Playing the guitar

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:19 PM

Ake - my advice... don't get too strung up on the 'mechanics' of guitar playing technique...

My advice would be rather the opposite.

More importantly, keep your thoughts full of music, live with a musical soundtrack constantly in your head.

My advice would NOT be very opposite! ;-)

On the subject of classical technique... Classical music is not the be all & and end all, nor is good technique. But, to be brief ("Oh yes I can!"), there are many fine players of whatever instrument with poor technique. But better or good technique will always allow you to get closer to reaching your full potential. Again, whatever the skill. Poor technique inhibits what you can do, better technique gives you more freedom. If my memory serves, there was a chap here, a decade or so ago, who had questions about playing & singing guitar at the same time. My first question was about his posture. If you're hunched over your guitar, you're surely restricting your ribcage, and you'll either be singing into the floor, or cricking your neck back to look at / engage with your audience. All will affect your ability to sing.

And here's another more extreme one. One of my handful of teachers (yes I was willing to go & pay for lessons to improve) told me a story of a student (not sure if it was one of his) who kept passing out. It was eventually worked out that when she was concentrating hard, she held her breath... Yes, to THAT extent!

Utterly unaware of it, she'd keel over. Once she knew about it... I'm blessed by way of being VERY self-aware. I know where my arms & legs & fingers are (this is not so daft as it sounds - have a think about it next time you're playing); I know where I'm tense & where I'm not; I can watch someone else doing something & I will automatically attempt to copy them (don't ask me about the Tai Chi classes I briefly attended in my youth! :o ).

If you have the knack of self-awareness & of visual learning, it's a wonderful adjunct to any physical skill (total rubbish when it comes to cerebral skills; can't paint, draw, blah...). It's not that you should get strung up on the 'mechanics', as pfr puts it. But better technique absolutely DOES allow you more freedom to develop.

And, as I've already said, always have fun. Always allow yourself to giggle, or at least roll your eyes, at your latest cock-up. Reduces frustration levels no-end!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:04 PM

Imteresingly, Mark Knopfler - who served part of his music apprenticeship in UK folk clubs- draws upon the pattern playing approach now and again.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:00 PM

... and... errrmmmm... define 'rock guitarists'...

There's arguably more different styles and genre's than even 'folk' at mudcat...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 12:54 PM

"Interestingly, rock guitarists and the like tend to belittle this style of playing, possibly because it relies on much use of the beginners’ cowboy chords, but ask them to actually play a recognisable tune, as opposed to a riff, and they often don’t know where to start."

GUEST,Jerry - why does it yet again have to be a black & white opposition of 'us v them'...???

Me and my mate started off more than 45 years ago teaching ourselves guitar
by learning "Hank Marvin & the Shadows" tunes off old LPs...

That's how we worked out for ourselves that he was better at lead, and I was the better rythm guitarist..

..and how we fell into those well established roles in our school 'proto punk bands',
and later work together playing electro synth new wave, rock n roll, and punky folkie skiffle...


Also, there's no need to be absolutist about enjoying music...
Cowboy chords can have immense dramatic power in rock...

Look at successful pro session guitar players,
even the average ones can cope well with most styles of playing...

Why do folks need to make a conflict out of everything...???

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 12:33 PM

It probably should also be pointed out that it is a lot easier to combine chords with melody lines when you transcribe the song to a key where the chords are more amenable to that style of picking. In particular, the keys of G, C, D and A, plus Em, Am, Dm, then E and Bm when you get more proficient, are the easiest to find the melody notes with since the first inversion chords tend to have open strings in them, which themselves make up some of the melody notes you need.

It’s not that difficult to adapt to playing songs in 3/4 time, but yes 4/4 songs are best suited to that style. However, some melodies just fit their chord sequences better than others, eg Streets of London compared to (struggling here) say Leaving on a Jet Plane, but you shouldn’t be afraid to try substitute chords or partial ones as mentioned above. Interestingly, rock guitarists and the like tend to belittle this style of playing, possibly because it relies on much use of the beginners’ cowboy chords, but ask them to actually play a recognisable tune, as opposed to a riff, and they often don’t know where to start.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 12:04 PM

I share your nightmare! One of the problems with YouTube instructional vidoes is that - as we know - one size doesn't fit all. Which is why I've, over the years, tried to present different aspects of the same theme. Some go well, others not so well.

