BS: The Immigration Authorities

Subject: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Mar 18 - 11:39 PM

I've been retired from my job as a government investigator since 1999. Since then, I've been mostly a music bum, but I also work as an "activist." My main interests are homelessness, the incarcerated, and immigration. There are lots of Hispanic immigrants in my community in California (which used to be part of Mexico). I know and love many of them, and it scares me to death that so many of them may face deportation if something doesn't change here in the U.S.

But today I got thrown for a loop. I play Scrabble every Friday with an 86-year-old, Irish-born nun. She came to the United States in 1949, and was naturalized in the mid-1950s. But she can't find her naturalization certificate, and she's afraid she might get in trouble if she's stopped by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement).

I doubt that she'll have any trouble because the color of her skin is "right," even if her accent isn't. But she brings up a good question.

Must a person provide proof of citizenship if stopped by an officer? What kind of proof is sufficient? How can my friend get proof?

For that matter, I know many Irish-born nuns who have been arrested in various demonstrations. Can they be deported, even though they are naturalized citizens?

These are frightening days. I hope they get better soon.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 03:06 AM

I know nothing about how the Law pertains in USA Joe. But here, one isn't usually asked for proof of Citizenship on demand. As long as one has ID, the authorities can check one is naturalised by referring to their records and electronically checking fingerprints etc.
.
However, in UK a person can have their Citizenship rescinded and be deported back to their country of birth in certain circumstances. For example, if it would be for the Public Good, if they were engaging in very serious crime, terrorism etc.
My husband has dual nationality (Ivorian and British) Unless he murders me or some such crime, he'll never be forced to leave.

It's come to a terrible pass if a dear old Irish nun who has been in USA since 1949 were to fear deportation! Is there any way she can be reassured by making discreet enquiries on her behalf?

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 03:27 AM

If hear murders you, dear Sen, he'd better leave quick - there'll be a posse of 'Catters out hunting him! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 03:30 AM

If HE murders you! Bloody iPad predictive text! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 03:46 AM

That's very sweet of you to say so Backwoodsman.

Funnily enough, I took out some life insurance yesterday, and it will run concurrently with another policy, until the first one expires in a few weeks. So if I were to snuff it now, the payout would be double, quite a large sum.
My husband says he's already prepared the arsenic, the sack and the spade, and is only waiting for the opportunity!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: BobL
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 03:51 AM

How, indeed, does anyone, whether native-born or immigrant, provide proof of their citizenship? In my own case, birth certificate & passport are stored safely away: if they got lost then I'd have to apply to the (UK) General Records Office and Passport Office respectively for copies. Presumably your friend's citizenship status is also on an official record somewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 05:22 AM

In the future, the saving factor will be biometric passports and other documents. My husband's Ivorian passport is biometric, and he can be identified in Cote d'Ivoire by his fingerprints and facial/eye measurements.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 06:23 AM

If I had to provide citizenship I would quote my NH number. For reasons of spells of unemployment I seem to have it burnt on the brain. Though it was memorised from before that episode.

Having a somewhat unique name might help. Even today!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 06:42 AM

I'm thinking of becoming Irish in order to stay in the EU. I'm entitled, apparently!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Jos
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 06:47 AM

I learnt my NHS number about 50 years ago, thinking it was mine for life, but this turned out not to be the case. When a different doctor's surgery asked me for my NHS number, I quoted that number and was told it was wrong, and I was given a completely different number. More recently, when I had a hospital appointment I discovered I had yet another number. I haven't bothered to learn that one.
I do know my National Insurance number, which hasn't changed since I acquired it in my teens.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 07:18 AM

I had an identical experience with what I thought was my NHS number. You'd have thought that a combination of any four letters followed by any three digits would be sufficient to cover the whole human race, wouldn't you. Oh well. I got a tracking number that was in the tens of billions yesterday for a parcel I was expecting. Parcelforce or whoever it was must be doing very well.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 11:59 PM

As far as I can tell, native and naturalized U.S. Citizens are not required to provide proof of citizenship on demand; but they can be required to prove citizenship when applying for a job or for government benefits. But ICE can't just raid the convent and carry away all the Irish nuns who can't provice proof of citizenship.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) used to be the Immigration and Naturalization Service of the Department of Justice. They provide this page of information on how to apply for proof of citizenship:https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/proof-us-citizenship-and-identification-when-applying-job

To get a replacement Certificate of Naturalization, she has to file form N-565 - and the filing fee is $555.

