BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:33 PM

What is it about the cost risk benefit equation do you not understand?
Think about it as trade offs and not 'no level' is safe.

Reasearch is often agenda driven with only a few pure science inquiries that are found in agencies like the NIH.

No one gets out of this murder mystery alive.
Unless you are semi immortal like Steve
who must still avoid trauma.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:39 PM

Gaaah! Why did I write the word 'ideas' twice eh? Blooming senile.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:48 PM

Well this is my bloody thread and you buggers can meander as much as you like. Gerron with it!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:49 PM

The function of man is to live, its the function of mankind to exist or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: BobL
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 05:07 AM

"ideas, reminiscences and ideas"

The ideas give rise to reminiscences which lead to further ideas. Not senile at all Sen, just poetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 05:26 AM

Hahaha Bob, that's very sweet of you.
And now we have Steve's permission (as he says, it's his thread) we can all meander as much as we like. Goody!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 11:40 AM

Failing that, Sen, blame that bloody merf - you wuz distracted! ;-)

I just realised I didn't read your earlier post very thoroughly...

We had a big log fire in our last house, and found that oak took ages to light and was better put on top of other woods already glowing.

Pine and other evergreens have a lot of resin in, which coats the inside of the chimney then ignites and causes a chimney fire.

Fruit woods (apple, cherry etc) spit and crackle, but smell nice.

I too am on a multi-fuel stove for all of my central heating. Oak is very dense, so yes, it does take a while to get going & is not the easiest wood to light a fire with. It does give plenty of heat though. Ditto to your remarks on pine - willow can also be rather spitty on an open fire. I've not noticed the same problem with the occasional apple wood I've had. Birch (silver or regular) is also nice on an open fire. In my neck of the woods in The Fens (W.Norfolk border), the most common woods are willow & poplar. Poplar is one of the lighter hard woods, so it burns a bit quicker than others, but it gives off plenty of heat. I prefer it to willow (doesn't spit, easier to split), but either are quick enough growing that, if you've the space, you can coppice them for a regular firewood supply. I've read that 5 years is the minimum cycle (so you'd need at least 5 trees), but whether either would produce enough wood in 5 years growth to last through the winter, I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 12:56 PM

I've never burnt willow or poplar. But most of the willow trees round our area (Wensum Valley) have been coppiced (like the Whomping Willow in Harry Potter) I think folk used to make baskets from the thin cut-off branches.
An important thing about burning wood is that it must be seasoned for at least a year after cutting. All our neighbours with wood-burners have several woodsheds, already full of sawn logs.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM

Willows would have been coppiced for osiers/withies for use in basket-making etc, yes. I seem to remember reading an article about a farm (Sussex way?) earlier in the week that still does this, although it's harvesting mechanically these days!

As for seasoning wood for burning (as opposed to woodworking), that's variable according to a number of factors. Average temperature obviously plays a part, as will the type of wood. But mostly it's down to ventilation. And under the heading of ventilation comes splitting the wood. If it's left as sawn logs with the bark on, it'll take a lot longer to season. If it's split early, so there's plenty of exposed wood for evaporation to take place from, there's no way it'll take a year. The greater the ratio of surface area to volume, the quicker it'll season, especially if said surface area isn't mostly covered with a water retaining layer i.e. bark! I've somewhere between 1/4 - 1/2 a ton of willow lying around my garden at the mo. I've two trees, both of which took damage in the storm a few weeks ago. Once split it ought to be dry enough to burn by about the start of next year.

One final thing I forgot to include in my earlier reply... In theory, yes you do have a higher risk of a chimney fire with resinous woods. In practice, any increased risk should be insignificant. The two more important factors are, first, is your chimney properly lined? That doesn't reduce the risk of a fire, but it will reduce the risk of serious damage. Most of all, how hot do you burn your fire? When I moved into my current house (nearly 11 years ago!), I had a freshly plastered wall in the second bedroom. The owners lied to me & told me it was water damage. The new neighbour, who had been a charcoal burner, told me truth - he knew what tar smelt like & it was tar damage (they'd ask him to have a look at it). I promptly had the chimney properly lined...

If you burn your fire hotter, the smoke will rise more quickly & cool more slowly, meaning it leaves less deposits before it's outside. The other remedy is Stovax Protector which, as they say, "Attacks tar, creosote and soot in chimneys by converting it into harmless clinker which may be easily brushed away. Helps prevent chimney fires." It's a bit pricey, but I find it effective.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 08:11 AM

All most interesting Raedwulf. We also had our chimney swept frequently to reduce the amount of soot.

However my sister in Scotland didn't do this (she'd had a chimney and fireplace put into her house, but didn't know much about managing wood fires) and one evening her chimney started to roar alarmingly. Flames were coming out the top. She called the fire brigade; they stayed at hand, but said it would burn itself out, which it did fairly quickly, with no damage fortunately.