The oddest comment I ever got was from an American who said he couldn't understand my English accent! Well really... :-)

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM

Will, I once did some night school guitar classes back in the 1980s and the first night was a nightmare with 25 or so out of tune guitars ( and this was in the days before electronic tuners!).
I agree that, when it comes to any teaching, one size doesn't fit all; indeed, when I trained to be a primary school teacher that " one size doesn't fit all" message was almost like a sort of mantra.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 11:30 AM

I understand - I was really trying to make the point that there might be alternative ways to approach the guitar other than patterns. Nothing wrong with patterns, by the way - just that, if you start with them, then it's sometimes difficult to progress to fitting in a melody. :-)

I've dealt with both sides of that coin with separate instructional videos on fitting chords to melodies and learning basic patterns!

One thing I soon found out when teaching is that, as far as learning/teaching is concerned, one size doesn't fit all - people can learn in very different ways, and it's up to the teacher to find the right way. That's why I always preferred 1-2-1 teaching, rather than group teaching.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 09:12 AM

Will, that is very nice rendition, but I would say that pattern playing - as I understand the style - only works in 4/4 time because in that time signature players can add stresses - mainly on the off beat - to certain notes which gives the style its characteristic lilt.
BTW, Bert Jansch was the master of this style and just a listen to "The Needle of Death" will demonstrate Bert's beautiful use of unexpected chords (e.g. in the key of A, the way he uses a E added 2nd chord).

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 09:10 AM

At the risk of going on and on about the stuff in my previous post, here's a graphic lesson in fitting melody to chords, which I posted on YouTube in 2011. It uses chord diagrams to demonstrate fingering:

How to Play St. James Informary Blues

Once again, just a demo of the technique, with music available here.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 08:22 AM

One of the ways I approach playing a tune on the solo guitar is to start by establishing the chord sequence and getting that fixed in my head. Then I work out where the melody line goes on the fretboard, which is followed by playing chords or variations on chords from the sequence which underpin the melody.

Mostly I do this by ear, but sometimes I'll go back to the sheet music, if it exists - just to make sure my memory isn't at fault. (I have a sheet music archive of about 5,000 songs/tunes covering from roughly the 1880s to the late 1950s).

Having got the melody and worked out the appropriate chords or part chords, I then put the two together. This is the key process and can be very complex or very simple, depending on the tune and the approach to playing the tune. One key point I've learned over the years that complex tunes don't necessarily need full, 6-string, complex chords. Sometimes, just a pair of strings, or a moving bass string can provide enough substance to accompany the tune without running your fingers ragged!

The crucial bit - if you want to play in this style, of course - to get your fingers moving up and down freely on the fretboard, is to get to know simple inversions of basic chords. Here's an example from my YouTube videos - and I've included it, not because I recommend playing it, but because it demonstrates how a reasonably chord sequence and melody line can mesh together without too much strain:

Will FLy: The Tennessee Waltz

If anyone should want to try it, there's a free file for it here - music, tab, chords.

All this can work for traditional tunes as well as more popular stuff.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,PFR on his mobile in the bathroom
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:32 AM

Tunesmith - a healthy combination of both our approaches is an obvious advantage..

I long ago got fed up with pub blues jams
Where blokes with loadsamoney
posed vainly with brand new top end American guitars
playing endless stiff patterns of the 5 blues licks they had learned off a tutorial dvd...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmth
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:32 AM

As stated, what I have shown is the BASIC style used for accompaniments.
Take the"Street of London". What I have shown could be used to accompany the song ( with appropriate chords and string choice), but to play the melody extra notes - and the use of hammering on - would have to added.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:26 AM

Surely pattern picking is more accompaniment than melody playing. To inject the melody you have to introduce pinching, playing two strings at once, with thumb and finger, since the melody notes normally occur on the beat and in pattern picking the fingers are filling in in between the beats. However, I agree it is a great foundation or springboard for then going on to playing melody, as long as you can regularly break away from the repetitive pattern with the fingers, not thumb, to follow the contours of the tune. Patience is needed though because that can’t be mastered overnight.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM

Well, look at learning to play " pattern playing" as a problem solving exercise. Faced with that scenario, I would break down the problem in to its component parts...which is exactly the approach I am suggesting.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:06 AM

To back up what I mean...