Back when I was a government investigator, I'd go to the U.S. District Court and review naturalization records myself, but I don't know if members of the general public were allowed to do that.

Guess I'll soon find out what I can do as a private citizen, now that I no longer have a badge.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 02:20 AM

But why does the nun not have a US passport?

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: GUEST,Senoufou
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 03:57 AM

(Sorry, Logging In isn't working at the moment)

My husband used to be self-employed Steve, and the code for accessing his online Tax self-assessment was ridiculously long. I wrote it down for him and it almost went off the page.

It's very kind of you Joe to help all these folk who are having difficulty with their documentation and status, and your elderly nun friend is lucky to have you to support her
.
There must be some procedure in place if, say, documents were destroyed in a fire or irretrievably lost.
And surely the authorities wouldn't even consider chucking out a lady of such an age, and a harmless nun at at that!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 08:50 PM

Hi, Bonzo3legs - she's 86 now and figured she wasn't in shape to travel home to Ireland any more, so she let her passport lapse. It's expensive to renew them.

But she still plays a mean game of Scrabble. We play ever Friday, and she usually wins.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 09:44 PM

In 2006, the Brennan Center for Justice issued a "Policy Brief on Proof of Citizenshp: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/policy-brief-proof-citizenship. This document shows how a demand for citizenship documents can affect voting.

I would guess that most Americans don't have passports, and this BBC article backs that up: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42586638. It says that 10% of Americans had passports in 1995, but that number was over 40% in 2017. I got my first passport in 1999, when I was 51 years old and planning to visit Europe for the first time since I got out of the Army in 1974. Until 2001, Americans didn't need passports to visit Canada and Mexico and some Caribbean nations, and most Americans couldn't afford to visit Europe - and there was no thought that passports would be required for anything other than international travel.

I think the idea of having to show identification for anything other than liquor purchase or getting stopped for a speeding ticket is alien to most Americans. There is a movement toward requiring identification for more things, but I get the feeling the proponents expect that the requirement won't apply to white Americans unless they have "foreign" accents.

I know a fair number of Hispanic people in my community here in California, a land that was once part of Mexico. Some of these Hispanic people are undocumented, and some are naturalized or are citizens by birth. The current administration causes a lot of fear in the Hispanic community, even among those who are citizens by birth. I was surprised that fear had spread to Irish-born nuns, but apparently some of them are afraid, too.

There are a lot of frightening things happening in the United States these days. I don't think anybody feels safe anymore, now that we're being ruled by the xenophobes.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 06:22 AM

By 'harmless' I meant to the State. Not a terrorist or an Isis sympathiser, or a serious criminal such as a rapist, murderer, bank robber and so on. I wasn't commenting on the moral harmlessness of nuns in general, or this old lady in particular.

I've got to know simply dozens of nuns over the years (Protestant and Roman Catholic) and they were without exception admirable people, all of whom did sterling work in various ways (eg caring for old, ill and lonely folk, offering lessons to inmates in prison, sorting out good clothing for the homeless and the poor, supporting single mums with coffee mornings, running retreats for over-stressed or troubled people, running a hospice and so on)
In any group whatsoever one will find the odd 'undesirable'.

There have been many chuckoutable people in UK who really ought in my view to have been deported, in spite of having achieved Citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 07:14 AM

Hahaha! I wonder if I'm a Harmless Old Anybody? I can be quite naughty at times :)

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 07:30 AM

The UK Home Office is becoming a disgrace, with story after story of people - often from Jamaica - who came here as children in the 1950s with their parents - being told they now have no right to live here and being threatened with deportation. There have been several reports in national newspapers recently. It's stupid, illogical, cruel and heartless. One old lady had worked in the House of Commons for over 30 years and was on the point of being sent to Jamaica, when the press got hold of it, and the order was rescinded.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 07:45 AM

It's very cruel Will. They seem to be concentrating on all the wrong folk. People who have contributed to the UK and have made their lives here for many years, have families here and so on. One can't just chuck them out like that, it's inhumane.
And yet they seem reluctant to get rid of the really bad types who have criminal records, doubtful rights to be here in the first place and come under that category of 'not in the Public Interest' to let them stay.
It shouldn't depend on people with a conscience having to sign petitions and so on. Surely it's obvious when a person is doing no harm and is making a valuable contribution? (As in the case of Joe's elderly nun friend) How insecure and worried they must be!