Our neighbours have several woodsheds, and the most gigantic spiders live in among the logs. They all know I'm terrified of them, but delight in showing me the latest specimen. They love it when I flee screaming from their garden. Pigs!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 09:37 AM

Not pigs. You can eat pigs (the afore-mentioned neighbour has had one of the 3 blasted nuisances slaughtered, there are still 2 to go; I've asked him if he can get any of the blood back...). The swine! Perhaps... ;-)

The only time I've had a chimbley fire was right at the top. I lit the front-room one, not realising that rooks had built a nest (it wasn't capped, it is now). Sparks eventually did their work!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 12:47 PM

Jackdaws just drop sticks down your chimney until some of them stick fast, then they drop more down to build up their nest. A jackdaw-treated chimney can have an awful lot of sticks in it. A cowl with mesh is a must round here. A smoke-tight chimney flue in sound condition doesn't need to be lined. I have one lined with lightweight concrete (insisted on by our ignorant mortgage provider 32 years ago) and one not, both signed off. They've been checked out by a HETAS engineer. They both draw really well. We burn a mix of smokeless fuel (Homefire Ovals) and wood in multifuel stoves. Some of the wood is my own, dried for at least a long summer. The rest is mostly kiln-dried. It costs more but it burns much better than just seasoned. Our chimneys are swept once a year, about now. When you first light a fire it's best to get the flue very hot before shutting down. That way, the flue draws better and you get far less creosote build-up. Those expensive things that you sprinkle on a low fire, supposedly to make your soot come loose, don't work and, if used when the flue is dirty, increase the risk of a blocked flue and/or chimney fires. Save yer money and get your flue hot every time.

Yiu can't just buy a stove and whack it in yourself any more. You must abide by fairly strict building regs which stipulate minimum distances from walls and carpeted floor, and, if your stove is more than 5kw output, there are extra stipulations regarding room ventilation. You're not even allowed to move a stove without aproval by a qualified heating engineer.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 12:49 PM

Last paragraph went before I edited it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:02 PM

All these posts about wood fires makes me nostalgic for our last house with the big stone fireplace. When the logs were glowing and crackling, all our cats (five in those days!) would lie on the woolly rug in a row like sausages in a pan.

We had some lovely old fire irons, poker, tongs, shovel etc. and a huge log basket. Outside the patio doors could be seen fallow deer, the big orange fox, some grey squirrels, and all sorts of birds, including Barney the barn owl. Our garden was massive and beyond it, just open fields.

But carting logs around, cleaning out the ash etc - we don't do that any more. Also, the draught was something shocking. Open fires cause a massive air flow. One's front was hot but one's back was frozen!

We've never had a wood-burner though. That's what all our neighbours have.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:03 PM

As regards last para, Steve, indeed! And I suspect that's why mine is lined - it was done in Feb 2008 (after a rather chilly winter). As far as I recall, it wasn't specifically that I had it lined, it was that I wanted a stove installed & Cliffords' (excellent folk if you're in a generous radius of Wisbech) said "That isn't lined, we'll have to line that", to which I said "fine" because... The bummer was that they could only get a 6" liner down it because of the bend at the bottom - one size too small for a stove with a back boiler! You're right in that A smoke-tight chimney flue in sound condition doesn't need to be lined, but if you don't run a hot flue, deposits can easily soak in (through cement more than brick, I presume). I presume that's what happened to mine ere I bought it. That won't happen with a lined flue.

And you're right - it was jackdaws, rather than rooks. I've no idea why I wrote rooks, I do know the difference! I seem to remember we've also disagreed over Stovax (I don't run a low fire, as you may gather; from my point of view it just makes the sweeping easier), but at least we agree that the hotter the fire the better! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:44 PM

There are stove installers that will lie to you about the need to line flues. One near us said "Sorry, can't touch that, mate, flue's not lined, but we'll do it for you," then quoted us nearly two grand for the privilege of letting them rip us off. The bloke who sweeps our chimneys is also a qualified HETAS engineer and is firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. Ask around a lot!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:49 PM

We had a multi fuel stove put in about 5 years back. Proper installer and he confirmed we did not need a liner. Added advantage is that when lit it beats the front bedroom!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM

Also true, Steve. In my case, I've afore-mentioned reason for thinking it did need lining, I was entirely happy with the way the company conducted themselves & with the work they did (then & since). And I'm fairly sure that they charged me less than they quoted (which was a lot less than a couple of grand).

It is also worth remembering that not every bugger is trying to rip you off! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 03:48 PM

We have a very tall house. And, if you accidentally employ a cowboy, there's a bloody good chance that they'll install the wrong (cheaper) type of metal flue liner. Caveat bleedin' emptor.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 10:38 AM

from another thread in 07...

The horse and mule live 30 years
And nothing know of wines and beers.
The goat and sheep at 20 die
And never taste of Scotch or Rye.

The cow drinks water by the ton
And at 18 is mostly done.
The dog at 15 cashes in
Without the aid of rum and gin.

The cat in milk and water soaks
And then in 12 short years it croaks.
The modest, sober, bone-dry hen
Lays eggs for nogs then dies at ten.

All animals are strictly dry:
They sinless live and swiftly die;
But sinful, ginful, rum-soaked men
Survive for threescore years and ten.

And some of them, a very few,
Stay pickled til they're 92.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 10:34 PM

Bill D... lovely!