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BS: ancient globalization collapse

Donuel 08 Sep 18 - 10:17 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Sep 18 - 03:12 PM
Donuel 08 Sep 18 - 04:34 PM
robomatic 08 Sep 18 - 07:52 PM
Iains 09 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM
Donuel 09 Sep 18 - 08:36 AM
Little Hawk 09 Sep 18 - 09:02 AM
Donuel 11 Sep 18 - 10:13 AM
Donuel 11 Sep 18 - 11:20 AM
robomatic 11 Sep 18 - 12:17 PM
Iains 11 Sep 18 - 01:53 PM
Iains 11 Sep 18 - 02:04 PM
Reinhard 11 Sep 18 - 05:01 PM
Donuel 11 Sep 18 - 05:18 PM
Stanron 11 Sep 18 - 05:28 PM
Donuel 11 Sep 18 - 05:55 PM
Donuel 11 Sep 18 - 06:00 PM
robomatic 11 Sep 18 - 08:01 PM
Iains 12 Sep 18 - 03:43 AM
Donuel 12 Sep 18 - 02:14 PM

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Subject: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 10:17 AM

Archeology fans may find this old hat or be delighted.
Here is a video lecture from here in town...
1177 BC global collapse (long version)

Other topics I find fascinating is the electrical grid of the ancient world and in certain ways how we are still in the semi dark ages, except we are digital in which someday will be harder to find and translate than hieroglyphs.


This is the typical web drivel that is nonetheless 10% true.(quick and dirty)


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 03:12 PM

Electrical grid?


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:34 PM

In its heyday Mudcat had real 'dig in the dirt' archeologists.
There is room for argument but ~4 millenium ago Egypt had already harnessed direct current but except for light and electro plating with gold its utilitarian use is unclear to me. The power plant was an ingenius use of granite under great pressure to produce piezo electric current in the great pyramid complete with capaciters and obilisks as receivers. In other words they had a Tesla like system of broadcasting electricity.
Another 2000 years passed before the Baghdad batteries were in use.
The first lecture is about why there was a civilization collapse around 1200BC/ The Egyptian power grid is just a curiosity of mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 07:52 PM

After having dug to a depth of 1,000 meters last year, French scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 1,000 years and came to the conclusion that their ancestors had a telephone network all those centuries ago.

Not to be outdone by the French, English scientists dug to a depth of 2,000 meters and shortly after headlines in the U.K. newspapers read: "English archeologists have found traces of 2,000-year-old fiber-optic cable and have concluded that their ancestors had an advanced high-tech digital communications network a thousand years earlier than the French."

One week later, Israeli newspapers reported the following: "After digging as deep as 5,000 meters in a Jerusalem marketplace, scientists had found absolutely nothing. They, therefore, concluded that 5,000 years ago Jews were already using wireless technology."

Still waiting on the Chinese. . .


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM

It is difficult to be sure where to draw the line between fact and fiction when it comes to archeology. On the one hand conventional archeology repeatedly denied the findings of Prof Thom and his determination of the meagalithic yard, on the other there is a school of thought that the Sphinx is older than is accepted. The quantum leaps in analytical techniques is having an impact on both our understanding and chronology of certain events and there are maverick authors out on the left field. Until recently archeologists tended not to do science, to their cost. To me it seems we have more knowledge of paleoclimate than of our own past. Recurrent mythologies suggest we still have much to learn and I keep a totally open mind. ROVs and diving is opening up underwater ruins that have yet to enter the mainstream and authors such as Graham Hancock constantly throw out challenges that have yet to be answered.
   I suspect peer pressure and funding has a very adverse impact.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:36 AM

I wrote : This is the typical web drivel...

I then forgot to include the link to a different sensationalist story about ancient Egypt.

Unproven speculations aside there is no doubt the great pyramid was a multi purpose public utility building and Not a tomb.

archeology jokes are great because they make fun of politics and religions.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:02 AM

For a really interesting read that does raise many worthwhile questions about ancient civilizations, backed up by a good deal of archaeological evidence, try Graham Hancock's books.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 10:13 AM

Ill try.

The point was that the reasons for an ancient globalization collapse is the same as a collapse today.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 11:20 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILp3Ph96U14
Graham Hancock

Yes he is ahead of his time along with his wife.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 12:17 PM

WWI was a globalization 'collapse' we are commemorating at the century mark on a daily basis.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 01:53 PM

Donuel, a website you may find interesting, especially the links at the base   of the page.


http://www.morien-institute.org/

Also make a search of Cambridge Conference COLLAPSE OF EARLY BRONZE AGE CIVILISATIONS
A series of articles linking societal collapse to impact events.
Very thought provoking.

If it is a geological axiom that the present is the key to the past, then conversely the past may be a key to a potential present/future.

i.e. there is nothing new under the sun!


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 02:04 PM

Hamlet's Mill by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechendis makes for a fascinating read. Linking numbers, legend, archeology and the zodiac

A commentary below:(365 pages)

http://www.incapabledesetaire.com/edito3/hamlet.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Reinhard
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:01 PM

I do like Jared Diamond's book "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive" (Penguin 2006).

He doesn't need inane hypotheses like ancient electric grids or multi-purpose pyramids to explain how societies grow and blossom for a long time until they overextend their ressources and crash down.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:18 PM

Well neither do I. Those topics are not connected.
Hi Rienhard we've not met


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:28 PM

I took the thrust of the argument in Don's link to be that the early civilisation collapse was a result of climate change rather than an overextension of resources. Admittedly I did doze off occasionally.

Also I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the late bronze age climate change was due to human overexploitation of non renewable resources.

Again, also, it is known that what is now desert Sahara was, at some time in the past, fertile and habitable. I don't know, and I don't know if anybody knows, if the climate change at the end of the bronze age is the same climate change that rendered the Sahara a desert.

I am aware that the joining of North and South America affected what is now the Gulf stream and that change would have had considerable climate change consequences. But that might be in a completely different time period.

So now we have three, or is it four, periods of climate change. Not counting Ice ages of course. Still, lets blame it all on the car.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:55 PM

in short

12,000 years ago a big asteroid hit N.A. and the Mastodon froze.
1,200 years ago there were 5 different catacysyms respondsible for a bronze age collapse.


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 06:00 PM

robo A WW1 collapse in what way?


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 08:01 PM

Oh, 30 to 60 million lives, a lost generation, Soviet Communism and Italian Fascism, German Nazism, economic depression, stuff like that. . .


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:43 AM

Impacts do not always have a downside. Another school of thought below:

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/3-540-27548-7_20


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Subject: RE: BS: ancient globalization collapse
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:14 PM

Here are extinction level events https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-timeline-of-the-mass-extinction-events-on-earth.html

Some are comet events and some are eruptions and some are unusual as if a different cosmic event hit Earth.

Recent civilization histories in my life has gone from 10,000 to 32,000 years old and is looking to go back more. A collapse of civilizations is a valuable study for us to know. The 12,000 year old comet collision caused the giant mammals to freeze solid in mid chew. Great floods, earthquakes and eruptions have human witnesses. Smaller space collisions that hit in the ocean is blamed for the warm up of the Earth just 1,200 years ago from a green house reaction.


With enough Elon Musk's and resources in our future it is reasonable to think the Earth created us to blow this pop stand.


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