Playing the guitar

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:33 PM

whatever grabs your interest is easiest.

when you're bored, its hard.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:49 PM

Big Al, what would be easier- for a beginner, learning to play the melody of " God Save The Queen"" one note at a time ( possibly only using one finger. and one thumb)) or learning to strum the chords to the same song?

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 03:54 PM

Sanmdman - sorry sir.. I was out of line sir... how high do you want me to jump sir...!!!???

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM

Please don't fall out, this has been a great thread and I appreciate all your comments. I've printed out the thread and can follow the instructions from Sandman and others when time permits.
I only want to improve a little, no one will ever hear me except son no 4 who lives with me at present.
Since my wife's recent death I find making a little music a real comfort......Thank you all once again...Ake

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:42 PM

I think its different strokes for different folks.
Some people have a good ear for melody, and find the individual notes easily - some (like me) dont.

Some people (like me) are complete tarts and just love getting the room singing - for that you need the persistence to learn a couple of (or even three) chords. And the resolve to sit through episodes of Inspector Morse, with your fingers holding down the G chord, the D7 and if you're really serious the C chord as well.

Also ( a guilty secret) even on your own - you can fantasise a roomful of singers, or fiddlers and concertina players if you learn tunes in your head.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: voyager
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:48 PM

1st recollection of guitar instruction at the age of 16 - a room full of 100 people at UCLA (LA, CA) playing Libba Cotton's Freight Train. 50 years later, the train is still moving (own 4 guitars and play nightly).

Stories and Songs
voyager

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 05:08 PM

playing freight train is melody picking with fingers thumb uses basses basse, its easiest i find in c, yes i know libba cooten played upside down most people find it easiest to use conventionalpicking with index and middle playing melody
.the other way of picking with thumb is also easy in c and g ,
in c the melody falls through the chords, start with c 5 string3 fret then d open4 string, then e 4 string 2nd fret, then little finger let hand on 4 string 4 fret, then open3 string,then 3 string2nd fret then open 2 string,then 2 string first fretthen 2 string3rd fret little finger of left hand then open 1 string then first stringfirst fret then first string 3rd fret you have played an octave and a half of c majorscale cdefgabc defg.dovan talks about this style on you tube it isbased on the playing of maybelle carter, if you dont use a finger pick it is necessary to use hammering on and pulling off to get some half notes.
pfr, feel free to strum but AKE mentioned picking melody. playing in g is same pattern as c but one string lower

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 05:25 PM

Sandman - strum...??? where'd ya get that from...???

I play with a plectrum, mostly single or double note palm muted riffs...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:38 AM

fine, enjoy yourself

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 04:18 AM

Sandman - sort yourself out, why are you in such a negative bossy mood...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 05:44 AM

Sandman - and.. you make yourself look a bit of a nit going off on one on your high horse,
when you didn't even read properly in context
my innocuous casual comment which you have taken exception to...

baffling...???

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Nick
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:31 AM

"I only want to improve a little,"

This may be too obvious but playing a guitar like anything is an enormously vast thing.

1 Decide what an achievable goal is that would demonstrate your small improvement
2 If you have a digital camera or a recording device record your first effort(s)
3 Work out what it is that you need to achieve your goal. I'm sure if you posted on here "I'm really struggling to work out how to do X' people would help and offer advice (I'm currently doing a similar thing in a new area of photography that I'm struggling to achieve what I want and people are enormously helpful)
4 Practice the bits that are hard rather than the bits that you already know and do well and play them S-L-O-W-L-Y until they are easier and your fingers remember them
5 At some point when you judge you are getting there (if you are really focused you might have put a time limit on it - eg someone asked me yesterday to play a song for them in a weekly session I go to. So I will learn it and play it next Monday and that's good for me to do something measurable and achievable. And I learn a new song) then repeat point #2 above and compare
6 Pat yourself on the back and smile
7 Move onto next project

I record a lot of what I do by myself and with others. Not for others but for me/us to have a benchmark rather than a perceived memory that may not quite reflect reality.