20 years ago I trained slavishly in a gym owned by a champion body builder,
afte a few weeks he took me to one side and tried to explain why I was getting nowhere and wasting time and energy.

He told me to just relax, visualise the target I wanted to achieve, and 'feel' each exercise...
I thought he was talking bollox he must have picked up from an airhead Californian muscle magazine...
Until, a short time later, it just clicked, and I realised the genuine value of his advice...

He was afer all a champion,
and I was just an ordinary bloke trying to get a beer belly and office worker's arse back in shape...

Under his mentoring I ended up with a body almost like a middle weight boxer when I was 40...

His approach to being in the right mindset did the trick...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:03 AM

Well, the basics of "Pattern playing " are best - I would suggest- learned by rote BUT also, and very importantly, listening to good examples of the style is essential for getting a solid feel for the style.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:52 AM

Ake - my advice... don't get too strung up on the 'mechanics' of guitar playing technique...
More importantly, keep your thoughts full of music, live with a musical soundtrack constantly in your head...

Obviously health and safety dictates you should stay a bit more focused on the immediate job when high up on a roof...

But otherwise keep your thoughts musical..

Then when you pick up a guitar you are primed and inspired for naturally feeling what you want to play...
you can just get into it and enjoy having a go - mistakes and all...

Frustration at not hitting tehnique targets can eventually lead to a kind of mental paralysis that stops folk
wanting to pick up a guitar ever again...

This is no new age Jedi feel the force bollox.. it does help...

For the last few days my head has been full of reggae bass lines,
which actually influences my present demeanour, even how I walk arond the house...
Last night I had a really good enjoyable half hour random work out on an unplugged semi-acoustic guitar..

Btw.. too many unmusical people think they can learn an instrument just by copying technique by rote...

They are usually dull to listen to, and a bore to play with...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:52 AM

"And I still reiterate and wholeheartedly agree with Big Al when he says

"i think its just nice meeting other guitar players. i certainly owe my love of the instrument to the joy of meeting other people , watching what they do: saying how did you do that: i'd love to play that song - will you show me?; and just the fun of it all."

I played with someone much better than me and we would noodle round on tunes and songs. And he would say 'do you know this one?' and launch into things. And I would join in and play things. Sometimes he'd stop and say 'what did you there when I was doing x?' and that is for me what a lot of the fun is."

I'm in absolute, 100% Agreement with Al and Nick - I've been playing since I was 14, I'm 71 now, and I've always played frequently with others - even now I still play in a four-piece band and I'm always learning, exactly as Nick describes, from the other members. Absolutely the way for an aspiring guitarist to improve, and far quicker than trying to figure stuff out yourself (although that too has its own rewards).

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:49 AM

Well, it didn't line up and the note on the "and" of three should be on the second string. Hope anyone interested can sort it out.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Nick
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:39 AM

And I still reiterate and wholeheartedly agree with Big Al when he says

"i think its just nice meeting other guitar players. i certainly owe my love of the instrument to the joy of meeting other people , watching what they do: saying how did you do that: i'd love to play that song - will you show me?; and just the fun of it all."

I played with someone much better than me and we would noodle round on tunes and songs. And he would say 'do you know this one?' and launch into things. And I would join in and play things. Sometimes he'd stop and say 'what did you there when I was doing x?' and that is for me what a lot of the fun is.

Reminded that we once played 4 different versions of the Star of the County Down as we were playing and had different ideas (standard version/upbeat version/one with different chord structure/classical tinged version). Happy times.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:38 AM

The “pattern playing” guitar style - which has been mentioned in this thread -( we used to call it clawhammer back in the 1960s) is a useful and attractive style for playing accompaniments and melodies.

This is the style that is/was used on “Streets of London” , “ Dylan’s “ Don’t Think Twice” and even a young Martin Carthy used it on “Lord Franklin”.

This is not really a pure beginners style and I would suggest that players should be able to move smoothly between basic chords before tackling this style.

Now, I would start learning this style by isolating the picking hand.
Now I refer to this style as the “rocking thumb style” because the picking hand thumb alternates between different lower ( bass ) strings.
I would describe the basic rhythm of this style as One Two and Three and Four where 1,2,3,4, fall on the beat. Of course, when players becomes proficient at the style they can then throw in what they like.

