most supermarkets sell a Belgian wheat beer called Duvel for about two quid the 330 ml bottle. It's bottle-conditioned at way over 8% and is just about the best beer you'll ever taste. Pour slowly and drink the dregs from the bottle. Trust me. Treat yerself, but go easy!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Raedwulf
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 10:43 AM

Duvel's not bad, I agree, but then I'm spoilt for choice - about 15 miles up the road, I have Britain's biggest beer shop - Beers of Europe in Setchey, Norfolk. The first time you walk in, you look left, shade your eyes with your hand, and go "F*** me! Where's the end of the aisle?!" Well, I did, anyway. The shop itself is about 1/3 of one of those pre-fab type warehouses. The entire first aisle (both sides) is UK beers (plus ciders), with a special section for local breweries. Half of one aisle is devoted to world beers, the opposite side, plus another 1/8 or so, is Belgian, and about 1/2 an aisle, wrapped around the far end & down the outside is German.

Then there's the two racks (one aisle is about 8 racks, I think) of whiskies (mostly single malt), and the several racks of assorted spirits & liqueurs from around the world. Plus a rack or so of homebrew stuff. Did I forget to mention the overspill area just beyond the far end, filled with meads, country wines, cordials, and syrups? Oh, and the staff are very friendly. Basically, if you're ever in the vicinity & you like your beer... They have a website too.

Since I think I've answered michael's opening question satisfactorily, shall we now just make this a thread "all things beer" (whatever type)? Tesco used to sell a very nice Bohemian black lager, Herold. Having a good proportion of dark malt in it, it had some of that warm, dark, rounded flavour that I enjoy. Can't find it now, alas. I'm not a bitter man (I've tried a few Hook Norton's - all too bitter for my palate; each to their own!). I still say, although again I haven't seen it for a long time in Tesco, one of the nicest beers I've had is Trent Mild - out of a can, & 2.7%! But you drink beer for the flavour - if all you want is alcohol, there are spirits...

Having said that, I confess that most of my favourites are 5.5%+. "Standards" recently (all available in my local T's) are Abbot Reserve (6.5%), Shepherd Neame 1698 (6.5%), and their Bishops's Finger (5.4%), which is just on the bitter edge of my range (their Spitfire is nice too, but just the other side of the line, if you see what I mean).

My two favourite ever beers, though... Good King Henry from a Norfolk brewery, Old Chimneys (who can be found here ), a 9.6% Imperial Stout. First came across it at Norfolk Beer Festival - gorgeous, deep, chocolatey. The other is another strong one (you may have the idea by now...) that went defunct, but is now back in production, apparently. Thomas Hardy Ale, originally brewed in 1967/8 to commemorate the eponymous author's death, by Eldridge Pope (the new incarnation is here). My memory says it was around the 12% mark; the new version is similar, give or take, and is described as a barley wine. Just to show you how nice the Setchey people are (which is where I discovered it), I queried its disappearance with the older chap in the shop (I'm guessing if I say it's family owned & he's the head of the family, but you get the idea). He explained that the American owner had... I forget whether it was stopped brewing or stopped exporting (given the history on the new site, I guess he meant the importer had either run out of stock, or wasn't selling it in the UK any more). But then, as a regular customer, he both kindly & generously opened a vintage bottle (can't remember how old was) so that I might try a sample. The taste? Indescribable! I can't comment on the new version, but the old one, along with GKH, are the only 2 beers I'd give 10/10.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:15 PM

Thank you, Raedwulf. I suppose that by "beer" you mean ale, since you're contrasting it to lager.

To address one of your points, Carlsberg Elephant was brewed under license by Molson in Canada for some years, but what I buy here now is imported from Denmark. So it's quite possible that some batches are past their sell-by date. But it tastes better to me unchilled - maybe I'm just weird.

Good discussion!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 03:42 PM

"Duvel's not bad"

Not bad?

NOT BAD???

