BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 09:04 PM

You wish.......lol.

---

Your wish is my command . . .

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:42 PM

Leave it, Jim. This thread should just die.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:37 PM

"Your references to bobad did not deal with what bobad has been saying in the posts above. "
Bobad has been screaming "Jew hater" at anybody who dares to criticise the actions of Israel for as long as I can remember - at least five years, I think
There isn't a shelf-life to such behaviour- Bobad is a hate-filled troll who has always drawn his evidence that Islam is a degenerate religion fro some of the worst racist sites on the net - from Muslim watch to The White supremacist" - he continues to do so
"You are the one constantly making accusations without evidence. "
Now you're behaving like Keith - I probably link more evidence than anybody else on this forum - the fact that you either don't read it or don't agree with it is immaterial - you certainly never provide any counter-evidence to dispute it - why not?
"I am ASSUMING you quote correctly,"
Please don't smear me - I never doctor evidence and I usually provide links unlike your protege Bobad
You peapole seem to base you whole approach on smears - like Bearded Bruce has just smeared a Holocaust survivor he suggested as "far left" - he was member of a Green left organisation - how "far left" is that
Opposing the mass murder the Isreali regime has carried out otr facilitated over the years - from, Sabra/Shatila to last week's massacre isnt being "far left" - it's being a human being
"And isn't saying that the opinion of ONE American of Jewish descent is the policy of Israel anti-Semitic ?"
Are you joking
I have linked to masses of evidence hundreds of Jews from all over the world who are horrified at what Israel is doin "Jews for Justice", "Rabbis for Justice", "Haaretz"....
I,ve jyst linked to a Holocaust survivor(the one you described as being "far left")
I've recently quoted mases from American Jews (the woman who made me aware of your "far left" Hajo Meyer
Sorry - not even the shadow of a cigar
You people are supporting the same attitude and actions of those who sent six million Jews to their deaths - not one of you have had the bottle to condemn Israel for appeasing them
Trumps party is riddled with open racist and anti-semites and they Jerusalem will have an underground station named after him for future generations of Israelis to admire
European neo fascism is hailing the Israeli leadership and Netunyahu is basking in their praise - you people stay silent
One of your number broke his balls telling us how harmless British wartime fascism which was calling for the death of Jews was as harmless as "the theme tune of Dad's Army" - you and Bobad knew this and were asked to comment - you stayed silent then and when the matter was raised again you still stay silent
I believe you people (not "Jews" - supporters of the Israeli regime) are antisemites - if not in your beliefs then in your natures - you are most certainly appeasers of antisemitism
And you lot of wee jobbies call the Labour Party antisemitic !!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:42 PM

It's a good thing you didn't say Allah almighty or else you would have Carroll going apoplectic.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 04:44 PM

What a bloody terrible thread. Christ almighty.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 04:29 PM

Hopefully, these work.   Nice to know this about Leftists...

http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html

http://markhumphrys.com/IRA/4.JPG

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:47 PM

NOW I understand you Jim....



"the IRA supported the Nazis, and the Nazis supported the IRA. The IRA helped the Luftwaffe bomb Belfast and Derry.

Hitler would of course have done to Ireland what he did to every other country. In the Wannsee Conference notes of Jan 1942, Ireland's 4,000 Jews were listed for extermination. No doubt Irish quislings would have helped in this, as quislings helped in every other country.

Luckily, the IRA failed in their plans, and the Jews of Ireland were not exterminated. The IRA has still not apologised for this. "

a href="http://www.markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html">http://www.markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1538969/Ireland-welcomed-Hitlers-henchmen.html

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:33 PM

Jim:
Your references to bobad did not deal with what bobad has been saying in the posts above. You referenced without links alleged extremist posts not in evidence. I have participated in many threads with you all, and I do not recall bobad being more extreme than yourself.
You seem to have a peg-the-needle approach to this debate. You are the one constantly making accusations without evidence. What you have quoted above, and for the purpose of this post I am ASSUMING you quote correctly, is an extreme end of a diversity of opinion. I have no trouble with diversity of opinion, which can be thought of as one end or another of a 'bell' curve. It's gonna be there. If you so chose, you could probably come up with an extreme 'right' quote which brands any trace of anti-Zionism as racism in denying all Jews access to their ancestral homeland.
Oh, but you've omitted the vast middleground of opinion and seized on one end of it as YOUR middleground, and YOU have determined that anyone not stuck on your position is the racist.
Meanwhile, even leaders in Saudi Arabia have moved along, which puts you just where, exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:28 PM

And isn't saying that the opinion of ONE American of Jewish descent is the policy of Israel anti-Semitic ?