I had many a run-in with the UK Home Office when my husband applied to come here on a Marriage Visa all those years ago. They made so many silly errors in their processing, and their attitude was appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 08:34 AM

It's a toss-up, or a balancing act if you like, between not creating loopholes and exceptions that could be exploited by the less-than-harmless and treating people like human beings. Imaginative work-arounds by sympathetic officialdom would go a long way.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 09:07 AM

Exactly Steve. I did feel in our case that 'they' had an agenda and a quotient, and their aim was to limit immigration to the barest minimum.
They made some basic administrative errors and we had to mount an Appeal (costing a great deal of money) which was heard in London. The judge in his written report stated quite clearly that there had been several 'simple errors' in their procedures, and he granted the Visa straight away. But there was no way we could get a refund of all the expenses incurred.

But this was long ago, and the climate has changed. Immigration and settlement is an even hotter potato now, and it must be a minefield for the UK Home Office. All the more reason to let through the obviously benign cases, and concentrate on the potentially toxic ones.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 09:09 AM

I'm sorry Joe, this doesn't help you with your friend's problems in USA.
I hope you can find a solution and be able to reassure the nun that she won't be booted out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 10:23 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 18 - 07:18 AM
I had an identical experience with what I thought was my NHS number. You'd have thought that a combination of any four letters followed by any three digits would be sufficient to cover the whole human race, wouldn't you.
No.

To explain, 4 letters followed by three numbers gives only 456,976,000 (26*26*26*26*1000) combinations, so less than half a billion. (world population 7 billion+)
With no format, seven digits which can be either numbers or letters, the permutations cover 36^7 = 78,364,164,096 which would be enough for the world population, but numerous numbers and letters would have to be excluded to avoid confusion (o0, 1IL, 2Z,) so this would reduce the total available.
Also, most reference numbers also use two or more 'check digits' to avoid the possibility of using a number allocated to another account if one digit is wrong, or two digits are reversed. This would make even 36^7 too small a number to cover the whole world population.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Jos
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 10:48 AM

The NHS only needs to cover the UK population (plus those yet to be born or arrive, and those already departed).

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 18 - 11:02 AM

It was just whimsy, Nigel. Just whimsy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Mar 18 - 09:00 AM

It was just whimsy, Nigel. Just whimsy.

Wriggle wriggle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 18 - 09:58 AM

No need.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 09:43 AM

These days, with the "unfriendly environment" declared (in those words) by Theresa May in her previous incarnation as Home Secretary, the UK anti-immigrant authorities are getting vicious. Not just towards people who don't have a legal right to stay here, but towards people with a perfectly good right, who don't have the particular forms of identification they have decided are all they will readily accept, such as the right passport - and of course many people never have had any reason to get a passport.

It's all in the interest of trying to maximise the numbers of people expelled, for political reasons. Plenty of cases of people from the Commonwealth who came here many decades ago as children years before the the clamp down on Commonwealth British citizens coming here, suddenly being jumped on and threatened with deportation, sometimesk locked up to wait a plane, and even being deported to countries they can't even remember, when they've a perfect legal right to be here.

And the nastiness doesn’t stop there. We've been going through an example in our family. Our son's wife is an American who's been living here for years, working in responsible health related jobs. She was previously married to an English citizen, and their son is now in the British Army. But her passport, though valid for travel, isn't the modern one with biometric content, so a few months back she was suddenly told that she isn't allowed to hold employment till she has the modern type of passport. And of course there are no benefits for someone in that position. Fortunately we think it's been sorted out now.

But just wait till Brexit actually happens, and these people are going to be set loose on people from EU countries set on finding any who don't have the particular papers they demand to prove their right to stay...

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 10:16 AM

[from Nigel Parsons - undeleted by Joe] But just wait till Brexit actually happens, and these people are going to be set loose on people from EU countries set on finding any who don't have the particular papers they demand to prove their right to stay...
Surely anyone from the rest of Europe who is currently in the UK will have had a passport with them when they arrived, if they arrived legally.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 10:41 AM

Not necessarily. No need for a passport from Ireland. No particular reason to have a passport if your parents came from Poland back in the 1980s. And passports can get mislaid, even lost by the authorities sometimes, get stolen in the post...