As an aside I once recorded a gig in a rock/covers band I played in. The singer knew that I did and was sure that her performance was brilliant and asked if I could send a copy. It wasn't - she was out of tune most of the night. Difficult decision... So it was the one time that my recorder malfunctioned. I don't mind being critical of me but I reckoned it would not have helped in the particular instance (rightly or wrongly)

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:38 AM

The “pattern playing” guitar style - which has been mentioned in this thread -( we used to call it clawhammer back in the 1960s) is a useful and attractive style for playing accompaniments and melodies.

This is the style that is/was used on “Streets of London” , “ Dylan’s “ Don’t Think Twice” and even a young Martin Carthy used it on “Lord Franklin”.

This is not really a pure beginners style and I would suggest that players should be able to move smoothly between basic chords before tackling this style.

Now, I would start learning this style by isolating the picking hand.
Now I refer to this style as the “rocking thumb style” because the picking hand thumb alternates between different lower ( bass ) strings.
I would describe the basic rhythm of this style as One Two and Three and Four where 1,2,3,4, fall on the beat. Of course, when players becomes proficient at the style they can then throw in what they like.

I start teaching this style by isolating the steady “ rocking” thumb movement.

1   ---------------------------------------------
2   ---------------------------------------------
3   ---------------------------------------------
4   ---------------0-------------------0-------
5   ---------------------------------------------
6   ------0-----------------0------------------
count    1       2         3          4


Then I would introduce/add the index finger to the third string on the “and” of two.

1 -------------------------------------------------------
2 ------------------------------------------------------
3 ------------------------0-------------------------------
4   ----------------0-----------------------------0-----------
5 ---------------------------------------------------------
6   ------0---------------------------0----------------------
Count    1         2    and         3          4


Finally, I would add the second string on the and after three. ( using - in my case - my second finger picking hand

1 -----------------------------------------------------------------
2 -----------------------------------------------------------------
3 -----------------------0---------------0--------------------------
4 ---------------0---------------------------------0----------------
5 ---------------------------------------------------------------
6   ----0-------------------------0------------------------------------
Count   1       2       and      3       and       4

.
Tapping your foot on the beat ( i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4), and saying the
rhythm of the notes as you are playing should help.
I would strongly recommend that players make
sure that they are rock solid at each stage before moving on.

I hope all the tab lines up!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Nick
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:39 AM

And I still reiterate and wholeheartedly agree with Big Al when he says

"i think its just nice meeting other guitar players. i certainly owe my love of the instrument to the joy of meeting other people , watching what they do: saying how did you do that: i'd love to play that song - will you show me?; and just the fun of it all."

I played with someone much better than me and we would noodle round on tunes and songs. And he would say 'do you know this one?' and launch into things. And I would join in and play things. Sometimes he'd stop and say 'what did you there when I was doing x?' and that is for me what a lot of the fun is.

Reminded that we once played 4 different versions of the Star of the County Down as we were playing and had different ideas (standard version/upbeat version/one with different chord structure/classical tinged version). Happy times.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:49 AM

Well, it didn't line up and the note on the "and" of three should be on the second string. Hope anyone interested can sort it out.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:52 AM

"And I still reiterate and wholeheartedly agree with Big Al when he says

"i think its just nice meeting other guitar players. i certainly owe my love of the instrument to the joy of meeting other people , watching what they do: saying how did you do that: i'd love to play that song - will you show me?; and just the fun of it all."

I played with someone much better than me and we would noodle round on tunes and songs. And he would say 'do you know this one?' and launch into things. And I would join in and play things. Sometimes he'd stop and say 'what did you there when I was doing x?' and that is for me what a lot of the fun is."

I'm in absolute, 100% Agreement with Al and Nick - I've been playing since I was 14, I'm 71 now, and I've always played frequently with others - even now I still play in a four-piece band and I'm always learning, exactly as Nick describes, from the other members. Absolutely the way for an aspiring guitarist to improve, and far quicker than trying to figure stuff out yourself (although that too has its own rewards).

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 06:52 AM

Ake - my advice... don't get too strung up on the 'mechanics' of guitar playing technique...
More importantly, keep your thoughts full of music, live with a musical soundtrack constantly in your head...

Obviously health and safety dictates you should stay a bit more focused on the immediate job when high up on a roof...

But otherwise keep your thoughts musical..