So pay up to "claiming my donation to your charity" AIPAC will do. Waiting on the donation.



As for the rest of your comments,

I called YOU a liar- I said I disagreed with his far Left view of things.

As for supporting massacres, YOU are the one here that seems to be doing that.

"Anybody who denigrates a survivor of Auschwitz to defend mass murder by an ultra right terroriist state is a piece of shit as far as I'm concerned "
Since IMO YOU are denigrating him,I guess my opinion that you are a piece of shit is supported by your own comment.


"YOU PEOPLE"?

You mean Jews that disagree with you?

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:10 PM

!I am not the state of Israel."
You have defended every scummy actuion they have ever taken - including mas murder
You may as well be a sitting member of the Knesset (on the extreme right wing, of course"
"Your presumption of God-hood is not welcome here. " I listen to what people are saying - you don't, unless they are defending the same atrocities you do
"They have the same say that they have since 1948"
Like the old Auschwitz survivor you have just called a liar, you mean?
"I confirm NOTHING other than you have made unsupported statements"
Who do I believe -= a raving ultra right supporter of massacres or a former inmate of Auschwitz (can I have some time to think about that?)
"And YOU should be ashamed for reading it into what I posted"
You said - "That certainly is a far-Left viewpoint. Thank you for presenting it. "
what else is there to be read into what you said - you called him a liar
Meyes politics were described as "of the Dutch Green Left."
Anybody who denigrates a survivor of Auschwitz to defend mass murder by an ultra right terroriist state is a piece of shit as far as I'm concerned - I don't know why Im even responding to you - I wouldn't talk to the BNP or the French National Front
If I described a Holocaust survivor the way you just did you'd be claiming my donation to your charity and I'd be paying it.
You people really are the dregs of humanity
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:49 PM

Mr Carroll,


I am not the state of Israel.

Nor are YOU.

You have expressed your opinion- many of us in the real world think it false.



Your presumption of God-hood is not welcome here.

"So holocaust survivors no longer have a say in Israel if they don't embrace extremist right politics"

They have the same say that they have since 1948, when the ARABS tried to destroy the state of Israel. AND continue to try. "NEVER AGAIN"



"Thank you for confirming that thais has nothing to do with either the Jewish peoplem or humanitarianism"

I confirm NOTHING other than you have made unsupported statements about what other people think ACCORDING TO YOU.




"What a hatefully inhuman remark and what a wonderful way to commemorate six million dead remark"

And YOU should be ashamed for reading it into what I posted- it is obvious that YOU are the one who is "inhuman" and "hateful"

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:38 PM

"That certainly is a far-Left viewpoint. Thank you for presenting it. "
So holocaust survivors no longer have a say in Israel if they don't embrace extremist right politics
Thank you for confirming that thais has nothing to do with either the Jewish peoplem or humanitarianism
What a hatefully inhuman remark and what a wonderful way to commemorate six million dead remark

Incidentally Bodad
You credited your latest unlinked article to Aron Heller - perhaps this ARTICLE BY HIM might interest you though I doubt it ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 01:02 PM

That certainly is a far-Left viewpoint. Thank you for presenting it.

"Like most German Jews, I was raised in a secular and humanist tradition that was more antagonistic than sympathetic towards the Zionist enterprise."

And had not changed even with his experiences.



I do not agree with his assessments.


"After his retirement ... worked as a builder of new violins and violas."

As is my intent- I repair them now.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 12:41 PM

Hajo Meyer

Early life
Born in Bielefeld, in 1938 Meyer fled Nazi Germany to the Netherlands alone, without his parents.[3] He went into hiding in 1943, but was arrested after a year and spent ten months in Auschwitz. His parents, who had also been deported to Auschwitz from Germany, did not survive.
Post-Holocaust
After the war, Meyer returned to the Netherlands, and studied theoretical physics. He eventually became director of the Phillips Physics Laboratory (NatLab). After his retirement he took courses in England and worked as a builder of new violins and violas.
Later career
In his later years, Meyer became politically active, including as director of A Different Jewish Voice. He wrote Het einde van het Jodendom (The End of Judaism) in 2003, which accuses Israel of abusing the Holocaust to justify crimes against the Palestinians. He was a member of the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network. He participated in the 2011 "Never Again – For Anyone" tour. He claimed Zionism predates fascism, that Zionists and fascists had a history of cooperation (Nazi/Zionist cooperation was the subject of 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis, which was collected and edited by Lenni Brenner), charging, among other things, that Israel wants to foment anti-Semitism in the world to encourage more Jews to migrate to Israel.
Meyer spoke in favor of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel.[5] Meyer was a member of the Dutch GreenLeft.