I start teaching this style by isolating the steady “ rocking” thumb movement.

1   ---------------------------------------------
2   ---------------------------------------------
3   ---------------------------------------------
4   ---------------0-------------------0-------
5   ---------------------------------------------
6   ------0-----------------0------------------
count    1       2         3          4


Then I would introduce/add the index finger to the third string on the “and” of two.

1 -------------------------------------------------------
2 ------------------------------------------------------
3 ------------------------0-------------------------------
4   ----------------0-----------------------------0-----------
5 ---------------------------------------------------------
6   ------0---------------------------0----------------------
Count    1         2    and         3          4


Finally, I would add the second string on the and after three. ( using - in my case - my second finger picking hand

1 -----------------------------------------------------------------
2 -----------------------------------------------------------------
3 -----------------------0---------------0--------------------------
4 ---------------0---------------------------------0----------------
5 ---------------------------------------------------------------
6   ----0-------------------------0------------------------------------
Count   1       2       and      3       and       4

.
Tapping your foot on the beat ( i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4), and saying the
rhythm of the notes as you are playing should help.
I would strongly recommend that players make
sure that they are rock solid at each stage before moving on.

I hope all the tab lines up!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Nick
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:31 AM

"I only want to improve a little,"

This may be too obvious but playing a guitar like anything is an enormously vast thing.

1 Decide what an achievable goal is that would demonstrate your small improvement
2 If you have a digital camera or a recording device record your first effort(s)
3 Work out what it is that you need to achieve your goal. I'm sure if you posted on here "I'm really struggling to work out how to do X' people would help and offer advice (I'm currently doing a similar thing in a new area of photography that I'm struggling to achieve what I want and people are enormously helpful)
4 Practice the bits that are hard rather than the bits that you already know and do well and play them S-L-O-W-L-Y until they are easier and your fingers remember them
5 At some point when you judge you are getting there (if you are really focused you might have put a time limit on it - eg someone asked me yesterday to play a song for them in a weekly session I go to. So I will learn it and play it next Monday and that's good for me to do something measurable and achievable. And I learn a new song) then repeat point #2 above and compare
6 Pat yourself on the back and smile
7 Move onto next project

I record a lot of what I do by myself and with others. Not for others but for me/us to have a benchmark rather than a perceived memory that may not quite reflect reality.

As an aside I once recorded a gig in a rock/covers band I played in. The singer knew that I did and was sure that her performance was brilliant and asked if I could send a copy. It wasn't - she was out of tune most of the night. Difficult decision... So it was the one time that my recorder malfunctioned. I don't mind being critical of me but I reckoned it would not have helped in the particular instance (rightly or wrongly)

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 05:44 AM

Sandman - and.. you make yourself look a bit of a nit going off on one on your high horse,
when you didn't even read properly in context
my innocuous casual comment which you have taken exception to...

baffling...???

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 04:18 AM

Sandman - sort yourself out, why are you in such a negative bossy mood...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:38 AM

fine, enjoy yourself

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 05:25 PM

Sandman - strum...??? where'd ya get that from...???

I play with a plectrum, mostly single or double note palm muted riffs...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 05:08 PM

playing freight train is melody picking with fingers thumb uses basses basse, its easiest i find in c, yes i know libba cooten played upside down most people find it easiest to use conventionalpicking with index and middle playing melody
.the other way of picking with thumb is also easy in c and g ,
in c the melody falls through the chords, start with c 5 string3 fret then d open4 string, then e 4 string 2nd fret, then little finger let hand on 4 string 4 fret, then open3 string,then 3 string2nd fret then open 2 string,then 2 string first fretthen 2 string3rd fret little finger of left hand then open 1 string then first stringfirst fret then first string 3rd fret you have played an octave and a half of c majorscale cdefgabc defg.dovan talks about this style on you tube it isbased on the playing of maybelle carter, if you dont use a finger pick it is necessary to use hammering on and pulling off to get some half notes.
pfr, feel free to strum but AKE mentioned picking melody. playing in g is same pattern as c but one string lower

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: voyager
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:48 PM

1st recollection of guitar instruction at the age of 16 - a room full of 100 people at UCLA (LA, CA) playing Libba Cotton's Freight Train. 50 years later, the train is still moving (own 4 guitars and play nightly).

