Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Mysha
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 10:04 PM

Donuel,

If he's anything like an Asperger, he's playing along, and you won't get him to break the pact unless there's a good reason to. Putting him on the spot about it would not have been such a reason; it would just have been hard to evade.


In reality, it's Sinterklaas who brings the gifts, of course; any Dutch child could tell you that.

Bye
                                                             Mysha

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jun 18 - 09:50 PM

When I'm online arranging for a seat in an airplane's emergency exit row, I'm asked by the program if I am willing and able to function with the window exit. Of course, this does not substitute for the in-your-face question that the cabin attendant will ask me. One wold hope that there is an analogous procedure for justice to be achieved in the various courts, be it peremptory challenge or a decision from the bench.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 12:03 AM

I would hope people place emphasis on common decency rather than their own version of common sense.

I know Phd's who only think they are mechanicly gifted enough to operate an airplane emergency door but are not.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 02:56 AM

I know Phd's who only think they are mechanicly gifted enough to operate an airplane emergency door but are not"

I once worked in a unit where the door was opened by pushing in a steel disk. I watched three PhD's attempt an exit by rotating the disk.
One can draw various conclusions from this.
A PhD is an education to the point of stupidity.
Possession of a doctorate does not necessarily equate with common sense.

Or more logically. People with PhD's encompass a wide spectrum of abilities, just like those diagnosed with Aspergers.

Perhaps we should discuss if those blessed with red hair should be allowed to serve on juries, the viewpoint is equally nonsensical.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:12 AM

Good post Iain and I have my own stories about educated idiots, on the other hand the PhD I knew best taught me to change flat tires as well as engine oil on 1950s era autos, did the plumbing repairs where possible at home, cleaned and dressed ingrown toenails better than the pediatrician and was able to correct my English teacher's poor interpretation of George Bernard Shaw.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM

Robomatic I have worked with highly skilled PhD's and others not so highly skilled. The same experience as anyone will have, in any walk of life.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 18 - 08:53 AM

Stereotypes : A minimum of two different versions of the same thing.
Stereotype : An artificial example of a people, thing or place.

I think a stereotype is a handy concept for the unenlightened, uninformed and unintelligent.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 10:31 AM

some people hear talk as if there were no degrees of aslergers, for example

Of course there are degrees. The person I'm talking about is far over the edge of being able to understand the basics of how normal people interact. He would never be able to figure out what was going on in a con trick, and could well miscall whether consent was given in a rape case or what options were available to a victim of domestic violence.


if he person in question has conversed with you about the trial they are in breach of the equiette surrounding trials (they could even be prosecuted themselves)

All I know is that he's been off on jury service, and the length of time implies the case is major and complicated. I'm not intending to find out any more.


There is another issue that has been underlying part of this discussion - whether people can insist on their right to serve on a jury. I would say that anybody REALLY REALLY KEEN to be on a jury ought to be disqualified - chances are they have an agenda (either hang-'em-high or free-'em-all) and the evidence will be irrelevant to the verdict they want to give. No reason to suppose that autistic people will be any keener than others, though when they are the results might not be pretty. (Of course there isn't actually any mechanism to disqualify them, in Scotland or anywhere else).

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jun 18 - 05:54 PM

"Of course there are degrees. The person I'm talking about is far over the edge of being able to understand the basics of how normal people interact. He would never be able to figure out what was going on in a con trick, and could well miscall whether consent was given in a rape case or what options were available to a victim of domestic violence."
Jack, are you a medical expert? if you are not please stop pontificating you remind me of the bar room know all ,

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: leeneia
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 11:08 AM

Speak for yourself, Sandman. I found Jack's remarks interesting. Jack seems to be the only person here who actually knows someone with Asperger's.

In a courtroom, the most important thing as that the accused get a fair trial. Another important thing is that the trial be valid - not have to be done all over. Having a juror who doesn't get what's going on might lead to that.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 11:12 AM

Jack seems to be the only person here who actually knows someone with Asperger's.

Nope. not true.

Subject: RE: Ethics of Aspies on juries (Asperger's)
From: ripov
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 08:32 PM

Am I the only one who gets a slight sense of incongruity when musicians discuss what "normal" people might do?