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BS: News interview for Keith & Bob...
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:55 AM Al, I say Carruthers!. That's rather strong! I do feel quite strongly about Jim telling lies about me. He does it a lot. Dave, Not just your friend. Today is a bad news day for Labour. "Ruth Smeeth, the Labour MP for Stoke-on-Trent North, said: "Dan (Simpson) has been an excellent member of our team, and I'm incredibly concerned by the optics of the first act by the new general secretary being to put on gardening leave the most senior Jewish member of staff employed by the party (Sec. Labour PLP)." |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:54 AM It really is time we stopped allowing Keith to divert this into a right-wing political crusade(as he did wuith the rape of young girls to make it an Islamophobic rant and the rape of harassment of women, and discussed the subject seriously Keith has no more interest in the Jewish People than do his two mates - he has proved himself an antisemite by supporting wartime antisemitism and his two mates supported him with their refusal to condemn his antisemitism. His and their silence is an indication that that antisemitism remains with this bunch - Theirr stance is a political one, so if we are to proceed with this, we need to do so with that in mind Of course there is antisemitism in the Labour party, as their is every other party - Israel has made sure of that by using the Jewish People as human shileds to protect themselves from the consequences of War Crimes If Israel links their actions with the Interests of the Jewish People then people are going to take that up - in essence, Netanyahu has painted a target on every Jew on the planet It would be ridiculous to claim that that hasn't effected some Labour Party members Labour has taken these accusations seriously and looked into them - the Tories haven't even begun to respond seriously to accusations of racism against their members This campaign against Labour has been concocted by the anti-BDS crowd, assisted by right-wing opponents of Corbyn, to destabilise the opposition to the ethnic cleansing that is taking place at present The timeline of these accusations (are largely historically-based incidents that have long been ignored for years and have now been dredged up now Labour looks like becoming a principles party) coincide with Corbyn's statement of support for the Palesinian people. It doesn't mean that the accusations are groundless and don't need investigation, but they need to be handled in the light of why they were raised in the first place - and why Keith is behaving as he is now. A REMINDER of WHAT THIS is REALLY ABOUT by somebody who really should know by his personal experiences - from the now-closed thread Don't forget - it was the promotion of the events that led to this man's experiences that Keith described as being 'as unimportant as the theme song from 'Dad's Army' Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:52 AM Jim - Infesting ants require sprays and powder.. Annoying flying bugs require electrified tennis racket shaped devices.. Weeds require weedkilllers and or elbow grease and a fork /spade.. Obsessive nuisance forum posters require being totally starved of attention... |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Raggytash Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:52 AM What are they then Al, perchance ............. Al Whittle MB? :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 05 Apr 18 - 09:48 AM a filthy liar! I say Carruthers!. That's rather strong! try 'an unmitigated bounder'! personally, I am a mitigated bounder. I have the letters after my name to prove it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:47 AM Mr Garfield, who is also a Labour council candidate, said he could confirm from “first hand experience” that accusations of anti-Semitism in the Labour party “both individual and institutionalised” were “not without foundation”. It can not be claimed that he is "right wing establishment" or even right wing Labour or an opponent of Corbyn. You can not dismiss all these accusations as political. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:22 AM Dave, I predict that his claims will get more and more outrageous I have not made an outrageous claim. If I have, quote it. Jim outrageously claimed that I chose to ignore a statement from Momentum that they never made! Jim made it all up! Outrageous liar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:19 AM "Jim, that is not ignoring him!" Sorry - lack of concentration - heavy night! Won't happen again Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 08:18 AM Today's news, Jewish Momentum organiser resigns over ‘deep-seated prejudices’ in local branch. Joshua Garfield stepped down as a Youth Officer of the Jeremy Corbyn campaign group’s Newham steering branch, saying he’s “experienced more anti-Semitism in the past week than I ever have in my eight years of Labour Party membership”. Posting a statement on social media, he said online discussions between members of the group about Labour’s anti-Semitism problem featured “deep-seated prejudices.. aired confidently and which went unchallenged.” He said these discussions “leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience”, adding that he has “felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I have decided to step down.” Garfiled insists his politics “remain unchanged” and he fully supports “a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn”, but that he “cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.” His letter of resignation adds: “Denying that antisemitism exists within the Labour Party, or in its affiliated organisations, factions, and supporters is misguided, ignorant and offensive. “While some may seek to weaponise the issue, something cannot be weaponised if it doesn’t exist. Our Jewish comrades need solidarity, not faction based infighting.” |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:39 AM Jim, ignore means that. Just ignore it. I predict that his claims will get more and more outrageous in an effort to goad someone into an argument but if everyone just ignores it, it will eventually stop. May take a few months but it will happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:26 AM Jim, if you are not a filthy liar, produce the "statement" you claim I "choose to ignore." Feel free to help him Dave and Rag. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 07:00 AM Jim, that is not ignoring him! |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:57 AM Call me a liar for that bit and I'll repost your actually doing that - please don't disappoint me and deprive me of the pleasure of doing so Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:56 AM "filthy liar" There u you go again Keith - the reason you are regarded as a mindess troll I'm sick to the back teeth of feeding your trollism by providing links I already have and having you ignore them again To repeat the exercise is only to feed your mindless trollism Grow up or go away - why on earth should anybody need to lie to you when you do more damage to yourself than anybody else possibly could There's nothing more ridiculous than a self-exposed antisemite who defends the murder of Jews (at a time when they really were being murdered and persecuted - later by the millions), accusing anybody of antisemitism Jim Carrol |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Raggytash Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:47 AM Am I alone is hearing someone call Me! Me! Me! I want some attention!! My advice would be to ignore the troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:26 AM Tories now seen as more divided than Labour Britain now has a four-party system |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:16 AM McGrath, The truth is there is a significant minority inside the Labour Party especially perhaps in the House of Commons, who would prefer a Conservative government to one in which Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone sharing his political views, was Prime Minister. I agree Kevin. There is a civil war within the party. No-one outside is to blame for it. The issue is Corbyn's leadership. Those who can not accept it should go. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Apr 18 - 06:11 AM Jim, if you are not a filthy liar, produce the "statement" you claim I "choose to ignore." Or Dave, perhaps you know what statement he meant. PFR, basically the same tune sung with slightly different words from the right wing establishment dirty tricks songbook... All the accusations come from inside Labour, not from any "right wing establishment." |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 05:14 AM Sorry for three in a row but this one tickled me :-) Corbyn Dioxide :D tG |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:11 AM Back to the plot... PERSONAL STATEMENT BY GLYN SECKER AS Secretary of JVL I am outraged by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council’s false allegations that the Labour Party is endemically anti-Semitic, and their personal attack on Jeremy Corbyn. This manoeuvre is a thinly veiled attempt to sabotage Labour's performance in the upcoming local elections. It's an onslaught, triggered by Jewish communal organisations, and has been eagerly seized on by the national media, and the Tory Party plus its DUP supporters. The demand by the BOD and JLC for the summary expulsion of two members of the party, as a condition for even meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, is outrageous. They also make a completely inconsistent demand for the immediate implementation of the disciplinary recommendations of the Chakrabarti Report into antisemitism and other forms of racism. Those recommendations insist on due process and natural justice, which the BoD/JLC demand that the Labour Party totally ignore for two named individuals. One of the targeted members is Jackie Walker, who is a member of Jewish Voice for Labour. I have no doubts whatsoever that there are no grounds for her current suspension (for alleged antisemitism), let alone for her expulsion. The allegations against her, which have no substance, must be lifted. Failing that, they must be subjected to due process, in order to determine whether or not there is even a prima facie case. The attempted political lynching of a Black woman, who is also Jewish fills me with disgust, and aligns these two formerly respected organisations with the disreputable methods of Senator Joseph McCarthy. As a Jew I completely disassociate myself from their unprincipled behavior. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:00 AM Aye, sadly you are right Jim but democracy seems to be the best of bad bunch at the moment. If it were up to me I would disqualify from standing for parliament anyone who thought they could run peoples lives on the grounds of insanity. Never mind. It will all be better when I am the benign dictator :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Apr 18 - 03:56 AM "put back on track by Corbyn or someone like him" 'Put not your trust in Princes' - as the man said Corbyn seems a cut above the rest and if I lived in Britain I would probably vote for him, but he's a politician - politicians have a nasty habit of letting you down Blair was a rising star of decent politics at one time Vote for them, admire them - but don't take your eyes off any of them for one minute Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 Apr 18 - 03:27 AM I hope you are right, Steve. I also hope that people have seen the pitfalls of the populism which saw the rise of Nigel the Toad, Donald Twitler and Brexit. Politics has turned into a farce and unless it is put back on track by Corbyn or someone like him we will all suffer the consequences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:15 PM That's right. I'm sure that the disaffected ex-Blairites want to see Corbyn trounced, then five more Tory years, then the Blairites back in power. A total pipe-dream. My strong feeling is that Labour has changed