And even if someone from another EU authority had come in without a passport, without it being noticed at arrival (it can happen, especially with children),that wouldn't mean their presence here wouldn't be perfectly legal, including a right to stay here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 11:35 AM

I can become an Irish citizen for much less than before I've just found out. Only €270 to register meself on the foreign births register. The problem is that I need my Grandad's birth certificate, marriage certificate and death certificate. He died in 1974 and no great store was laid by such things at that time in the family, so I reckon I'm stuffed!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 12:02 PM

You'd probably find you could get those from the Irish authorities,Steve - though they might be a bit snowed under at present. A lot of the records from before the Civil War got destroyed in the Four Courts, but there are ways round that if need be. And there are church records of birth and death and marriage and so forth (if you can bear to have such dealings...).

I don't remember having to get on the foreign birth registry myself when got my Irish passport, but that was round 50 years ago, and they might well have tightened things up since then. Or my father might even have registered me with the Irish embassy himself.
Worth the hassle - they're the best passports to have. Means you can still live anywhere in the EU or Little Britain with no hassles, which won't be true for anyone else.

My last post, incidentally, was a response to a post which, has gone missing for some reason, which suggested that anyone from anywhere else legally here in the UK must anyway have a passport already. (That's in case anyone wondered what I was on about there.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 12:19 PM

They won't accept church records, Kevin.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 08:40 PM

I'm surprised if that's always true, at least in the case of the Irish authorities. In the case of someone born in Ireland back at the start of the last century, records of civil birth registration, even they had been made, would likely have been destroyed in the Four Courts episode, whereas the church records still exist. I suspect those would have been used in the case of getting the short form of my grandfather's birth certificate when I needed it. (My father, though as Irish as you could be, was actually born over in England where my Grandfather was running a pub, and was sent back home to Ireland as a baby to grow up there.)

As for marriage and death records, these will exist somewhere in the system, and they can be traced, and you have a legal right to have this done. But in any case, the proof of birth and parentage are the relevant ones in proving you are an Irish patrial. It doesn't make any difference whether your Grandfather ever got round to dying, and the same goes whether your grandparents, or your parents were ever married or not.

What matters is proving your Grandfather was born in Ireland. Once you've got that it's just a matter of proving the parent-child relationship between the relevant people (your Grandfather, your father or mother, and you) - and birth certificates for yourself and your father or mother should be sufficient for that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 09:21 PM

It sounds more elastic than I'd imagined, Kevin. Whether Mrs Steve is up for my spending €270 plus P&P is another matter, as she's conceivably from Jute stock. :-) The blurb does mention wanting the long form of those certificates...

Cheers anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 18 - 09:54 PM

I'd doubt if Jute stock would add up to Danish citizenship, but it might worth trying...

But think if the queues there'll be for non-EU citizens at airports that you'll avoid. And no hassles if you decide to swan off to some exotic part of our EU, once the UK has cut itself off from civilisation.

Good luck anyway. And never take no for an answer when dealing with bureaucracy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Mar 18 - 04:42 AM

I doubt if dual nationality will help with the queues post Brexit (if there is any problem anyway).
As airlines insist on having passport numbers with bookings, will they accept different passports for inward/outward flights?
If not you'll get stuck in the wrong queue in one direction or the other. (Entering UK with an EU passport, or entering EU with a UK passport).

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Mar 18 - 05:50 AM

Oh those queues! Before my husband achieved Citizenship and a UK passport, he had to stand for ages to present his Ivorian passport with the Visa stuck in, and his FLR (Further Leave to Remain) card at the airport entry counter after visiting his family in Africa. He said he stood there for yonks, and I was waiting in Arrivals to pick him up, so I know only too well how long it took. But it was necessary to thoroughly check all incomers, I can appreciate that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 18 - 07:56 PM

Not a question about dual citizenship. Citizens go through easier than foreigners everywhere.

Irish citizens count as native for entry to the UK, even after Brexit - we've been pledged that repeatedly by Theresa May (well, yeah "pledges" like that always means "cross your fingers), and that applies just as much at Heathrow or Dover as it does on the border in Ireland.

And of course in any EU entry point, after Brexit British will mean foreign. Don't judge by previous experience when you were (as you still are) EU citizens.