Then when you pick up a guitar you are primed and inspired for naturally feeling what you want to play...
you can just get into it and enjoy having a go - mistakes and all...

Frustration at not hitting tehnique targets can eventually lead to a kind of mental paralysis that stops folk
wanting to pick up a guitar ever again...

This is no new age Jedi feel the force bollox.. it does help...

For the last few days my head has been full of reggae bass lines,
which actually influences my present demeanour, even how I walk arond the house...
Last night I had a really good enjoyable half hour random work out on an unplugged semi-acoustic guitar..

Btw.. too many unmusical people think they can learn an instrument just by copying technique by rote...

They are usually dull to listen to, and a bore to play with...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:03 AM

Well, the basics of "Pattern playing " are best - I would suggest- learned by rote BUT also, and very importantly, listening to good examples of the style is essential for getting a solid feel for the style.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:06 AM

To back up what I mean...

20 years ago I trained slavishly in a gym owned by a champion body builder,
afte a few weeks he took me to one side and tried to explain why I was getting nowhere and wasting time and energy.

He told me to just relax, visualise the target I wanted to achieve, and 'feel' each exercise...
I thought he was talking bollox he must have picked up from an airhead Californian muscle magazine...
Until, a short time later, it just clicked, and I realised the genuine value of his advice...

He was afer all a champion,
and I was just an ordinary bloke trying to get a beer belly and office worker's arse back in shape...

Under his mentoring I ended up with a body almost like a middle weight boxer when I was 40...

His approach to being in the right mindset did the trick...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM

Well, look at learning to play " pattern playing" as a problem solving exercise. Faced with that scenario, I would break down the problem in to its component parts...which is exactly the approach I am suggesting.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:26 AM

Surely pattern picking is more accompaniment than melody playing. To inject the melody you have to introduce pinching, playing two strings at once, with thumb and finger, since the melody notes normally occur on the beat and in pattern picking the fingers are filling in in between the beats. However, I agree it is a great foundation or springboard for then going on to playing melody, as long as you can regularly break away from the repetitive pattern with the fingers, not thumb, to follow the contours of the tune. Patience is needed though because that can’t be mastered overnight.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmth
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:32 AM

As stated, what I have shown is the BASIC style used for accompaniments.
Take the"Street of London". What I have shown could be used to accompany the song ( with appropriate chords and string choice), but to play the melody extra notes - and the use of hammering on - would have to added.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,PFR on his mobile in the bathroom
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:32 AM

Tunesmith - a healthy combination of both our approaches is an obvious advantage..

I long ago got fed up with pub blues jams
Where blokes with loadsamoney
posed vainly with brand new top end American guitars
playing endless stiff patterns of the 5 blues licks they had learned off a tutorial dvd...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 08:22 AM

One of the ways I approach playing a tune on the solo guitar is to start by establishing the chord sequence and getting that fixed in my head. Then I work out where the melody line goes on the fretboard, which is followed by playing chords or variations on chords from the sequence which underpin the melody.

Mostly I do this by ear, but sometimes I'll go back to the sheet music, if it exists - just to make sure my memory isn't at fault. (I have a sheet music archive of about 5,000 songs/tunes covering from roughly the 1880s to the late 1950s).

Having got the melody and worked out the appropriate chords or part chords, I then put the two together. This is the key process and can be very complex or very simple, depending on the tune and the approach to playing the tune. One key point I've learned over the years that complex tunes don't necessarily need full, 6-string, complex chords. Sometimes, just a pair of strings, or a moving bass string can provide enough substance to accompany the tune without running your fingers ragged!

The crucial bit - if you want to play in this style, of course - to get your fingers moving up and down freely on the fretboard, is to get to know simple inversions of basic chords. Here's an example from my YouTube videos - and I've included it, not because I recommend playing it, but because it demonstrates how a reasonably chord sequence and melody line can mesh together without too much strain:

Will FLy: The Tennessee Waltz

If anyone should want to try it, there's a free file for it here - music, tab, chords.