forever, and, looking back at some of the more shameful aspects of Blairism - lack of financial regulation, burgeoning gap between rich and poor, the Iraq legacy, etc. - that's all for the better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:14 PM "Jim, just ignore him. You know he just craves attention." Yup - done that - hope everybody does - he's an infestation Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Apr 18 - 06:35 PM The truth is there is a significant minority inside the Labour Party especially perhaps in the House of Commons, who would prefer a Conservative government to one in which Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone sharing his political views, was Prime Minister. John Woodcock MP, who has been cited in this thread, in said precisely that in the course of the last General Election, when he declared that he "would not countenance" Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. Predictably he is working to prevent that happening. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Apr 18 - 05:07 PM Just watching the news about BoJo and the FO's latest load of bollocks. Guess what. It seems to be JC's fault. Mismanagement. What mismanagement? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Apr 18 - 05:01 PM Even down to the donkey jacket! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 04 Apr 18 - 04:00 PM Dave - basically the same tune sung with slightly different words from the right wing establishment dirty tricks songbook... |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Iains Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:59 PM I hate taking Corbyn's side but in the case of the Russian poisoning farce,he seems to be the only one with a grain of sense and needs to grab full control of his own party. As RT states"Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, who condemned the attack but called for a thorough investigation, was savaged not just by the Tories, but also his own Parliamentary party, simply for taking a cautious line in Parliament on March 14. Thirty-six Labour MPs signed an Early Day Motion – sponsored by arch Corbyn-critic John Woodcock – which declared "This House UNEQUIVOCALLY accepts the Russian state's culpability for the poisoning of Yulia and Sergei Skripal." The EDM supported the expulsion of Russian diplomats and the calling of a special meeting of the UN Security Council to "discuss Russia's use of chemical weapons on UK soil." |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:38 PM It would be nice if they keep it up though. It seems the more shit they throw, the more popular he gets :-) Support for Corbyn grows |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:29 PM Jim, just ignore him. You know he just craves attention. Indeed, PFR. They have used the same tactics on both. Running scared is the phrase that I have used before and I stick by it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:43 PM "You lied" Keith Do youi know the story of 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf@ You have called so many peopple on this forum "liars" so many times that if you said tomorrow is Thursday nobody would believe you You really have shat in your own nest with your distortion and insulting behaviour Don't expect a response to your hate-mail from me but please, please keep it up - please Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:38 PM Dave - I do recall the pro Tory media'a early 1980s diversionary divisive strategy deployed to vilify Michael Foot, [His equivalent of 'anti semitism'..] was nuclear disarmament and the bogeymen 'Loony Left'... Seen it all before...!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:24 PM Dave, The smears all come from inside Labour, not from rival parties. No-one else is to blame. Jim, You accused me of "choosing to ignore" a "statement" from Momentum. You lied. There was no such statement. If it existed you would have posted it in your trade mark big, red capitals. You reveal yourself yet again to be nothing but a filthy liar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Apr 18 - 12:56 PM Now, there you have it, PFR. There are elections coming up. The smears will get worse as it gets closer. Someone is running scared. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: punkfolkrocker Date: 04 Apr 18 - 12:16 PM please... could someone, anyone, remind me if the British Labour party has any other business, purpose, function, priority, agenda than focusing on Jews and antisemitism....?????????? Only there are elections coming up soonish, and it might be helpful for floating voters to know if Labour are interested in any other political causes and issues.....???????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Apr 18 - 11:04 AM Anyone who views the mild-mannered and quietly-spoken Jeremy Corbyn as "sour and bitter" really isn't paying attention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: bobad Date: 04 Apr 18 - 10:59 AM Here's an example of a party leader making an appropriate and gracious apology and showing leadership by owning a mistake and moving toward a resolution. These are traits which appear to be seriously lacking in the makeup of the leader of UK Labour, a man who presents as a sour and bitter man. I have a deep respect for the Jewish community. The Passover graphic the Manitoba NDP posted over the weekend was a mistake. We took it down as soon as we could. I’m sorry to anyone who was distracted by this during your time with family and thanks to everyone who reached out with your thoughtful teachings. I will work to increase our cultural awareness. I wish everyone the best for the remaining days of Passover! The apology was issued by the leader of a provincial New Democratic Party which in Canada is similar in many respects to UK Labour. An inappropriate photo accompanying a Passover greeting was posted on the Party's web page. The photo wasn't anti-Semitic or anything like that it was merely culturally inappropriate to the holiday and reflected someone not taking the trouble to acquaint them self with the