Stories and Songs
voyager

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:42 PM

I think its different strokes for different folks.
Some people have a good ear for melody, and find the individual notes easily - some (like me) dont.

Some people (like me) are complete tarts and just love getting the room singing - for that you need the persistence to learn a couple of (or even three) chords. And the resolve to sit through episodes of Inspector Morse, with your fingers holding down the G chord, the D7 and if you're really serious the C chord as well.

Also ( a guilty secret) even on your own - you can fantasise a roomful of singers, or fiddlers and concertina players if you learn tunes in your head.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM

Please don't fall out, this has been a great thread and I appreciate all your comments. I've printed out the thread and can follow the instructions from Sandman and others when time permits.
I only want to improve a little, no one will ever hear me except son no 4 who lives with me at present.
Since my wife's recent death I find making a little music a real comfort......Thank you all once again...Ake

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:54 PM

Sanmdman - sorry sir.. I was out of line sir... how high do you want me to jump sir...!!!???

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:49 PM

Big Al, what would be easier- for a beginner, learning to play the melody of " God Save The Queen"" one note at a time ( possibly only using one finger. and one thumb)) or learning to strum the chords to the same song?

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:33 PM

whatever grabs your interest is easiest.

when you're bored, its hard.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:22 PM

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:08 PM

I'd guess most kids first learn simple blues/rock guitar riffs these days..."
Sorry, what has kids got to do with this, ake is asking for some help regarding plying melody or scottish pipe tunes not blues or rock guitar,

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:08 PM

I'd guess most kids first learn simple blues/rock guitar riffs these days...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 02:10 PM

Interestingly, I would say that it's easier to get into learning classical guitar - in the early stages, than folk guitar.
Why? Well, most folk guitar players will begin by learning chords which involves moving a number of fretting hand fingers simultaneously whereas beginning students on classical guitar tend to start by playing simple melodies one note at a time.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 12:37 PM

a chromatic tuner should sort out tuning.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 10:50 AM

Again Ake. I think, while maybe it could be taught, some things may lie in the range of what we hear? I can for example give some form of "Freight Train" and can for example make Leaving of Liverpool, Hard Times and maybe I've got a lovely bunch of cocounts, I've Got Sixpence, Tenessee Waltz, The Owl and the Pussy Cat, etc, whereby, while not well done, one would hear the tune in some form(s) of melody chord finger way and can (at least if we stay down the bottom), often make other things semi recogisable. You know where the melody is to get the say thumb to oblige is not that difficult.

Having seen a demo on Youtube, Status Quo and the Caroline is not that hard - an aim to play a reel like Trip To Durrow on Guitar melody line would be far harder but some attempts at folk are more natural to me than say rock and so we could go on...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 10:22 AM

Thanks Sandman that is fascinating, really interesting and I will try to put you advice into practice, but I am such an idiot regarding proper music that I fear most of the tuning stuff will be over my head. But I'm going to have a go and see what it sounds like...you are a first class guy. Ake.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 02:33 AM

so the above tunings are g major tunings and g modal should be ideal for scots pipe tunes which are often mixolydian which is g major with flateened 7 example gabcde f natural g
or g dorian ga bflat c d e f natural g flat 3 and flat 7 you should be able to ick tunes and use 1 string as drone , the idea is to get away from chords to some extent and use drone, similiar to scots pipes

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 02:20 AM

ake, a lot of would be guitarists are never told it is not necessary to play all six strings at once.have you tried tuning 1 string high e down to d , you then have four strings of banjo ,dgbd
the next move is to tune high b up to c easier if you have medium light or light strings this gives you banjo sawmil tuning, you arethen good tuning for american tunes and modal tunes ,my approach next would be to play ther tune on 432 strings and use 1 string as a drone , this means you have to go up higher on 2 string for the melody,[ i am going to make a wee over simplification] this is the basis of roscoe holcomb banjo style thumb melody[ not to be confused with thumb melody bluegrass, which useses rolls to fill out harmony sound]

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 07:49 PM

Duck Baker's stuff is lovely. I could never do anything like it! Ever!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 07:15 PM

Karen, I met and chatted to Duck Baker back in 1969 when he guested at our folk club....a lovely guy and I still have his LP record of jigs and reels, He got me interest in finger picking pipe tunes.