A remarkable statement from a remarkable man


An Ethical Tradition Betrayed
By Hajo Meyer
I was 20 years old when Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviet army 55 years ago. This occurred just in time because 10 months imprisonment in Auschwitz-Gleiwitz- had weakened me considerably. One needed a hell of a lot of luck in order to survive that long under the circumstances in that camp.
Two important components of luck were on my side. First, during my first years as a refugee kid in the Netherlands I had learned to be a locksmith. So during the very strong winter of ‘44-‘45 I worked in the warmth of a factory. Second, I had acquired a very good and completely trustworthy friend, called Jos. We helped each other as much as possible. The two of us did indeed survive.
Another aspect of my friendship with Jos was that in spite of — or better, due to — the extremely high number of people per square foot in such a camp, one felt extremely lonely. Because of our friendship, mutual help and absolute mutual trust we were not lonely. This was vital to our psychological survival.
Psychological survival is at least as important as physical survival. In fact, the Nazi concentration camps were their attempt to dehumanize us Jews. If a prisoner became part of the oppression system by being Kapo, the dehumanization would be successful. Obviously, the non-Jewish members of the oppression system were also no longer fully human. I realized there that anybody from a dominating group who tries to dehumanize people from a minority group, can only do so if by education, indoctrination and propaganda he has already been dehumanized himself, independent of the uniform he wears.
It is a deep tragedy that in Israel this is not what one concludes from the experiences in Auschwitz. To the contrary, Auschwitz is elevated there into a new religion.
“In the beginning is Auschwitz,” wrote Elie Wiesel. “Nothing should be compared to the Holocaust but everything must be related to it.” This elevation has allowed it to be exploited for political ends. All that was once most valued in a rich and varied Jewish heritage — the centrality of the ethical tradition, for instance — disappears beside the Nazi attempt at annihilation. This Holocaust religion translates in the minds of many into the impossibility that Israel can do any wrong.
Auschwitz existed within history, not outside of it. The main lesson I learned there is simple: We Jews should never, ever become like our tormentors — not even to save our lives. Even at Auschwitz, I sensed that such a moral downfall would render my survival meaningless.
Like most German Jews, I was raised in a secular and humanist tradition that was more antagonistic than sympathetic towards the Zionist enterprise. Since 1967 it has become obvious that political Zionism has one monolithic aim: Maximum land in Palestine with a minimum of Palestinians on it. This aim is pursued with an inexcusable cruelty as demonstrated during the assault on Gaza. The cruelty is explicitly formulated in the Dahiye doctrine of the military and morally supported by the Holocaust religion.
I am pained by the parallels I observe between my experiences in Germany prior to 1939 and those suffered by Palestinians today. I cannot help but hear echoes of the Nazi mythos of “blood and soil” in the rhetoric of settler fundamentalism which claims a sacred right to all the lands of biblical Judea and Samaria. The various forms of collective punishment visited upon the Palestinian people — coerced ghettoization behind a “security wall”; the bulldozing of homes and destruction of fields; the bombing of schools, mosques, and government buildings; an economic blockade that deprives people of the water, food, medicine, education and the basic necessities for dignified survival — force me to recall the deprivations and humiliations that I experienced in my youth. This century-long process of oppression means unimaginable suffering for Palestinians.
It is not too late to learn a different lesson from Auschwitz. For example, in the last year, the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network has become a means for many — including young Jews in the United States — to challenge the precepts of Zionism and support the Palestinian call for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. Their goal, and mine, is to challenge the dispossession and exclusivity of a Jewish state, in their names and in mine. They understand the urgency of the classical Jewish concept of teshuvah, return from the wrong road. Further, they understand that the pursuit of justice and making ethically positive sense out of senseless suffering is not only part of an ancient Jewish interpretation and shaping of history, but is crucial for all of us in creating the world we want to live in, and to our moral survival.