All this can work for traditional tunes as well as more popular stuff.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 09:10 AM

At the risk of going on and on about the stuff in my previous post, here's a graphic lesson in fitting melody to chords, which I posted on YouTube in 2011. It uses chord diagrams to demonstrate fingering:

How to Play St. James Informary Blues

Once again, just a demo of the technique, with music available here.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 09:12 AM

Will, that is very nice rendition, but I would say that pattern playing - as I understand the style - only works in 4/4 time because in that time signature players can add stresses - mainly on the off beat - to certain notes which gives the style its characteristic lilt.
BTW, Bert Jansch was the master of this style and just a listen to "The Needle of Death" will demonstrate Bert's beautiful use of unexpected chords (e.g. in the key of A, the way he uses a E added 2nd chord).

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 11:30 AM

I understand - I was really trying to make the point that there might be alternative ways to approach the guitar other than patterns. Nothing wrong with patterns, by the way - just that, if you start with them, then it's sometimes difficult to progress to fitting in a melody. :-)

I've dealt with both sides of that coin with separate instructional videos on fitting chords to melodies and learning basic patterns!

One thing I soon found out when teaching is that, as far as learning/teaching is concerned, one size doesn't fit all - people can learn in very different ways, and it's up to the teacher to find the right way. That's why I always preferred 1-2-1 teaching, rather than group teaching.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM

Will, I once did some night school guitar classes back in the 1980s and the first night was a nightmare with 25 or so out of tune guitars ( and this was in the days before electronic tuners!).
I agree that, when it comes to any teaching, one size doesn't fit all; indeed, when I trained to be a primary school teacher that " one size doesn't fit all" message was almost like a sort of mantra.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 12:04 PM

I share your nightmare! One of the problems with YouTube instructional vidoes is that - as we know - one size doesn't fit all. Which is why I've, over the years, tried to present different aspects of the same theme. Some go well, others not so well.

The oddest comment I ever got was from an American who said he couldn't understand my English accent! Well really... :-)

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 12:33 PM

It probably should also be pointed out that it is a lot easier to combine chords with melody lines when you transcribe the song to a key where the chords are more amenable to that style of picking. In particular, the keys of G, C, D and A, plus Em, Am, Dm, then E and Bm when you get more proficient, are the easiest to find the melody notes with since the first inversion chords tend to have open strings in them, which themselves make up some of the melody notes you need.

It’s not that difficult to adapt to playing songs in 3/4 time, but yes 4/4 songs are best suited to that style. However, some melodies just fit their chord sequences better than others, eg Streets of London compared to (struggling here) say Leaving on a Jet Plane, but you shouldn’t be afraid to try substitute chords or partial ones as mentioned above. Interestingly, rock guitarists and the like tend to belittle this style of playing, possibly because it relies on much use of the beginners’ cowboy chords, but ask them to actually play a recognisable tune, as opposed to a riff, and they often don’t know where to start.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 12:54 PM

"Interestingly, rock guitarists and the like tend to belittle this style of playing, possibly because it relies on much use of the beginners’ cowboy chords, but ask them to actually play a recognisable tune, as opposed to a riff, and they often don’t know where to start."

GUEST,Jerry - why does it yet again have to be a black & white opposition of 'us v them'...???

Me and my mate started off more than 45 years ago teaching ourselves guitar
by learning "Hank Marvin & the Shadows" tunes off old LPs...

That's how we worked out for ourselves that he was better at lead, and I was the better rythm guitarist..

..and how we fell into those well established roles in our school 'proto punk bands',
and later work together playing electro synth new wave, rock n roll, and punky folkie skiffle...


Also, there's no need to be absolutist about enjoying music...
Cowboy chords can have immense dramatic power in rock...

Look at successful pro session guitar players,
even the average ones can cope well with most styles of playing...

Why do folks need to make a conflict out of everything...???

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:00 PM

... and... errrmmmm... define 'rock guitarists'...

There's arguably more different styles and genre's than even 'folk' at mudcat...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:04 PM

Imteresingly, Mark Knopfler - who served part of his music apprenticeship in UK folk clubs- draws upon the pattern playing approach now and again.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:19 PM

Ake - my advice... don't get too strung up on the 'mechanics' of guitar playing technique...

My advice would be rather the opposite.

More importantly, keep your thoughts full of music, live with a musical soundtrack constantly in your head.