Not two passports, one passport - the Irish one, gets you right of entry throughout the EU and also Little Britain. And liable to be viewed more favourably that the British passport in a lot of places round the world, incidentally.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 01:09 AM

The immigration fees for both US and EU seem awfully high to me. Everything seems weighted toward serving the wealthy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 02:23 AM

Nigel, airlines most definitely do accept different passports for inward and outward flights, and this is irrelevant anyway as once you get off the plane you are free to stand in any queue. My children are all dual Australian/British nationals, its actually illegal for them to try to enter Australia on their British passports (I believe the USA has the same rule). But entering Britain they use their British passports. So they aren't in the wrong queue in either direction.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 03:04 AM

Afriqiyah Airways (Libya-based airline) were quite sniffy about my husband's Ivorian passport when I booked his first flight to UK. The British Embassy had stuck his entry Visa in it, but they insisted he buy a return ticket as well. Abidjan to Gatwick was about £400 in those days, and they tried to make him pay double that. But it was mere corruption. I had to ring their office and blast their skins off (in French) and they decided he could fly one way after all. Very stressful.
The Ivorians insist that their nationals present themselves at the Ivorian Embassy in London every five years to renew their passports. One cannot do it by post. So he has to get a Megabus all that way to Victoria and walk to his Embassy. It's a biometric passport, so they need to check that the measurements of his face fit the photo. He's put on quite a bit of weight over the years and they always make rude remarks about his fat face!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: BobL
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 03:45 AM

Not a bad little walk - hardly worth taking the bus even when it's free!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 05:49 AM

Yes Bob, it's only a toddle. And he loves looking at all the swanky houses along the way. But it's the Megabus journey. He has to get the 6am one, to arrive at 9am and get to his Embassy for the appointment.
So we get up at 5am and I drive him into Norwich for his bus. It's a bit of a drag, but it's the only way for him to renew. Also, he always wants his very best suit and whitest shirt, so he can cut a dash in the posh part of London!

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 18 - 04:41 PM

A nuisance, but a day-out in London one day every five years isn't too bad.

I'd love to see Ireland and Cote d'Ivoire come up against each other in the World Cup, what with both countries having essentially the same national flag, just turned the other way.
............
I can never understand how the British government can get away with some of the stuff they pull in harassing people targeted, which involves tearing families apart, given they are still subject to a legal obligation to respect family life. I suppose they depend on the cost involved in legal challenges carried on the necessary extent.

And even they they do give up on trying to deport people who do have a legal right to stay, there never seems to be any adequate compensation for the expense and suffering caused - still less any penal sanctions against the bureaucrats, officials and politicians who have colluded in the injustice. Depriving people of liberty when they have done nothing whatever wrong is a very serious matter, not something that should be shrugged off.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: CupOfTea
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 09:28 AM

The US is just as eager to chuck out anyone they can get away with, as well as denying asylum to those who are in dire need. Some of the stories that flit by on news feeds, ya just don't know if you should be crying or fuming, but usually it's both.

A particularly horrifying case was the woman with a young child who were put into detention, separately, in far different parts of the country, though twice being judged worthy of asylum. 7 year old daughter, torn from her mother for no legitimate reason, was put up as an example to warn foreigners that coming here wasn't going to improve their lives any.

A man was JUST granted citizenship after over a decade's time of being exiled to Mexico, a place he came from as a small child. He enlisted in the army, served well enough for an honorable discharge, with citations and honors. PTSD from combat took him to some sad places, so deporting him as a unwanted immigrant rather than the promised citizenship was thought necessary. What did he do in the land foreign to him? Started a resource center for other American Veterans deported to Mexico!

Worthy, hardworking, pillars-of-their-community folks are being given the boot more than ever, and should the community be any version of hyphenate- American, they're top of the list. The excesses of this administration are merely illuminating a process that is inherently xenophobic; such an irony for a country BASED on immigration and fleeing oppression.

Joanne in Cleveland ( trying to remember where my passport is)

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 02:16 PM

Steve, if you have your grandfather's date and place of birth you should be able to get his birth cert online from the authorities in Ireland. There are firms that will get this for you for a nice fee (nice for them, that is); you can get it directly through the General Register Office.

I didn't take your reference to "not all elderly nuns" as having anything to do with Joe's friend, but as a reference to the abuse of women and children by nuns in Ireland. I was about to say historic, but there was a case last year of a religious-run home for disabled people abusing them.

Perhaps your friend, Joe, should keep her head down. Dublin Airport's US immigration clearance is notorious, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 02:17 PM

Weird, that blue clicky didn't work. Here's the link: https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/i-was-frogmarched-through-dublin-airport-by-an-armed-us-customs-guard-26569814.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Immigration Authorities
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 02:18 PM

Thanks for that and that, Thompson!