BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:51 AM

acme - i don't think we all need to be reading fahrenheit 451. the point is we should all be reading and mesmerising different books. i think i'll choose the complete Father Ted scripts - there are many important life lessons contained therein

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:48 AM

NHS underfunding, failure of Universal Credit, lack of educational opportunities, Boris Johnson's gaffes, have all been far, far bigger stories than issues within the Labour party.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:27 AM

If you want to go to war with a mod take it way from this thread before you get it closed down Keith
Pistols at dawn in Sefton Park is acceptable I think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:19 AM

"That Labor Party stuff" is not fabricated, and for years now it has been the main political story in UK second only to Brexit.
It is wrong to suppress the discussion of it.

(I would have used PM but did not know who I was addressing. Sorry.)

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:11 AM

It's amazing how fast y'all jump on a a troll and completely ignore the original subject, but that's what make Mudcat BS so special...

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:01 AM

or alternatively the roadworks in Slough, IN JUST A MINUTE WITHOUT DEVIASTION ETC

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 10:00 AM

Anarchists are not particularly left wing or right wing or any other kind of wing, they are people who believe that everyone should live under their own authority. In many ways the ultimate free marketeers. As Jim says, people of very different political persuasions could have been offended by Rees Mogg.

Including me, as his ancestors sent my ancestors down their family coal mines at the age of 11.

But it wasn't me, I hasten to add.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 09:54 AM

Nothing to stop you starting a thread about Mogg's home/car, but this is a thread about an attack on a bookshop - otherwise I would need to start talking about the roadworks in South Acton.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 09:33 AM

Time for everyone to read Fahrenheit 451.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 09:14 AM

The media reports describe the attacks as "vandalism" - it is an assumption (possibly accurate) based on an Anarchist symbol sprayed on the family car, that it was "far left"
"Posh scum" seems to be the highest intellectual level the attack reached
Rees Mogg has insisted publicly on displaying his campaign on behalf of the privileged and powerful - he has shown his contempt for homosexuals and those wishing to dwell in the 2ist century regarding birth control and pregnancy rumination.
His anachronistic outlook on life has made him a figure of fun - he has even been paid for doing so by appearing on 'Have I got News For You'
None of this in any way excuses this thuggish attack on his home, but it does point out that "the far left" are not the only enemies this strange, strange man has made
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 08:29 AM

Far Left vandals attacked a Tory MP's home last week.
Are we allowed to discuss that?

---

This is about vandalism in a BOOKSHOP. Keep it to vandalism. ---ready to hire Chongo the chimp to start throwing shit mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM

Removed the Keith/PFR/Jim running argument to leave one lucid remark in place. ---morning cleanup crew mudelves

---

THe vandalising of the bookshop is just another case of the extremist Brexiteers flexing their new-found muscles
It certainly isn't the first and it won't be the last
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 04:42 AM

These thugs terrorized weaker citizens...


Keith - you do know what the word terrorize is very similar too...


You do know I know where you get your pathetic cowardly ideas from...

You are so sad compared to the real far right hate preachers you attempt to emulate.
I at least give them some credit for being honest about who they are and what they want...

You lack the balls for even that...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 04:23 AM

Yes, if the bookstore staff were terrorised, let's hope that the law takes its course, whatever the political leanings of the perpetrators.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 04:17 AM

If they have been identified hopefully the full force of the law will be brought to bear.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 04:15 AM

from the press today it seems that some UKIP members are now being investigated for what sounds like a pretty incoherent and almost comedy attack on 'bookmarks'. that's a relief but still a nasty sign of the times

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:36 AM

You have just accused the Labour Party of being riddled with racists - you are the only one to have ever done so

I never have, but the leader and deputy leader both agree that Labour has a serious problem with anti=Semitism, which is all I have ever said.

Please do not provoke discussion on it though or the thread will be closed. Only right wing racist thugs can be mentioned here.

---

Keith, will you give the antisemitism mantra a break? We all know that Labor party stuff is fabricated, why don't you? Stick to the subject. ---tired of cleaning up after Keith mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:32 AM

If any far left thugs are ransacking Jewish bookshops, then this is just as bad. Please post details Keith. Interestingly, the far right thugs who attacked bookmarks seem to have targeted Jewish books amongst others.