Hajo Meyer is the author of The End of Judaism: An Ethical Tradition Betrayed.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 11:42 AM

This is what's happening in Gaza today:

JERUSALEM — Israel said Wednesday it has arrested 10 Palestinians suspected of planning an attack against a navy ship off the Gaza coast, just days after it accused Gaza militants of using mass protests along its border with Israel as cover to stage further attacks.

The Shin Bet security service said the interrogation of the cell’s alleged leader revealed a plan to send a decoy boat from Gaza to distract the navy ship while another would fire a rocket at it. The plan called for militants to then try to abduct wounded sailors and keep them as bargaining chips for future prisoner swaps. Amin Jamaa was being indicted Wednesday at a court in southern Israel.

The Shin Bet identified him and his cohorts as members of the Islamic Jihad militant group and said they were abusing the easing of Israeli restrictions on Gaza fisherman to collect intelligence on Israel’s naval operations along the coast.

by Aron Heller?|?AP April 4 at 5:57 AM

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 10:35 AM

Opposing viewpoints to my own are always welcome- but I expect to be treated fairly in the discussion, and be able to act under the same rules as those who disagree with me.
Difficult on Mudcat, but there are some people who are more interested in a discussion of the facts than in toeing the party line.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 10:24 AM

Don't play into his hand BB you'll only get this thread shutdown, just ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 10:24 AM

BTW, three of a kind beats a joker every time.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 10:07 AM

Sorry, you were not even dealt in.

You lose.

When you are willing to play by discussion of facts, and not personal attacks and accusations, you can get back in the game.

When you invoke the SRS rule that only those sources that apriori agree with you are allowed, you have already lost.

When you expect others to believe YOUR sources, and you refuse to accept other's sources, you have already lost.

When you make unsupported claims about what others are thinking, and insist it be believed, yet do not accept it when they state what YOU are thinking, you have lost.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 09:50 AM

Keith, Bruce, Bobad - three of a kind, I thing
This hand's mine lads - deal again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 09:12 AM

I just ignore anyone who has a fixation with Jews and Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:58 AM

Jim, you can only reply with baseless personal attacks again.

I stated nothing but facts.
You are just a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:54 AM

Jim,

Your misconceptions, and outright lies are your problem, not mine.

I deny both Islamophobia and antisemitism: Perhaps you should reconsider your libel.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:28 AM

Go talk to Bruce Keith - he believes the Jewish People are responsible for Israeli atrocities just as you do
Maybe you can go for a pint together and share your Islamophobia and antisenitism in convivial surroundings
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:03 AM

Jim,
Anybody who believes that all he has to do is to deny something to make it untrue is a raving psychopathic nut-case

It is a fact that only one person ever claimed to hear him say that, that he waited decades until the man was safely dead and then made his claim in an obscure book.

No-one else has heard him say anything like it and there are many authentic quotes of him contradicting such views.

You are just a liar Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 08:02 AM

The man is a trolling fanatic who calls everybody who disagrees with him a "Arab Hater" and has trawled the internet, taking articles from extremist leftist sites.

Anybody who believes that all he has to do is to deny something to make it untrue is a raving psychopathic nut-case.


Seems like an exact description of one Jim Carroll
Go away - you are an antisemitic trolling pest




Sorry that my posts about the Carroll family in Maryland were removed.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 07:57 AM

I've read logical points which tend to connect the dots. You respond by attacking the poster.

It's pretty clear who the complete obsessives here are, really, it is to laugh.........and I do.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 06:12 AM

Under extreme right-wing pressure in the Knesset, Israel has reversed its reversal of the decision to either imprison or deport African refugees and is now offering money to all refugees to leave the country - ethnic cleansing is now openly official
Israel was founded on refugees - a poster carried by an Israeli in protest against these actions sums up the situation perfectly:
REFUGEES SHOULD NOT DEPORT REFUGEES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 05:24 AM

Incidentally
"You know the truth because we have been through all this many times before."
Anybody who believes that all he has to do is to deny something to make it untrue is a raving psychopathic nut-case
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 05:19 AM

Same as the other thread Keith
Go away - you are an antisemitic trolling pest
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM

Father of Israel admitted way back that "we have stolen their land - if I were an Arab I wouldn't deal wit the Israelis"

