Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?

Subject: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:49 PM

It just feels off when my audiobook tells me someone's going "down" to Yorkshire from London... when I think I have it right that they're going north and uphill.

What am I missing? (Is it a class prejudice thing where London akways has to be referred to as more up-er than Yorkshire? Being in the parallel part of PA gave me that idea.)

Hearing it a lot as I listen thru JS Fletcher titles at www.librivox.org's catalog.

Thanks for any help!


~S~

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Nick
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 06:00 PM

You go 'up' to capitals.

That simple for right or wrong.


As an aside no one knows which way up the world is so up and down are quite odd concepts

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Nick
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 06:17 PM

Personally I always down to London and up to York (close to where I live)

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: GUEST,Rigby
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 06:37 PM

It always seems wrong to me too, but it seems to be generally accepted. In railway-speak, the 'up' line on a double-track railway is always the line towards London and the 'down' line is the one going away.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 06:42 PM

As a kid I was taken "up" to London, but parents were londoners. I would think that the local big city will always take "up" in common parlance. If you still use proper maps you probably think "up North", "down South". But where does that leave a journey say from Brummagem to Aberystwyth?
Now I work on the railway, London is "up", everywhere else is "down". And stations and everything else have "London" and "country" ends.
Except that sometimes there's a track joining two others (like the horizontal stroke on a letter "A") And then no bugger knows which way is up!

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 07:23 PM

I always go oop north when I drive to Manchester. The expression "down in Devon" is very common, though I never hear "down in Cornwall," oddly. Going to London is either "up to t'smoke" or "down to t'smoke" as the fancy takes you. "Up to London" is quite common.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 07:31 PM

Or if you like to be confused:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_directions

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 08:15 PM

London is definitely down. The North is always up.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:58 AM

I've always said "Up North" and "Up to London" "Down to Devon" and round here we say "Up Norridge" or "Up the city". One might even say "I'm going up to Ruth's" (or "round Ruth's")
I think it is 'up' for cities and 'down' for rural locations.
Interesting linguistic quirk!

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 04:38 AM

Of course it all changes for London residents when studying at University elsewhere.
A person is always 'Up' at university, and going home for vacation, or at the end of studies, is 'going down'.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: G-Force
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 04:46 AM

As a southerner who went to Uni in Sheffield, I always found it odd to hear the locals referring to London as 'down there', as if it was something in the gusset of their pants.

Folk songs always seem to say 'up to London' not 'down to London', even if going south.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 05:30 AM

Down south. Back east. Out west. Up north.

In our weather forecasts (especially heard in the shipping forecast), the wind is backing when it changes away from westerly, through southerly, towards easterly. Anti-clockwise in other words. It often means the approach of an Atlantic depression.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 04:21 AM

This is what the body of your post will look like: Railways decided the up line was to Lundun innit?
The down line, 'tother way.
It distinguished which of the two side by side was which.

Has a lot to do with the fact that so many lines point towards Lundun.
Not sure how they classified lines converging on other cities from other cities. Say on the Isle of Wight, or of Man.

Back east. Out west.
not so sure that is graphic, arguably chronological for the US (if you discount the First Nation). Or even that it says where you regard home on your Island (other continents are available). But you are obviously looking counter to the Earth's rotation. However I wouldn't personally get aerated over it like I would the metrocentric misnomers.



Subject:         Help
From:         Mr Red
Railways decided the up line was to Lundun innit?
The down line, 'tother way.
It distinguished which of the two side by side was which.

Has a lot to do with the fact that so many lines point towards Lundun.
Not sure how they classified lines converging on other cities from other cities. Say on the Isle of Wight, or of Man.

Back east. Out west.
not so sure that is graphic, arguably chronological for the US (if you discount the First Nation). Or even that it says where you regard home on your Island (other continents are available). But you are obviously looking counter to the Earth's rotation.
However I wouldn't personally get aerated over it like I would the metrocentric misnomers.
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Jos
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 04:36 AM

I do find the descriptions of winds confusing. For example, the north wind comes from the north, which means it will be cold (as in 'The North Wind doth blow, and we shall have snow'), but if I were to set off in a northerly direction I would be heading towards the north.
Incidentally, unlike Steve Shaw, I wouldn't think of being in Devon as 'down in Devon', but I would think of being in Cornwall as 'down in Cornwall'.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:25 AM

Jos wrote: For example, the north wind comes from the north...

... whereas the arrows on many weather forecast sites and apps will point south.

OTOH on weather charts 'wind arrows' will point north.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:39 AM

We don't say "down in Cornwall" because that places Cornwall in a particular position relative to the UK, whereas everybody yer in Kernow knows that we are a separate nation. You don't say "down in Brazil," do you?

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:00 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: You don't say "down in Brazil," do you?

Rolling down to Rio?

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:26 AM

Touche!

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:53 AM

In Dublin, there are lots of "Upper" and "Lower" ends of streets. The Lower part is always nearer the Liffey.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: JHW
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 06:14 AM

Up to the rigs, down to the jigs, up to the rigs of London Town

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 06:25 AM

"Bottle" of hay?

~S~

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 10:54 AM

The Lower part is always nearer the Liffey.

Irish logic? But then water flows downhill, and drains into the river. And the river cut the slopes of that valley.

Subject: RE: Cultural: *Down* to Yorks from London?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 10:15 AM

I thought they'd got it all wrong too in " Three score and ten" when they sing about "from Yarmouth down to Scarborough": on my map it's up! But the explanation I was given was that the boats were going back to their home port of Scarborough, hence it was "down home". (Although they were "lost from Grimsby Town" - confusing, or what?)

And I once said in my local session near Edinburgh, "I'm going to sing a song from the North-East" - to which, the remark was "Which North-East?" - it was in fact from NE Scotland, but eith my English accent they couldn't be sure!