All I can find in a google search for left wing groups attacking Jewish bookshops was a claim in Zeit about a bookshop in Berlin in 2017, but the claim was denied by the bookshop owner.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:14 AM

An elderly man and a young shop assistant mobbed by intimidating masked, chanting thugs throwing books about is tantamount to being attacked
You have just accused the Labour Party of being riddled with racists - you are the only one to have ever done so
Stop defending this scum while pretending you are not - ff you agree with their actions then say so - why not tweet your support for them -
You do this sort of thing far too regularly
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 02:10 AM

Hopefully the people responsible will be arrested

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 12:54 AM

From my training and volunteer work for Victims [of crime] Support back in the 1980s,
I still have an acute awareness of the devastating effects of post traumatic stress on attack victims.
It does not need violence and injuries,
just the intimidation and threat of violent assault can harm victims long term...

Obviously some mudcatters here present couldn't give a fart about the shock and trauma
suffered by meek and mild bookshop workers
at the hands of these far right thugs...

I can predict with 100% certainty that the perpetrators and their followers
will be laughing and wallowing in vindictive sadistic glory..

It won't be too long before they out themselves on youtube...

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 08:47 PM

Arrest them, try them, and sentence them. Wrecking someone else's property is a crime, at least in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 08:20 PM

"Yesterday was the 5th, your links are todays, so just what point are you trying to make?"
My point is that it was so unimportant, even The Daily Mail reported it
I seem to remember you adopted the same support for Tommy Robinson
That's all we need to know about your attitude to fascism as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:32 PM

Google News tends to be yesterday's news; I don't know why, perhaps it's understaffed.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:22 PM

Google doesn't work very well for you then Iains, because the original article in the link at the top of this page is an article on the subject in the Guardian from the 5th.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:14 PM

Yesterday a google news search on the subject turned up a couple of poorly written tweets and a brief article by the Independant.
Yesterday was the 5th, your links are todays, so just what point are you trying to make?

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:03 PM

You guys keep getting sucked into these pointless arguments with Keith and co. The only way to stop their right wing grandstanding is to ignore them. Give them a platform and they will go on about how the left is the root of all evil and Corbyn the devil incarnate while St Theresa and her disciples can do no wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 03:11 PM

That made most of the Nationals
But than again, there are those among us who think poliitical thuggery unimportant if it's carried out by the RIGHT side

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6029591/Mob-thugs-wearing-Make-Britain-Great-caps-trashes-left-wing-bookshop.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jacob-rees-mogg-home-vandals-brexit-trump-socialist-bookshop-a8479596.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/shocking-footage-pro-tommy-robinson-13040136

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/06/socialist-bookshop-support-after-rightwingers-attack-bookmarks

It seems only Murdoch's Times and the Tory Party's Telegraph are the only nationals which didn't bother reporting it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 02:39 PM

I think a few here are hyping it up. Yesterday a google news search on the subject turned up a couple of poorly written tweets and a brief article by the Independant. Even the police did not rush to the scene.
It may have been despicable behaviour, but hardly headline news.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 02:14 PM

Excellent article today from the manager of Bookmarks:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/06/far-right-target-books-alarm-bells-bookmarks-donald-trump

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 02:00 PM

That is not defending them David, and I don't.
I was pointing out that Jim is exaggerating the crime.
Books were thrown. That is despicable, but it is not true to say that anyone was attacked or hurt. They were not.

This appears to be disgusting behaviour by political extremists and racists.
It is right that we can discuss it here, though apparently not comparable racism from other political extremists.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 01:58 PM

he clearly does.

Idiot!

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 01:51 PM

""Are you defending these hooligans Keith?"
I assume that is a rhetorical question David!
Jim Carroll"

It wasn't supposed to be Jim, I was hoping for a straight answer. Actually Keith states pretty clearly that he is not. But then in more or less the next post:

"No-one was attacked. The vandalism was bad enough. No need to hype it up."

he clearly does.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 01:09 PM

"it is too soon to definitively blame the right. There is a difference."

yes.. they could have been disgruntled customers with a dispute over a book token..
or even fed up with waiting for the next Harry Potter...

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:48 AM

"There is a difference."
Wellll !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Rumncoke
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:39 AM

Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

Remember?