There is no evidence that he ever said that.
He says the opposite in all documented quotes.
One man claims it was said to him in private, but you use it every time as if it was true.
You know the truth because we have been through all this many times before.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 03:57 AM

I find the writer Bobad dragged up extremely disturbing, but also extremely educating
He has produced a huge list of Jewish writers and intellectuals who are he claims, guilty of intellectual treason, Jewish anti-Semitism, of being self-hating Jews[3] as suffering from what in his view was a 'pathology' of Jewish anti-israelism or as being 'deranged' (squilibrati) Jew-haters'.
To produce such a list and brand them all (some of them internationally, long respected writers such as Isaac Deuscher, and brand them antisemitic is simply fascism of the worst kind - the equivalent of the Nazi's book burnings
To place the policy of any State or administration above criticism is classic fascism
To allow any group of people to re-define words like "antisemitism" to suit their own policies and objectives is Orwellism of the worst kind - it is a major feature of '1984'
I recently looked up the a definition of antisemitism - it has been altered again from its Euoropean accepted one to suit current Israeli policy - that is an attempt at mind-control - it is what the Cold Warriors were accusing the Soviets of doing.
It now appears to be a reality.
Frightening or what??
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 08:35 PM

While you choose to ignore the violent and aggressive behaviour of successive Israeli regimes towards the Palestinians down the decades, robomatic, in order to get us focus on the justifiable resistance of the virtually-unsupported and downtrodden Palestinians, while you choose to set aside the discrimination, the land-grabs, the blockade of Gaza and the mass murders of innocent civilians, then quite frankly your views are not worth listening to. The icing on the cake is your defence of arch-bigot and virulent hate-monger bobad. You are clearly an articulate man but you have been comprehensively hoodwinked. Shame on you.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 08:11 PM

"What is wrong with bobad's posts?"
I believe I've just answered that Robo
The man is a trolling fanatic who calls everybody who disagrees with him a "Jew Hater" and has trawled the internet, taking articles from extremist rightist sites (including ant-semitic ones like "The White Supremacist" to prove that the Muslim culture is degenerate and has been from pre- Christian times
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 08:05 PM

Why is this man's opinion in the slightest bit interesting Bobad?
He is an extremist right-wing Zionist of the worst kind who believes that every critic of Israel is an antisemite and that Jew who criticise the regime are "self-haters"
As a journalist, he has a reputation as plagiarist who lifts the writing of others wholesale and publishing them as his own
Dredging up anything saying the right thing is meaningless and a sign of desperation
REad and enjoy an assessment of him - read in particular the long list of those he describes as antisemitic = Jews who critcise Israel he describes as being "DERANGED"
A truely fanatical racist madmant
You appear to have excelled yourself in your search to find suppoerters of mass-murder
Jim Carroll