Bwahahahahahaha! Rot ma flayo!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Raedwulf
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 04:49 PM

I prefer dark beers remember, Steve. And there's Setchey & all their stock. I buy Duvel sometimes. But I buy Leffe Brune more often. Duvel's not bad, but each to their own, eh? Try not to pull anything when you try to get up off the floor you've been rolling on, old son. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Raedwulf
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 04:55 PM

Oh, and Michael, not precisely. Ale is an even more vague term than beer to be honest. Steve detailed the top / bottom fermenting thing above. Lager is bottom fermenting. Beer /ale is... Well, there's no precise definition, except they'll both be top fermenting. Beyond that, in the UK at least, the waters (sic) are further muddied by the notion of Real Ale and... let's just not go there, eh! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 06:06 PM

Real ale isn't hard, Raedwulf. The brew is not pasteurised and the gas comes from the yeast alone. What's so hard or muddy about that?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: ripov
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:06 PM

I'm sure it's lager that is top-fermented.
Anyway, My Mum (yes i've mentioned her before) had a spell of winemaking and I remembered the instruction book she had said Beer was Ale with hops in it. A quick check in wikipaedia confirms that that was the case at one time. Not saying that Ale didn't have a bitter flavouring, but other herbs, like Rue or Tansy were used.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Joe_F
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:07 PM

If you look in the OED (I'm not bothering to at this point, so feel free to contradict me), you'll find that "ale" is the Danish word for beer, brought over to England by the Danish invaders, and ever since that happened we have been inventing distinctions. At one point it had to do with whether it had hops in it. In the 1950s, IIRC, California law decreed that you had to call it ale if you ran the alcohol content above a certain percentage. There was a wonderful, expensive import called Ballarat ale that was considered appropriate for celebrations.

Merry Christmas, anyway. %^)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:18 PM

Most dark beers taste burnt. The worst offender is draught Guinness, which relies on burnt malt for its bitterness rather than hops. Guinness is not a highly-hopped beer. Basically that means it isn't especially good for you. Frankly, it's a bloody poor do.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Dec 17 - 07:58 PM

I drank copious beer from the age of 14 to early 40s...
If I had beers that didn't taste 'quite right' it wasn't so easy to distinguish if it was an odd herby flavour variation, or just a bad conditioned pint...???
..and by the 8th round it didn't matter anyway..

Usually the beer could taste great going in, but then shortly after swallowing leave a hint of unpleasant after taste...
Perhaps something like burning tyre rubber...???

These days, when the wife is trying a new real ale in our local camra pub,
I'll sniff the top of her fresh half pint for old times sake.
and can still often detect after tones of something just a bit 'off'....


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Allan Conn
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 04:23 AM

Riproy you've got it the wrong way round. Beer was generally made using top fermenting yeast. About 200 years ago what we now know as lager was invented which uses a bottom fermenting yeast and the beer is stored (lager is a German verb meaning to store) for a longer period.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 06:50 AM

Lager IS beer. The distinction is between ale and lager.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Raedwulf
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 10:24 AM

I'll have to correct you, Joe. The Englisc (i.e. Anglo-Saxons; sc being pronounced 'sh' back then; or rather 'sh' being written down as sc!) wrote it down either as alu or ealu. Excluding Finnish, pretty much all of the Northern languages belong to the Germanic family. Just take king - Koenig (Ger.) - konge (Nor.) - kung (Swe.). In A/S it's cyning (the y is a long 'u'); cunning is also related, and the cun root is also present in a very well known short word (it's all bound up with the notion of wisdom)!

The use of ale & beer have been very muddled down the years; precision in their use is a relatively recent phenomenon, and not everyone agrees, even if they make a distinction, hence my comment about Real Ale. I'd guess your definition originates with CAMRA, Steve. I don't argue with it at all, but that's not to say it was instantly accepted or widely recognised originally.

According to wiki, bottom-fermenting yeast seems to have emerged as a hybridization in the early fifteenth century, So I'm afraid I have to correct you there as well, Allan, though you're perfectly correct about the meaning of lager, which has been in use for a long time. In actual fact, wiki also reckons that The rise of lager was entwined with the development of refrigeration, as refrigeration made it possible to brew lager year-round (brewing in the summer had previously been banned in many locations across Germany), which means it only really took off in the late 19thC.