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:21 AM

What with your doiing so and Nigel's trying to blame the left - you right wingers really are something else

I didn't try to blame the left. I just pointed out that it is too soon to definitively blame the right. There is a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:16 AM

"I think I have made clear that I deplore them Jim."
Then stop defending them - wasn't their damage and intimidation of the staff enough for you
If you are so pernickety about these issued why did you suggest that Labou had a racism problem - nobody else ever has ?
It seems you want to reserve the right of inventing attacks while at the same time downplaying the seriousness of this one
"No-one was attacked"
What do you call entering a shop and hurling about the shop - "book-browsing"?
Stp defending this scum
What with your doiing so and Nigel's trying to blame the left - you right wingers really are something else
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 11:01 AM

"No-one was attacked"

Keith - so mere shock, trauma, intimidation, being put in fear of imminent violent assault;
and the threat that the gang of thugs will return to do much worse, is ok then...???

just brush it off as harmless hijinks...

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 10:42 AM

"Are you defending these hooligans Keith?"

I think I have made clear that I deplore them Jim.

attacking people like these shows what kind of people do this

No-one was attacked. The vandalism was bad enough. No need to hype it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 09:26 AM

"A press release issued by anti-racism group Stand Up To Racism claimed some of the attackers held placards which read "British Bolshevik Cult", while one wore a mask of US President Donald Trump.
A member of staff told the organisation that books on Islamophobia were "ridiculed and thrown around".
The BBC seems to be happy to carry this information - maybe they'r in cahoots with the lefties!!

"Are you defending these hooligans Keith?"
I assume that is a rhetorical question David!
Jim Carroll

---

A lot of off-topic antisemitism posts were removed. Keith, stick to the topic, don't scuttle it with the same old nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 08:43 AM

I was in this bookshop last time I was in London - it is within walking distance of The British Museum - we had gone to London to see an exhibition there
It was then run by an elderly man assisted by a young woman - attacking people like these shows what kind of people do this
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 08:33 AM

Bookmarks is a socialist bookshop, not really far left. The perpetrators wore "make Britain great again" caps, and one wore a Donald Trump mask. They were not a false flag operation from the left, and they were not the Tufty club. Mind you, Keith and Iains seem to have spotted a squirrel.

Don't try to justify it. Don't introduce irrelevancies. The right owns this.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 07:33 AM

btw - cowards attack bookshops...

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 06:27 AM

There is not a problem with either racism or Jew hating in the Labourt Party and DESTROYING BOOKSHOPS is a well-known right wing activity
Israel has now managed to get criticising Israeli policy "antisemitic - that is what the Labour Party has been accused of and that is what Corbyn is fending off
Nowhere is there a suggestion of a "racist" or real antisemitic problem within the Labour Party - nobody other than mad right-wing fanatics would suggest that
THere is no evidence of violent extremism with the Labour Party - that again is the domain of right-wing nutters like Tommy Robinson
If Keith persists with this, can I suggest that his postings are ignored, or better still, omitted
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 06:00 AM

Books were not burned and no-one was hurt.
Despicable behaviour obviously, but would any of us shed a tear if a Far Right bookshop was attacked. Not me.
Extremists on both sides are nasty people.
The Far Left, even within Labour, include racist anti-Semites. I would not care if someone ransacked their stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:55 AM

At the moment the perpetrators have not been identified.

I suppose you would claim that participants in the 'Rebecca Riots' were all women, and those involved in the 'Boston Tea Party' were indigenous Americans?

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:49 AM

"It could just as easily be the far left trying to stir up trouble."
No it couldn't Nigel - don't be stupid
It's a left-wing bookshop - it is your side of the political divide with the track record of open political violence in Britain and BOOKBURNING is carved into right-wing history
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 05:27 AM

Really says all you need to know about the right. Learning and knowledge are anathema to them.

Jumping to conclusions from very little evidence.
It could just as easily be the far left trying to stir up trouble.

As yet the perpetrators have not been identified.

Subject: RE: BS: Far right hooligans ransack bookshop
From: Iains
Date: 06 Aug 18 - 04:36 AM

"Really says all you need to know about the right. Learning and knowledge are anathema to them."

"Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,communists, socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives and social liberals."

So applying your own reasoning the entire left are anarchists and should likely be locked up, so we can all sleep at night

Perhaps you meant the extreme right. In which case perhaps you should say so. Or is imprecision the preserve of the left?