Giulio Meotti is an Italian journalist who writes on Middle Eastern and Jewish issues. He is a strong advocate of Israel, and is critical of both the Catholic Church[1] and of Jews who are themselves critical of Israel, regarding them as abettors of anti-semitism. He was subject to accusations of engaging in plagiarizing the work of other journalists, and since has worked for Il Foglio and Arutz Sheva.
In his book Jews against Israel (2014)[6] Meotti took to task a large number of Jewish critics of Israel's behavior towards Palestinians, accusing them variously of intellectual treason, Jewish anti-Semitism, of being self-hating Jews[3] as suffering from what in his view was a 'pathology' of Jewish anti-israelism or as being 'deranged' (squilibrati) Jew-haters'. The list of notable Jews he censures for their attitudes towards Israel and defense of human rights of Palestinians includes George Steiner, the philosopher Hannah Arendt, the Franco-German politician Daniel Cohn-Bendit,[7] the former Chancellor of Austria Bruno Kreisky, Pulitzerprize-winning playright and screenwriterTony Kushner, director Steven Spielberg, British historian Eric Hobsbawm, the bioethics and moral philosopher Peter Singer, British politician Gerald Kaufman, French journalist Jean Daniel, French essayist Dominique Vidal, the Argentinian civil rights activist Jacobo Timerman, rabbi Arnold Wolf philosopher Edgar Morin, the United Nations special rapporteur for Palestinian rights Richard A. Falk, the American historian Norman Finkelstein, English film, director Mike Leigh, neuroscientist Steven Rose and his wife, the sociologist Hilary Rose, rabbi Michael Lerner, Nobel-prize winning dramatist Harold Pinter, philosopher Judith Butler, the historian Tony Judt, the orientalist scholar Maxime Rodinson, Italian novelist Natalia Ginzburg, the Italian Germanist Cesare Cases, the antifascist intellectual Emilio Sereni, the poet and literary critic Franco Fortini, the Italian journalist Gad Lerner, the Italian Yiddish playwright and musician Moni Ovadia,[7] the Israeli biochemist and philosopher of Judaism Yeshayahu Leibowitz, the Israeli historian Shlomo Sand, the Israeli political geographer Oren Yiftachel, the Israeli political scientist Neve Gordon, the Israeli journalist Amira Hass Israeli historian Moshe Zimmermann, the Israeli historian Ilan Pappé, the Israeli conflict theorist Lev Grinberg, the Israeli historians Tom Segev and Idith Zertal, the Argentinian musician and comic Danny Rabinovitch, the Israeli novelists Amos Oz, David Grossman and Abraham Yehoshua, the cosmopolitan conductor Daniel Barenboim, and the diplomat Martin Indyk, and survivors of the Holocaust such as Warsaw ghetto survivor Marek Edelman, Marion Kozak (the mother of David Miliband and Ed Miliband), the sociologist Zygmunt Bauman, resistance leader Stéphane Hessel, the Israeli political scientist Zeev Sternhell, the French historian Pierre Vidal-Naquet, the writer Primo Levi[7] and the writer Isaac Deutscher.[8]
In mid 2012, Meotti was accused by Marc Tracy in Tablet of being a 'serial plagiarist' for lifting, unacknowledged, material written by other journalists. The accusation was also endorsed by Max Blumenthal who provided several other examples of apparent copyright violations.[16] When this documentation imputing to Meotti a practice of copying other journalists emerged, not only Ynet but also Commentary magazine’s John Podhoretz severed their relationship with him for having engaged in journalistic theft.[17][18] In self-defense, Meotti stated that if he indeed quoted without crediting his sources it was just carelessness, but claimed the accusations were actually a form of demonization of himself, whom he described as one of ’the last and few pro-Israel journalists in Europe,‘ part of an ad hominem campaign infused with envy which had been ongoing for some years.[19] According to Blumenthal Meotti considered the accusations as forms of incitement that put his life at risk. [20]
Meotti is known for having very pro-Israel views and for being very critical about Islam, multiculturalism and political correctness.[21][22] He describes himself as a liberal conservative.[23]

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 07:55 PM

Steve:
What is wrong with bobad's posts? I've read logical points which tend to connect the dots. You respond by attacking the poster.

It is indeed curious when a 'martyr' has pre-planned photos and screeds ready to go in a supposedly peaceful demonstration.

I think it is because the Palestinians execute ALL routes to their goal at once, despite them ostensibly eschewing violence (in this case). It's like trying to play football by attempting to intercept, sneak, and pass all at the same time. The goal is still the goal, but each attempt tries to pass it off differently to the outside world.

How about you suggesting some rational behaviours on the part of the people we are talking about, rather than the people doing the talking?

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 07:47 PM

Bobad is a compete obsessive. I suggest that we all completely ignore his poisonous posts.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 07:32 PM

Powerful words from Giulio Meotti in Arutz Sheva International news:

If the 30.000 Palestinians were allowed to cross those borders, instead of dead terrorists, we would have had dead Israelis. Would the world be more satisfied?


The world goes for Israel's throat

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 04:31 PM

Lol......Hamas is receiving criticism from Palestinian analysts and activists for the mistake of publishing photos of "martyred" terrorists dressed in their terrorist regalia and being given military funerals. It kinda blows their attempt to hoodwink the world about the "peaceful" nature of the protest right out of the water.

As one veteran Palestinian journalist commented: "Hamas has done damage to the Palestinian account that states that the demonstrations were peaceful and nonviolent."

One Palestinian political analyst said that it was wrong for Hamas fighters to approach the security fence because many of them were on Israel’s list of wanted terrorists.

Hamas is also being criticized for hijacking the demonstration and for counting coup with the blood of its "martyrs" and injured.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: bobad
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:30 PM

One example that illustrates how the media is being played by Hamas, as usual, in this deadly game of terrorist theater:

Meet Mohammad Abu Amr, one of those killed in the recent “March of Return” riots. To an international, English-speaking audience, he was a well-known carver of sand.