As to hops, very many plants have been used for bittering & flavouring. Only one has preservative properties - hops. Their use in brewing was introduced to the UK from Flanders in the 14th-15thC, IIRC. They were known well before but since, according to the medieval philosophy of "Humours", they were believed to promote Melancholy (I kid you not! ;-) ), they were rarely used in brewing. Cultivated, you'd be most likely to find them in the herbal, medicinal gardens of monasteries. In my garden, I have a plant, Tanacetum balsamita a member of the tansy / daisy family, that goes by one of two common names; either Costmary or... Alecost - precisely because it used to be used for bittering in brewing ale (tansy is notoriously bitter & used to be used make food around Easter time, the bitterness reflecting sorrow at the death of JC). A friend of mine (& she is very knowledgeable) has a theory that the wider use of hops in brewing had a significant effect on the ability to make longer sea journeys because of its preservative properties. How correct she is, I've no idea, but it has at least a veneer of plausibility!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: MudGuard
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 10:27 AM

Beer question?

Beer is not a question of death or live! It is much more important ;-)


Andy a/k/a MudGuard - red wine drinker ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: ripov
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 07:35 PM

Nice post, Raedwulf.
I often speculate on the origin of words, frequently barking up the wrong tree! - but I had wondered if there was a connection between the C word and a female tribal leader.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Dec 17 - 10:04 PM

Raedwulf: Well, now I have looked it up. It does indeed turn out that both words go back far into Old English and the Danes are not responsible for either. The other part of what I said -- that they were originally synonymous but people have come up with a variety of distinctions over the centuries, is amusingly true:
1. Beer had hops; ale didn't.
2. Men call it ale; gods call it beer.
3. Ale means the paler kinds, for which the malt is not roasted.
4. Various localities have made their own distinction. (I suppose that takes care of California.)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: BobL
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 03:15 AM

Beer question?

Beer is the answer! And who cares what the question was?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 04:12 AM

3. Ale means the paler kinds, for which the malt is not roasted.

Where does Newcastle Brown Ale fit in ?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: DaveRo
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 04:29 AM

The Tale of Ale double LP includes readings from Andrew Boorde, writing in the 16th century. I can't find his booke online, but he's quoted here.

One of the songs includes a list of all the muck that an alewife added to her brew.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:25 AM

The malt IS roasted. It's the degree to which the malt is roasted that determines the colour of the beer.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:37 AM

Not if you use gravy browning.

Not that I ever did such a thing in my younger home brewing days.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 06:54 AM

I used to brew those big tins of Tom Paxton in a plastic bin under the stairs and scoop a tankardful out when I fancied a pint. I did manage to bottle some of it occasionally. The haze was legendary. Any more than three gave you a king-sized headache. Summat to do with lack of temperature control, higher alcohols and fusel oil if I remember correctly... And just maybe that extra pound of sugar...

Our school librarian used to make a massive brew in his bath. His breakfast was two pints scooped straight from the tub. He always did look a bit delicate at work.

Jayz, we knew how to live!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 09:34 AM

Other than being safer than microbial water why drink nothing but beer?
Does it really improve life that much? Its not 1650 anymore.
This is coming from a guy who has maybe 4 beers a year.
What am I missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 17 - 10:36 AM

1996 pints. That's what you're missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Raedwulf
Date: 05 Dec 17 - 12:18 PM

Rip - That would depend on the tribe of said leader. The first name that sprang to mind that would cause confusion was that of a Celtic king, Cunobelinus (who turns up, somewhat altered, as the eponymous characters in Shakespeare's play Cymbeline). In his case, the root is cuno-, rather than cun-, which is "hound" in Celtic, a totally different branch of Indo-European language (family tree here, but don't look at it after too many beers, he says, keeping tenuously on-topic! ;-) ).


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: ripov
Date: 05 Dec 17 - 07:20 PM

Thanks....I think even one might be too many! Might wait for light of day and fire up the A3 printer!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Beer Question
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Dec 17 - 03:18 AM

I am sure that there are plenty of craft beers in the US that would fit the bill.

There is a movement/club/association where they compete to try the bitterest brews, and the brewers compete to provide them.


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