My advice would NOT be very opposite! ;-)

On the subject of classical technique... Classical music is not the be all & and end all, nor is good technique. But, to be brief ("Oh yes I can!"), there are many fine players of whatever instrument with poor technique. But better or good technique will always allow you to get closer to reaching your full potential. Again, whatever the skill. Poor technique inhibits what you can do, better technique gives you more freedom. If my memory serves, there was a chap here, a decade or so ago, who had questions about playing & singing guitar at the same time. My first question was about his posture. If you're hunched over your guitar, you're surely restricting your ribcage, and you'll either be singing into the floor, or cricking your neck back to look at / engage with your audience. All will affect your ability to sing.

And here's another more extreme one. One of my handful of teachers (yes I was willing to go & pay for lessons to improve) told me a story of a student (not sure if it was one of his) who kept passing out. It was eventually worked out that when she was concentrating hard, she held her breath... Yes, to THAT extent!

Utterly unaware of it, she'd keel over. Once she knew about it... I'm blessed by way of being VERY self-aware. I know where my arms & legs & fingers are (this is not so daft as it sounds - have a think about it next time you're playing); I know where I'm tense & where I'm not; I can watch someone else doing something & I will automatically attempt to copy them (don't ask me about the Tai Chi classes I briefly attended in my youth! :o ).

If you have the knack of self-awareness & of visual learning, it's a wonderful adjunct to any physical skill (total rubbish when it comes to cerebral skills; can't paint, draw, blah...). It's not that you should get strung up on the 'mechanics', as pfr puts it. But better technique absolutely DOES allow you more freedom to develop.

And, as I've already said, always have fun. Always allow yourself to giggle, or at least roll your eyes, at your latest cock-up. Reduces frustration levels no-end!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:49 PM

..and alternate sitting, and standing [with a guitar strap]
just for a change of posture and attitude...

.. as sciatica, arthritis, and piles, permit..

yes even folkies can stand in front of a a mirror in the privacy of their own bedroom
doing a 'Pete Townshend' or a 'Jimi Hendrix'...

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 01:53 PM

What's interesting about the tab that I posted above is that I have written it out in three stages and with 90% plus of my pupils they have no trouble with stage one ( I total beginner should be able to do that!)
Stage two ( where the index finger is introduced) usually causes no problems BUT, stage three where the note on the "and" of beat three is added has caused all sorts of problems.
    Counting the rhythm of the notes - away from the guitar - helps. Even playing each half of the bar separately seems to help some i.e.
A) 1 2 and
B) 3 and 4
then joining the two halves together.
And, of course, don't rush! " Nice and easy does it every time" as Dostoevsky once said!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:31 PM

I thought that was what the bishop said to the actress, Tunes! Or was it the other way around... :o

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:39 PM

I believe that Dostoevsky identified himself as a bishop!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:43 PM

:o :o :o Then who said which to whom? I think we should be told!! ;-)

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 03:58 PM

Sorry if I introduced conflict there, but I too have played in rock bands, as it happens, and long enough to know that they have a different (neither better nor worse) approach to playing. I admire their prowess at soloing, use of killer riffs and use of chord extensions, etc, but as you say cowboy chords can often work just as well. However, I have always been aware of a little condescension by those with the ‘high end American guitars’ (your words) towards those of us who play acoustic instruments (before they became cool again in recent years) and those of us who play fingerstyle, as if both are really only for nerds.

This condescension also comes through in the guitar magazines, where articles regularly claiming to demystify fingerstyle playing, and helping you ‘find your inner folkie self’, are usually penned by experts on electric guitar playing, but who give the wrong impression that it’s no more than playing repetitive picking patterns, and actually not worth bothering with anyway, unless you want to play nursery rhymes and those twee folk songs you were made to sing at school. Ironically, if you work through the two solos in Sultans of Swing, often cited as the best rock solos of all time, you will find that much of it is standard fingerstyle and chord arpeggios anyway.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 07:38 PM

i love guitar magazines, music magazines, folk music ones occasionally....but they really are the land of the lost.

Once you start believing the shite, or trying to learn even basic facts ....you're on a walking holiday from which few return.

They are STRICTLY for entertainment.


You can always spot the lost ones...they're a bit like those guys who talk about footballers being architects of the modern game.