symbology associated with the commemoration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Apr 18 - 10:28 AM As none of our friends who choose tyo blame the Jewish People for Israel's atrocities seem inclined to respond to what the writer had to say, perhaps it's time to look at what others thought of what she wrote Jim Carroll Elizabeth Block October 31, 2016, 2:48 pm When Hajo Meier was on his speaking tour (his presentation was titled “Never Again for Anyone”), no mainstream Jewish venue in Toronto would give him a platform. He spoke at the Winchevsky Centre (secular, left-wing Jews) and Quaker House. And some Toronto Jews called him an anti-Semite. Rashers2 October 31, 2016, 10:15 pm Thank you, Lillian Rosengarten. “Zionism is not a religion but a political movement,” is the central but inexpedient truth, which Israel flagrantly ignores when its politicians seek to portray themselves as acting for and representing all Jews, everywhere. It is no surprise that the self-serving effect of this portrayal is exactly to increase hostility towards all Jews, everywhere – even though many Diaspora Jews will not set foot in Israel, let alone make Aliyah. It is therefore understandable although not excusable that Jewish communities in Europe are targeted by those who hate Israel’s actions and policies; and who, ironically, have themselves come to believe Israel’s great lie. If a big enough lie is repeated often enough, it becomes accepted as the truth – I wonder who said that….. It will be a shameful victory for Hasbara and the Western Israel apologists if governments such as my own enshrine this wholly false conflation between a religion and a political ideology in laws conceived to protect religious and ethnic minorities from persecution and incitements to violence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: peteglasgow Date: 04 Apr 18 - 09:25 AM imagine the powers that be (and have been for centuries) had their wealth and power challenged from time to time - how might (did) they respond? might they use a massive campaign of smears, lies and misinformation to discredit the opponents of their privileges? might they buy off, disappear, terrify and murder people who stood in their way? (david kelly, rachel corrie and blair peach come to mind) might they play the age old game of divide and rule? or another war? it's straightforward enough - some people get very angry about dodgy pictures and lively meetings where (allegedly) some people say controversial things. for other people, breaking international law and murdering and impoverishing a neighbouring country is also a serious matter. we are all different - though maybe not that much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Apr 18 - 09:02 AM Dave, a political party steeped in anti-Semitism Which party is that then? I suspect he meant the only party whose problems with anti-Semitism have dominated the news for weeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: bobad Date: 04 Apr 18 - 09:00 AM Which party is that then? Check out the news, it's all out there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: bobad Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:57 AM Wrong sort of Jew then? Just a radical fringe group of extremists but if that's who someone is trying to use to legitimize their position on Israel it should be made known from whence that opinion emanates. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:57 AM a political party steeped in anti-Semitism Which party is that then? Still think he's fit to be the leader of UK Labour? Yes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:55 AM Jim, choosing to ignore their (momentum) statement that there is more antisemitism in the Tory Party than there is in Labour If you were not just blatantly lying again, produce this "statement" that I "ignore." You made an accusation against me. Was it a lie? |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: bobad Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:46 AM One really has to question the judgement of the leader of a political party steeped in anti-Semitism who attempts a display of Jewish cred by attending a ritual gathering put on by a fringe group of fanatics who make a mockery of that very religion. Only the latest misstep of many that he has been apologizing for lately. Still think he's fit to be the leader of UK Labour? |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Raggytash Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:40 AM Quite correct McGrath, but I do hope you don't expect certain people on this site to acknowledge the veracity of what you type. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:34 AM As I've pointed out before, on the eve of World War Two Mahatma Gandhi wrote a letter to Adolf Hitler urging him to step back from the brink of war. He started it by addressing him as "Dear Friend.". He wasn't indicating support of Nazism. Nor was he being ironic. He was being courteous, because he viewed courtesy as important in all kinds of situations, including confrontations with the worst people. Corbyn has in many ways the same attitude. His use of the term friend in these cases was an expression of this. He sees it as part of the process of communicating with others. It's a formally, analogous to the House of Commonns practice of referring to "the honourable member". I To attack people for preserving courtesy in dialogue is in my view wrong minded. Sometimes there are those who think that there is something insincere and inauthentic about that kind of thing. We should speak outunreservedly and shout our adversaries down, and show off our ability to throw insults in our arguments. In the words of Miss Jean Brodie, for those who like it, that is the kind of thing they like. |
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Subject: RE: BS: News interview for Keith & Bob... From: Raggytash Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:26 AM There's a well known saying Bobad that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You would do well to consider that. |