BS: Venezuela & Socialism

Subject: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 07:14 AM

I have started this thread so this subject can be discussed under it's own merits and not under a thread devoted to another subject.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 03:30 AM

Perhaps a permanent thread on football, weeds and cheap booze should be created.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 04:48 AM

Steve has chosen not to support you by saying that he accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing.
If all your links and jinks have failed to convince even him, then you have not convinced anybody.
Your views are so extreme that they are beyond the fringe of normal, reasoned discourse.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 04:53 AM

Sorry, I meant to say that V. has gone from the most prosperous S. American state to being a basket case where children have not enough to eat.
Of course when a socialist state fails it is the fault of the West, as are all the problems of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 05:18 AM

Is it not strange that many countries with massive oil reserves became failed states. I wonder if they made this transition to chaos all on their own. Is this why Iran is in the gunsights?

Venezuela has had many outsiders dictating the outcome of internal events. potted history

Iran had a similar history until the Ayatollah said enough.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/

The suez fiasco was also driven by the greed for oil.

There are two ways of looking at this. The former freehand the west had is lost because of the need for the same resource by China demands all dealings are semi transparent.

The alternative view is that resource demand will trigger war.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 06:52 AM

"Is it not strange that many countries with massive oil reserves became failed states."
Simplistic rubbish
Living standards rose steadily under the new system and have fluctuated over the last few years due largely to oil prices and EXTERNAL INTERFERENCE
CIA

CARACAS — Venezuela is one of the largest nations in Latin America and plays a prominent role in both the political and economic landscape of the South American continent. It is a nation with a vast amount of national resources and beauty. Venezuela holds the largest proven oil reserves in the world, surpassing Saudi Arabia in 2013. Yet, in spite of this immense stock of one of the most valuable resources of the modern world, the poverty rate in Venezuela has been historically high.

In the past couple of decades, the poverty rate in Venezuela has been quite volatile. Due to radically changing political and economic circumstances, the poverty rate has fallen and risen drastically several times. The election of President Hugo Chavez in the late 1990s brought a slew of strong populist policies. During the early and mid-2000s, the poverty rate in Venezuela decreased at a rapid rate, partially due to the increase in global oil prices. Between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of the population below the national poverty line decreased from 41.6 percent to 26.8 percent. Its GDP also grew dramatically, from approximately $84 billion in 2003 to $393 billion in 2010. Just from 2003 to 2004 the real growth rate of Venezuela’s GDP was almost 17 percent.

From 2010 to the present, Venezuela has experienced the reverse process, largely due to severe political turmoil and economic crisis and exacerbated by a fall in global oil prices. The World Bank reported an increase from 27 percent of people under the national poverty line in 2010 to 33 percent in 2016. In the same year, between 2015 and 2016, the GDP shrunk by 10 percent. There is some lack of information and transparency from the current Venezuelan government, which makes it hard to fully record accurate data. According to one of the most recent studies, 82 percent of Venezuelan households currently live in poverty.

There has also been a developing food crisis in the past years, due to severely worsening economic circumstances. In April of 2017, 11.4 percent of children in vulnerable areas were experiencing acute malnutrition, a drastic rise from 8.9 percent in October of the previous year. Humanitarian agencies generally declare 10 percent as a food crisis. Currently, 85 percent of families in susceptible areas report eating less and 44 percent of those same households report someone in the family going one whole day without eating at all.

Although the poverty rate in Venezuela is increasing rapidly and the food crisis is worsening, humanitarian aid is scarce. The current government denies that there is a humanitarian crisis and thus constantly refuses aid from agencies and organizations that offer help. Unless some type of change or action is enacted, it seems as if the situation will continue to worsen and more people will continue to suffer.

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 06:58 AM

Well, that not-so-potted history appears to be that of a different country to the one in the thread title. That, on top of the fact that Keith has apparently gone barking mad in two extremely puzzling posts, means that the thread has got off to a somewhat pear-shaped start. Good luck with the rescue act, Raggytash!

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 07:04 AM

"Unless some type of change or action is enacted, it seems as if the situation will continue to worsen and more people will continue to suffer."

and I suppose the imposition of sanctions by the EU and US mitigates the problems? Dream on!

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 06:53 PM

Hugo Chavez was a piece of bad news. AFAIK he was elected legally by the standards of Venezuela by a tactic of extreme class warfare. He went from democracy to tyranny by stages and he was a nutjob to boot. I would not blame the 'ism' of Socialism for this because the overall drivers were greed and incompetence.

Another case of the "I, Claudius" dictum that mankind should not lose its sense of smell.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 07:00 PM

You were clearly brainwashed.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jan 18 - 04:22 PM

Jim Carroll:

There have been some confused posts in this thread, the latest rather longish one that tried to actually say something was yours in which you post a couple of links to clearly partisan sources, your own version I suppose of "simplistic rubbish", then your post becomes an extended, unattributed COPY and PASTE from borgenmagazine.com which seems to be a pretty reasonable source, (maybe why you are not giving it honest attribution?) The text indicates in non-tendentious prose, that Venezuela is in a self-inflicted world of hurt (those are my words).
It was pretty easy to doubt that the body of text was from you because you tend to do line-by-line repetitive rants in a flurry of chain posts. It is easy to find the source of a large cut-and-paste by ..., well, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jan 18 - 01:57 PM

""simplistic rubbish", "
That's what I believed that statement was - not the article linked
Pinning down what is happening in these countries to one single case when in many cases there are many - not least external interference by the US bing a major one, is simplistic as far as I am concerned
The US has been interfering in polities it believes to be threatening tro its own interests in order to counteract 'The Domino Effect' has been a fact as long as I can remember
I didn't link the quotes because I didn't believe them to be particularly contentions and I was busy at the time (I usually do)
I'm not in the habit of hiding my quotes because I realise it takes very little effort to trace them - pointless
Not sure whaT YOU'RE GETTING AT ANYWAY
Don't be shy, ezplain yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Feb 18 - 11:21 PM

What, and be the first?

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Feb 18 - 04:16 AM

Thought not
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Venezuela & Socialism
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 18 - 04:34 AM

Hugo Chavez was a Kirshner shagger, sounds familiar in the current labour party leadership!!!