The reason folk music is called folk music is not because its in some dire museum. Its because its our music - living sentient folks - outside of the education system with all its structures, career opportunities and crap like that. Its one on one. I learned a lot from Stefan Grossman's first tuition album, because I'd seen him and 'got him'. Unfortunately I've got a wall full of his dvds that I've learned sod all from.

Once it gets impersonal - you're pretty much fucked.

Has anyone ever learned about a product from a review in a music paper?

The best guitars you buy are always the ones you've tried out.

The further the real folk recede. THe sooner the problems start.

I'm trying to spice up my blues playing at the moment with more exciting lead stuff. Even with over fifty years experience - its really hard looking for usable information.

So in conclusion Ake - from the sound of it tab is a way down the road. It will give you the notes for your tune. But you will need to learn first the tune from a player, so that you have the rhythm in your head.

I'd say
1) look through what you know. is there a tune that you like.
2) listen to several artists playing it - folk tunes always have differences in the way different folk playing them. sometimes huge differences in tempo - and even in the notes.

3) Get the tab from wherever you can, if you can't find someone to help you - that you are sympatico with. some teachers are arseholes - my way, or no way....

4) before you start check the tab. some have the bass strings on top, some have the bass strings at the bottom.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 02:27 AM

tab is useful but the best way to learn in my opinion is by ear, tab is only a guide beyond that lies interpreation and adjusting of tab., piedmont style is also good but in my opinion more difficult .I xplained the easiest way to pick out tunes.
will fly do you have any videos of playing melody with thumb which i think ake might find useful since he wants to play pipE tunes, YOUR VIDEOS ARE EXCELLENT

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 03:24 AM

Pattern picking was mentioned earlier [ I DO NOT SEE HOW IT HELPS AKE], the alternating bass is only a start and tends to restrict to 4/4 tempo, the next step is to think about putting basses off the beat a little like bill broonzy and using single string bass to provide variety from the predictab ilty of alternate bass, howewver this styleis not the easiest .
thumb melody with thumb pick or flatpicking with plectrum is easier for scots pipe tunes, i suggest looking up carter picking tutorial

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 03:34 AM

Well, if we are not going to confuse people, we need to have pretty clear definitions, and as far as I'm concerned pattern playing is based upon a strict alternating bass. Of course, once that steady bass is established in the listeners mind, variations can be added.
In the UK, "The Streets of London" is probably the best known example of pattern playing.
    T would NOT recommend this style for playing Celtic tunes.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 03:41 AM

If we're back to tab, then maybe the book by Duck Baker with Stephan Grossman and Renbourne is the way forward. If it has a CD which I think it has, you can listen while looking at the tab. And you know you like his playing. There's quite a lot of celtic Baker material on Grossman's web site. I have found Grossmans' tab books useful in the past.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 03:42 AM

i agree tune smith , ake is asking for help for scots tunes, thumb using jhammer and pulls or thumb pick or plrctrum

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 03:53 AM

The problem with starting to play tunes is knowing how to start - regardless of style or genre. Music dots? Tab? By ear? By sitting in front of someone who shows you what to do?

In the end it comes down to finding the right notes on the fretboard by some means or other. Not everyone can read music, understand tab or have a retentive ear. Once that basic problem has been tackled, progress can be made.

Dick, I can't recall, offhand, if I've done anything with just thumb. I'll have to go back in time and remind myself. Thanks for the kind words about the videos, though I know from experience that you can't please all the people all the time!

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 04:01 AM

The problem learning from Duck (whom I got to know quite well when I put on a local concert of his playing some years ago) is that he has very long fingers. So, he tends to anchor his thumb around the fretboard and move it up or down for bass lines. It's an interesting and subtle technique, but almost impossible for poor buggers like me with normal hands to copy! You can see him do this on some YouTube videos.

Having said that, his "Kid On The Mountain" CD from, I think, 1969, was for me the first and most exciting recording of Scottish and Irish tunes to be produced, and very influential. He played "The Blackbird" at the concert, and it was still stunning 40 years after he recorded it.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 04:07 AM

And, of course, I should have said the most exciting record of Scottish and Irish tunes on steel string guitar.

Subject: RE: Playing the guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Sep 18 - 04:08 AM

100