BS: Germanys church child abuse

Subject: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 11:29 AM

I know that at least one mod will detest that I am bringing this subject up yet again but a report in today Guardian has coverage of child abuse in Germany. 1670 clerics have been implicated over a period from 1946 to 2014.

Could someone please link to the article "Shocking sexual abuse......."

Unsurprisingly most of the victims were young boys.

Are the various church ever going to get a grip on this abuse and ensure that the culprits are brought before the law?

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 12:06 PM

Well the Mormons are doing something about it. They just sacked the guy who blew the whistle in their creepy sexual interrogations of children. (You can't search below the line any more, so I couldn't find a thread to post in when I heard about it).

https://www.newsweek.com/mormon-bishop-sam-young-excommunication-sexually-explicit-children-interviews-1096856

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 01:22 PM

IS THIS THE ONE ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 03:26 PM

That's the one, Thanks Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:16 PM

It's hard to get newly outraged by yet another report of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. The numbers from Germany may not have come out until now, but I have expected for years that the number would be substantial. It surprises me that the Guardian article says the first case of sexual abuse in the Catholic church in Germany was uncovered about 10 years ago. I would have thought that it was known in the 1980s that this was a worldwide problem.

I have heard from a number of priests that they never knew of any sexual abuse at the time it was happening, and I believe them. This is a crime that is extremely difficult to detect, a crime that the victims often cannot report until years after it has happened. Without denying at all the seriousness and extent of these crimes, I am not convinced that anyone knows how to respond to them in a constructive manner. Just what can anyone do about a forty-year-old crime?

I am convinced that over the last 15 years, the Catholic Church has made honest efforts worldwide to prevent future instances. It appears that these efforts have been reasonably effective in reducing the numbers of these crimes.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:26 PM

Oh that easy Joe, in order to deal with a forty year old crime you prosecute the perpetrator and bang them inside.

I wouldn't suggest leaving their doors open though. It seems that even the prison inmates have their standards. These bastards wouldn't last five minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 04:39 PM

No doubt that those who committed crimes must be prosecuted and punished, but prosecutions of 40-yr-old crimes don't undo the damage. This frenzy of anger over old crimes has gone on for over 15 years now. First there was a demand for apologies, and now the apologies are so commonplace that they're meaningless. Preventive measures have been in place for years now, and they seem to be working. But still people want more. What's the next step?

Now they want the throat of Pope Francis. Francis hasn't responded perfectly, but I think he's trying to do his best in an impossible situation. He may not have believed all allegations the first time he heard them, but I don't think he has covered anything up once the evidence convinced him that allegations were true. To my mind, Francis is the last, best hope for the Catholic Church. Homophobic, conservative forces are using this crisis to bring him down, and I don't want to see that happen. I think Francis is trying his best to be honest and fair, and that's not a good way to make people happy.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 06:20 PM

Here in UK there is no Statute of Limitations for crimes above the level of Magistrate's Court. So even sexual abusers who committed offences many years ago can be prosecuted. 'Old' crimes are still crimes and should be punished.

It's not for the Church (of any denomination) to take action. It's a matter for the Police and the Courts of Law. Victims should approach Police with their accounts of what took place, whereupon the CPS will examine evidence and decide if a prosecution is possible.

However, on release from Prison, or after sentence has been pronounced, any sexual abuser should be expelled from the Church concerned. Any other approach would be seen as condoning the offences.

It is for the victim to 'forgive' or not, depending on their state of mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 07:19 PM

Joe, I'm not having a "go" at the pope. However there are a lot of people on a "lower" level who knew the truth and sought to hide the truth. They along with the perpetrators should also be brought to justice. That is irrespective of whether it was last week, last month or last decade. If anything they have a bigger responsibilty and they neglected to act upon it.

I am NOT having a go at the catholics like yourself who profess to the faith, that decision is entirely yours and basically nothing to do to me ........... unless your faith impinges upon me.

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 07:54 PM

"I am convinced that over the last 15 years, the Catholic Church has made honest efforts worldwide to prevent future instances."
Not enough Joe - the unprecedented anger surrounding the Pope's visit to Ireland proved that beyond a shred of doubt
The hierarchy here are now talking about "rebuilding the Catholic Church" but still the Vatican refuses to acknowledge the greater crime of covering up the abuses and allowing them to go on
As the 'Mea Maxima Culpa' film showed, they still refuse to reveal the names and details of those involve - the victims have a right to know that
The Church still attempts to wield its power on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage as if nothing has happened - on both occasions they were defeated
Churchmen are taking leading roles in opposing the result of the 'termination' issue and are still insisting on baptismal certificates in many of the schools they control
I never thought it woulde happen in my lifetime but I think I'll see the end of the estabished Catholic Church in Ireland -
Fra from the "few bad apples" you once claimed, it has turned out to be an international issue - Northern Ireland still refuses to hold an enquiry into what happened there
Your church is sinking in its own arroganvce, I'm afraid
Despite my feeling about the church and religion - it really shouldn't have happened like this
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 18 - 08:04 PM

For God's sake give these priests a jar of Vaseline!

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 02:48 PM

I have no answer to the what-to-do-about-it question.
The fact remains that,
if there is substance and fact documenting such heinous acts,
there are those who will leave no stone unturned until the documentation is reported on.
So sooner or later this stuff, however long veiled in silence,
will be spoken of, reported, and revealed.
And since this thread references Germany, here's the latest from PBS about
the Catholic church in Munich, which demanded an investigation --
and the report from the law firm that did the investigating.

Former pope's inaction on childhood sexual abuse -- 20 January 2022

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: MudGuard
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 05:41 PM

In Germany the prosecution of sexual abuse of children is limited to 5 up to 30 years (depending on the exact crime) starting from the time of crime.

Thus, 40 year old cases can't be prosecuted any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 02:30 PM

A statement has been issued to the press on Benedict's behalf by his secretary,
Archbishop Georg Ganswein.

Benedict response to abuse report from Munich and Freising

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 03:31 PM

The title of this thread is a good example of the modern tendency to make bad things worse.

Why Germany's abuse? Did every German do it? No. Did the government pass a law permitting it? No. So why make it seem like the millions of German are somehow guilty?

And "church" child abuse. Is every kind of church involved? No. Did every kind of person in a church (minister, music director, janitor, member, child in Sunday School) commit a crime? No.

But that's modern thinking for you. Find something bad and make it go as far as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Germanys church child abuse
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 10:09 PM

The German periodical Die Zeit published an extensive report,
dated 4 January 2022, concerning the questions about Benedict XVI
and abuse in the diocese of Munich and Freising.

Today, news updates in German about public reaction to this story
have headlines saying things like

"Everyone bites down fast ['fest', as in hold fast] on Papst Benedikt."
(Die Tagespost, a Catholic news source)

Cardinal Reinhard Marx (a relatively youthful and progressive Cardinal, for Germany) was willing to resign, but Pope Francis put a stop to it, insisting that Cardinal Marx remain on the job.

However, a prelate named Lorenz Wolf who was judicial vicar for the diocese of Munich and Freising, will resign all of his posts.