Mohammad Abu Amr well known carver of sand

To an Arabic-speaking audience, he was an aspiring carver of innocent people.

Martyr al-Qassami/Mohammad Naeem Abu Amr

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 01:51 PM

Why waste time doubting the sincerity of people we are arguing with?

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 01:47 PM

"Yes I do."
But it's you who has blamed the Jewish people for the atrocities of Israel and it's the Israelis who have claimed that tha their actions are being acarried out bon behalf of the Jewish people
You don't for one minute believe me to be antisemitic otherwise you would be claiming my offer of a generous donation to your named charity
It's stood for several years now and none of you have ever at any time attempted to claim it
You don't have to wait for divine judgement (which I dismiss as a fairy -story anyway) - it's on hand waiting for the asking
Not do you believe the shit about the Arab threat to kill all Jews - that is just an excuse to appease Israel's massacres
Israel is a nuclear power with a highly trained and well equipped army compared to what amounts to little more than a society of settled tribesmen - no standing army, no sophisticated equipment -
This is the bullshit all bullies use to excuse their picking on the vulnerable
Any killing that has been done by the Palestinians is a natural response to decades of land and home seizure and greations-worth of persecution and humiliation
This has always been a one-sided fight - the olny reason Israel hasn't ended in the war crimes court has been over one hundred U.S. vetoes
Now - my antisemitism - any claims yet?
No?
Thought not!
Your open support for consorting with facscist organisations makes you a supreme antisemite
Who knows, maybe the FUTURE GENERATIONS will sort it out, but what a shitty job you peole have left them
Jim Carroll


Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 01:09 PM

Yes I do.

But we will both end up at heaven's gate to be judged- and I will arrive with a clear conscience. Can you say the same?

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 12:55 PM

"As compared to the Palestinians who support killing all the Jews? ( See Hamas charter"
So threatening to kill your perscutor is worse than avctually murdering six million Jews
Must write that down
And you call me an antisemite!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 12:19 PM

"As compared to the Palestinians who support killing all the Jews? ( See Hamas charter"
As compared to the Israelis who are actually killing the Jews
The fact that you refuseto what is happening and why it is happening and refuse to iscuss facts like "55% of Isralis support ethnic cleansing" and "African refugees are cancers" explains perfectly why you have no objecton to Israel supporting the groups who sent six million of your people to their deaths puts your position xacrtly where it is
You are an appeaser of fascism and anti-semitism - that's why you are not worth talking to
My family took to the streets in the thirties to stop people like you now there appears to be a fifth column created by the Isreali regime
Finished here
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 12:16 PM

I never said ALL- But I will say more than the "55% of Israeli citizens support ethnic cleansing " Mr Carroll uses to condemn all Israelis.


OK?

The numbers I have seen in past polls were 85-93% against any Jews in Palestinian state. (The Palestinian government is quoted above.)

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 11:59 AM

“We want families. We want to send a message that we want to live in peace — with the Israelis. We’re against stone throwing or even burning tires. We will make sure the protest doesn’t escalate to violence — at least from our end.”

But of course all Palestinians are dedicated to driving out all Jewish Israelis, rather than finding a way to share the country they both see as home. Stand to reason.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 11:55 AM

As compared to the Palestinians who support killing all the Jews? ( See Hamas charter


"[TABLET]: Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?

[AREIKAT]: Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after."


So we DO know who is demanding ethnic cleansing- as they did in 1948-1967 in the territories conquered ( By military force) by the Arab League.

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 11:38 AM

"So, Israel is fighting for the ONLY Jewish state as a home, and the Palestinians are fighting for a "Pure Nation" free of Jews."
Nope - we know who is doing the actual ethnic leansing
Try those links to the Isreali statistics - 55% of Israeli citizens support ethnic cleansing (Jerusalem post) or "African refugees are Cancers" (also Jerusalem Post)
I've always cherished teh "If your not part f teh solution, you are paertt of the problem"
You are the only Jew I have ever come across who has excused the Israelis of supporting antisemitism because "it's the lesser of two evils" - remembering that THIS WAS ONE OF THEM
What could possibly be worse than that?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: G A Z A Demonstrations March-May 2018
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 11:36 AM

-The Palestinians I grew up with had nothing but disgust for the permanent refugees, held by the Arab League in concentration camps to breed suicide troops for the next attack on Israel.


So we each have our opinions. YOU have refused discussion- I have merely presented the side you refuse to acknowledge exists.