Thanks for the ideas Al.

Raedwulf...you're a real tight-arse......hyphenated...the worst kind.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 06:28 PM

i think its just nice meeting other guitar players. i certainly owe my love of the instrument to the joy of meeting other people , watching what they do: saying how did you do that: i'd love to play that song - will you show me?; and just the fun of it all.

leaving it, and not playing doesn't work for me - but sometimes giving an individual project a break and playing something else - then coming back refreshed works.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: KarenH
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:19 PM

Tablature, which might be worth a try. It takes a while to get the hang of it, but it is useful. It might be worth seeing if the library will get you something by, say Stephan Grossman: there is a book of 'Celtic' guitar by Grossman and John Renbourne which might appeal. Also one by Duck Baker of Irish jigs for fingerpicking guitar style. Just a thought. If got via the library you don't have to lay out lots of money to see if it suits.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 03:12 PM

So, you expect to get away with paying me one bob instead of two??!! :O

You do it justice by playing it & by enjoying your playing & by enjoying it. It doesn't matter whether you're Julian Bream or Frank Fumblefingers. That's also worth remembering... ;-)

As I suggested above, if you find you're getting frustrated with summat, just leave it alone for a bit & practice something else instead. Come back to it later & you never know... And never be loathe to chuckle at yer cock-ups. Good humour is not a bad teacher!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:15 PM

Raedwulf... would you consider a 50% discount for cash? :0)

Seriously thanks to all you lovely people for taking the time to help an oldie folkie.
I do practise almost every night but I missed a lot of time since buying my precious guitar for a tenner
It's a sixties Suzuki Nagoya RM classical, light as a feather and beautiful base tone. Wish I could do it justice.
When I pick it up, the fact that I can play a few recognisable tunes fills me with wonder

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM

My experience (& I used to be good enough that I tried making a living teaching it, and I mean teaching it properly, not random self self-taught bloke passing on a load of bad habits to make a few quid...) is this...

I have, let me see... Two electrics, one classical; 3 lutes, one of them custom made (I was a re-enactor once...), two basses, a 23 string clarsach (wrong, wrong, wrong! It should have had fewer strings & they ought to have been gut...), a BIG rope tensioned side drum, a djembe, a wooden recorder (re-enactor, remember). Oh, and a set of (ancient now) Yamaha keyboards. I think that's everything...

In my experience, not just of musical instruments, the two real sticking points in learning any skill are the first 10% and the last 10%. Going from "I can't do anything" to "I can do something" can be incredibly frustrating. It's very easy to give up (I never have learnt to play that damn harp). The last 10% equally, it takes so much effort & dedication to go from pretty good to mastery...

The 80% in between? With a reasonable amount of dedication & effort, you can progress, but yes, Ake, there are plateaus. There are times when you feel you're not making any progress at all. What I've often found is that if you leave it alone & come back later, suddenly something has clicked, bedded in in the sub-conscious, whatever it might be, and suddenly... Off the plateau & rising again. Speaking from a purely musical p-o-v, since that seems most appropriate, that lick you can't quite get up to speed, that chord change you always seem to fumble... Relax, leave it alone, practise other stuff, enjoy your playing. Two weeks (or whatever) later, think "Oooo, let's have another go at..." And suddenly it's there, and you feel so much more positive. Suddenly it's "I'm so much better than I used to be" instead of "I'm not getting anywhere". Etcetera...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:14 AM

Pardon the thread creep, but I think there is too much reliance on internet and the like these days, where self styled experts show you where to put your fingers, rather than you having to work out for yourself where the notes are on the fretboard and what note combinations are needed to form particular chords. My favourite cringe was a YouTube video where the ‘expert’ confessed to not knowing the note of the open botttom string, but constantly referred to it as ‘this fat string here’. Whether such people should be allowed to teach others is a matter for another thread no doubt, but there is a lot to be said for the approach of classical musicians. Having mastered the basics on your chosen instrument, then take time out to learn another instrument(properly that is, not in a guitar like chord style), then return to your first instrument, which you should find much easier to play and navigate. Previous’ generations of course learnt their way around the fretboard, how to play scales, etc, before learning about chords and harmonic progressions, now we teach all that in reverse, so it’s no wonder we reach plateaux. Plenty to argue with there, I’m sure.....